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UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Old Apr 11th 2013, 9:29 am
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Default Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Originally Posted by Amazulu View Post
Countries that have a small, wealthy elite and a massive impoverished population are always going to be challenging places to live. Look at South Africa. Many people lead luxurious, priviledged lives with amazing homes, cars, maids, top schools etc. But they do so at huge personal cost - the constant threat of violent crime, the need for drastic security, discrimination etc.

Parts of South America have narco-terrorists, Shining Path, violence, kidnapping, lack of freedom of speech and so on. Asia does seem to fare better though.

UK and Australia, as true western democracies are better places to raise children, with Australia the pick of the 2.
I don't often agree with you Zulu, but on this one I wholeheartedly do. Having lived in central Africa I know first hand the stress of living in a country where 95% of population is impoverished. Doesn't matter how many maids you have, living in a peaceful and democratic society is priceless.
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 9:47 am
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Thumbs up Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Originally Posted by Budawang View Post
I don't often agree with you Zulu, but on this one I wholeheartedly do. Having lived in central Africa I know first hand the stress of living in a country where 95% of population is impoverished. Doesn't matter how many maids you have, living in a peaceful and democratic society is priceless.
Undoubtedly. Some more of my thoughts based on a mate of mine who was a diplomat in Argentina and got around Latin America:

Just another point - although there is poverty and crime, it is possible to live in areas that are really quite nice where you see very little poverty and am not looking out for it. These places rival London, Paris - it's rather surprising. Also swathes of people are more than happy to provide a sort of service class of help for more money than they would earn on the street and receive benefits in kind. The difference seems that in SA there is a sort of fundamental division based on racial divisions and tension whereas it almost seems in Latin America there is a sort of 3rd world class system whereby the havenots seem to live with the haves. I spoke to the maids etc and they were more than happy to live in with what we would see as a professional middle class family. It was almost as if they had already experienced social mobility by the very fact and were content.

When I visited, I spent a lot of time looking over my shoulder then realised I was spending far too much effort in doing so. And it all felt surprisingly safe -in the right areas of course...of course Catholicism seems to help too!

Last edited by BadgeIsBack; Apr 11th 2013 at 9:51 am.
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 10:55 am
  #78  
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Default Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

I can not comment on the qualtiy of the education system in Australia, but i can comment on the quality in the UK.

I'm doing a PhD in child language in the UK currently and I'm constantly in schools throughout the last 4 years (last year degree, masters and previous 2 years on my PhD). I also work with a a lot of colleagues in the child language area who are also constantly in schools and also part of the UK wide Welcome project. So i have a fair bit of knowledge of the current UK school system.

Without going into a massive essay i'll try and be brief.

The UK schooling system is all out rote learning. Rote learning is learning through being told how to learn and through repetition.

For example:

Teacher: Today we'll do the 2 times table, repeat after me. 2x2=4 etc etc

This is rote learning and repetition. This in MY OPINION is a horrible way of teaching children to learn, giving them enthusiasm for learning and the skills to learn them selves is something that is vastly more important.

The UK schooling system is currently heavily over subscribed, so a 40-50 child class is quite common place. This creates situations where you have children of a lower age and intelligence that hold back the more education children and older children, like wise the younger kids struggle as they are sometimes put into classes a year ahead of the development.

The classrooms move at a static pace rather then based on the child's learning needs, so if a child is unable to write a short story towards the end of the year, the teacher is told to create a situation where that child can fulfil that category to "tick the box" essentially, so the learning is put on hold to help the school move the child.

For me and my family the UK schooling system is something we fear and are scared of and while I'm not saying that Australia's schooling is better or worse, i know of a school in Australia that will provide the education system we want for our children and that's one of the driving forces behind our move.

In the end it is all down to personal opinion and how interested you are in how your children are taught.

Disclaimer: This is my opinion based on what i have witnessed within the UK schooling system and should only be taken as an opinion and not as actual scientific fact.
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 11:53 am
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Default Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Originally Posted by new-leaf View Post
I can not comment on the qualtiy of the education system in Australia, but i can comment on the quality in the UK.

I'm doing a PhD in child language in the UK currently and I'm constantly in schools throughout the last 4 years (last year degree, masters and previous 2 years on my PhD). I also work with a a lot of colleagues in the child language area who are also constantly in schools and also part of the UK wide Welcome project. So i have a fair bit of knowledge of the current UK school system.

Without going into a massive essay i'll try and be brief.

The UK schooling system is all out rote learning. Rote learning is learning through being told how to learn and through repetition.

For example:

Teacher: Today we'll do the 2 times table, repeat after me. 2x2=4 etc etc

This is rote learning and repetition. This in MY OPINION is a horrible way of teaching children to learn, giving them enthusiasm for learning and the skills to learn them selves is something that is vastly more important.

The UK schooling system is currently heavily over subscribed, so a 40-50 child class is quite common place. This creates situations where you have children of a lower age and intelligence that hold back the more education children and older children, like wise the younger kids struggle as they are sometimes put into classes a year ahead of the development.

The classrooms move at a static pace rather then based on the child's learning needs, so if a child is unable to write a short story towards the end of the year, the teacher is told to create a situation where that child can fulfil that category to "tick the box" essentially, so the learning is put on hold to help the school move the child.

For me and my family the UK schooling system is something we fear and are scared of and while I'm not saying that Australia's schooling is better or worse, i know of a school in Australia that will provide the education system we want for our children and that's one of the driving forces behind our move.

In the end it is all down to personal opinion and how interested you are in how your children are taught.

Disclaimer: This is my opinion based on what i have witnessed within the UK schooling system and should only be taken as an opinion and not as actual scientific fact.
Yes...it your opinion...not fact
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 11:54 am
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Default Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Originally Posted by Grayling View Post
Yes...it your opinion...not fact
I was wondering when this young, naive person would be picked up!

I'm wondering if it's better in Australia or it just happens there is some sort of Steiner school etc in the area the poster is moving to....

People do sometimes say that primary school ed in Australia is a little less daunting and more about building confidence....no idea if it's fact, and it's not my opinion...
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 11:55 am
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Default Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Originally Posted by BadgeIsBack View Post
I was wondering when this young, naive person would be picked up!
Indeed
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 11:57 am
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Default Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Originally Posted by Grayling View Post
Indeed
You sod, you! Still! maybe they will elaborate more on the school they have in mind.
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 12:05 pm
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Default Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Originally Posted by new-leaf View Post

This is rote learning and repetition. This in MY OPINION is a horrible way of teaching children to learn, giving them enthusiasm for learning and the skills to learn them selves is something that is vastly more important.[/SIZE]
The funny thing is that the only stuff I can actually remember from school is the stuff that was imparted to me via rote learning - French verbs written and repeated, etc. The "discover the world yourself" stuff was how maths and science was taught and I can't remember any of it. When I learn things now (currently learning two languages) I deliberately teach myself via rote learning to make sure it sticks.
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 12:13 pm
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Default Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Originally Posted by new-leaf View Post
This is rote learning and repetition. This in MY OPINION is a horrible way of teaching children to learn, giving them enthusiasm for learning and the skills to learn them selves is something that is vastly more important.
It's a tried, tested and proven way of learning. And there is nothing particularly horrible about it either. If it was left to six year olds to decide for themselves whether they want to learn or play in the sandpit well guess what..

It is all these crackpot ideas about education, like letting children "choose to learn" that has led to the deterioration of standards in recent decades.
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 12:19 pm
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Default Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Originally Posted by Bermudashorts View Post
It's a tried, tested and proven way of learning. And there is nothing particularly horrible about it either. If it was left to six year olds to decide for themselves whether they want to learn or play in the sandpit well guess what..

It is all these crackpot ideas about education, like letting children "choose to learn" that has led to the deterioration of standards in recent decades.
This rote business worked for me. Education fads: I learnt to read by recognising whole words but apparently some of the poor sods around had to learn by sounding out each word letter by letter...like a bunch of retards....

(I'll be f**ked if I know which way is better...which is why I am not ahem, a teacher).
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 12:23 pm
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Default Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Originally Posted by Zen10 View Post
The funny thing is that the only stuff I can actually remember from school is the stuff that was imparted to me via rote learning - French verbs written and repeated, etc.
Originally Posted by Bermudashorts View Post
It's a tried, tested and proven way of learning. And there is nothing particularly horrible about it either.
It depends on the student. For those who prefer to be taught by rote and find they achieve more that way, then chances are they are a formal learner. If the preferred method is more "hands on", and learning in a more "organic" rather than organised way then chances are they are an informal learner.

Personally, I lean more towards informal learning and lessons by rote would be a nightmare for me - and indeed were for those classes at school that went that way.

Neither way is right or wrong by themselves, they're just right or wrong for particular people. Unfortunately school is often a "one size fits all" approach, and this can be very unhelpful.
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 12:33 pm
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Default Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Originally Posted by roaringmouse View Post
It depends on the student. For those who prefer to be taught by rote and find they achieve more that way, then chances are they are a formal learner. If the preferred method is more "hands on", and learning in a more "organic" rather than organised way then chances are they are an informal learner.

Personally, I lean more towards informal learning and lessons by rote would be a nightmare for me - and indeed were for those classes at school that went that way.

Neither way is right or wrong by themselves, they're just right or wrong for particular people. Unfortunately school is often a "one size fits all" approach, and this can be very unhelpful.
Which is the same as the O Levels favouring boys and GCSEs favouring girls. One size fits all is not good enough, but it's all we're going to get.

Now, back to work....

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Last edited by Zen10; Apr 11th 2013 at 12:35 pm.
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 12:37 pm
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Default Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Originally Posted by Zen10 View Post
Which is the same as the O Levels favouring boys and GCSEs favouring girls. One size fits all is not good enough, but it's all we're going to get.
Although I was happy to be doing GCSEs rather than O levels - everything hanging on a final exam is my idea of educational torture!
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 12:41 pm
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Default Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Originally Posted by roaringmouse View Post
Although I was happy to be doing GCSEs rather than O levels - everything hanging on a final exam is my idea of educational torture!
I love the big final exam, everything riding on it!! Coursework on the other hand....
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Old Apr 11th 2013, 1:27 pm
  #90  
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Default Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures

Perhaps in primary school there is more of an emphasis on learning by rote but my 12 year old is developing really good critical analysis skills.
Both of my kids attend good schools. My son, in primary, is in a class of 29 - certainly nowhere near 40-50.
Maybe it's down to individual schools and teachers. Just like in Australia.
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