UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Apr 13th 2013, 7:17 am
#166
Bitter and twisted
Joined: Dec 2003
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Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by BadgeIsBack
I think it's a bit sh*t to be too pedantic about spelling on an internet forum.
Apr 13th 2013, 9:14 am
#167
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 401
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by BadgeIsBack
I think it's a bit sh*t to be too pedantic about spelling on an internet forum.
I would look at the overall text to gauge someone's literacy. I think it's clear that university standards are in decline.
In any case, angry people on the internet tend to have worn keyboards and space bars...
I would look at the overall text to gauge someone's literacy. I think it's clear that university standards are in decline.
In any case, angry people on the internet tend to have worn keyboards and space bars...
Originally Posted by Pollyana
It is also off-putting to many posters to find their posts criticised for the way they are written rather than the content. Lots of people are just generally less literate than others - and for many this is their first contact with any kind of public/internet writing. They are looking for help, and while its one thing for us "old lags" to bicker about grammar and spelling and can make us out as rather unfriendly to the newbies.
It can be beneficial at times - some of the non-native English speakers in particular do appreciate hints on language improvement, but its probably best done in a softer way rather than as a lecture!
Then you've got all the basic reasons for bad typing - my own is being too lazy to put my glasses on when typing on the iphone! We have dodgy keyboards, sticky keys, typing in a hurry, and simply not proof-reading before posting. Its not an English exam after all, and lets be honest if the majority of us were actually writing reports etc at work then we would be producing something in a very different style and manner from that which comes up when on a social media outlet
Having said that - its clear from browsing other forums that the standard on BE overall is oretty high in comparison!
It can be beneficial at times - some of the non-native English speakers in particular do appreciate hints on language improvement, but its probably best done in a softer way rather than as a lecture!
Then you've got all the basic reasons for bad typing - my own is being too lazy to put my glasses on when typing on the iphone! We have dodgy keyboards, sticky keys, typing in a hurry, and simply not proof-reading before posting. Its not an English exam after all, and lets be honest if the majority of us were actually writing reports etc at work then we would be producing something in a very different style and manner from that which comes up when on a social media outlet
Having said that - its clear from browsing other forums that the standard on BE overall is oretty high in comparison!
Apr 13th 2013, 9:35 am
#168
Lost in BE Cyberspace
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Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by Grayling
But not if the poster is complaining about the standard of written English in Universities
But I see that perhaps I am overruled: and have got my detector wrongly calibrated..
Originally Posted by Almo
I agree with you both completely but in this particular context the irony was too great.
Apr 13th 2013, 10:06 am
#169
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Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by Almo
I agree with you both completely but in this particular context the irony was too great.
yes, I do so the point there 
Mine's more of a kind of general comment after seeing a few other posts where newbies have got a bit offended
Apr 14th 2013, 2:43 pm
#170
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Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 280
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by new-leaf
I can not comment on the qualtiy of the education system in Australia, but i can comment on the quality in the UK.
I'm doing a PhD in child language in the UK currently and I'm constantly in schools throughout the last 4 years (last year degree, masters and previous 2 years on my PhD). I also work with a a lot of colleagues in the child language area who are also constantly in schools and also part of the UK wide Welcome project. So i have a fair bit of knowledge of the current UK school system.
Without going into a massive essay i'll try and be brief.
The UK schooling system is all out rote learning. Rote learning is learning through being told how to learn and through repetition.
For example:
Teacher: Today we'll do the 2 times table, repeat after me. 2x2=4 etc etc
This is rote learning and repetition. This in MY OPINION is a horrible way of teaching children to learn, giving them enthusiasm for learning and the skills to learn them selves is something that is vastly more important.
The UK schooling system is currently heavily over subscribed, so a 40-50 child class is quite common place. This creates situations where you have children of a lower age and intelligence that hold back the more education children and older children, like wise the younger kids struggle as they are sometimes put into classes a year ahead of the development.
The classrooms move at a static pace rather then based on the child's learning needs, so if a child is unable to write a short story towards the end of the year, the teacher is told to create a situation where that child can fulfil that category to "tick the box" essentially, so the learning is put on hold to help the school move the child.
For me and my family the UK schooling system is something we fear and are scared of and while I'm not saying that Australia's schooling is better or worse, i know of a school in Australia that will provide the education system we want for our children and that's one of the driving forces behind our move.
In the end it is all down to personal opinion and how interested you are in how your children are taught.
Disclaimer: This is my opinion based on what i have witnessed within the UK schooling system and should only be taken as an opinion and not as actual scientific fact.
I'm doing a PhD in child language in the UK currently and I'm constantly in schools throughout the last 4 years (last year degree, masters and previous 2 years on my PhD). I also work with a a lot of colleagues in the child language area who are also constantly in schools and also part of the UK wide Welcome project. So i have a fair bit of knowledge of the current UK school system.
Without going into a massive essay i'll try and be brief.
The UK schooling system is all out rote learning. Rote learning is learning through being told how to learn and through repetition.
For example:
Teacher: Today we'll do the 2 times table, repeat after me. 2x2=4 etc etc
This is rote learning and repetition. This in MY OPINION is a horrible way of teaching children to learn, giving them enthusiasm for learning and the skills to learn them selves is something that is vastly more important.
The UK schooling system is currently heavily over subscribed, so a 40-50 child class is quite common place. This creates situations where you have children of a lower age and intelligence that hold back the more education children and older children, like wise the younger kids struggle as they are sometimes put into classes a year ahead of the development.
The classrooms move at a static pace rather then based on the child's learning needs, so if a child is unable to write a short story towards the end of the year, the teacher is told to create a situation where that child can fulfil that category to "tick the box" essentially, so the learning is put on hold to help the school move the child.
For me and my family the UK schooling system is something we fear and are scared of and while I'm not saying that Australia's schooling is better or worse, i know of a school in Australia that will provide the education system we want for our children and that's one of the driving forces behind our move.
In the end it is all down to personal opinion and how interested you are in how your children are taught.
Disclaimer: This is my opinion based on what i have witnessed within the UK schooling system and should only be taken as an opinion and not as actual scientific fact.
I learnt the times table by rote and to this day - more than 40 years later - I know my times table by heart and do not have to work out what 9x9 or 12x8 etc is without having to work it out in my head first.
And how ridiculous to say you fear the UK schooling system. You are in for a hell of a shock if you think the Australian schooling system is any better. I speak as the mother of a 10-year-old son,who attends a public primary school. I have serious misgivings about how he is being taught.
By the way it is commonplace not common place, likewise not like wise and WHO not THAT in your sentence which begins: "This creates situations where you have children of a lower age and intelligence..."and the next few words don't make sense.
It might be wise to read back what you have written on a topic about schooling if you want to be taken seriously.
Apr 14th 2013, 3:41 pm
#171
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Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
The grammar on this forum is appalling.
Apr 14th 2013, 3:47 pm
#172
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Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by bra_boy
The grammar on this forum is appalling.
If it offends you, go elsewhere!
As I posted above there are many reasons why posts are not perfect - any more than the world is......
Apr 14th 2013, 3:55 pm
#173
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,396
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by bra_boy
The grammar on this forum is appalling.
Apr 15th 2013, 3:32 am
#174
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Location: Sydney
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Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by Pollyana
And that is a problem because....?
Apr 15th 2013, 5:43 am
#175
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,603
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Learning the timestable by rote is making a comeback in our VIC school. There is on average no more than 25 per class and about 4-5 classes per year level/composite. Our school uses a mix of the old school & new wave of teaching the children as it has been found that there's not one way which is correct for all the children involved. Thrass is being used to enhance spelling & this is one concept which is definitely worth looking at & embracing. There is also support & extension available for every child who requires it. I can't say which system is better ie UK vs Aus as even within Aus there is a big discrepancy between the different States in terms of education. It's a bit of a gamble but the main thing is, if your child is learning & happy to attend school, then you're on the right path
Apr 15th 2013, 1:34 pm
#176
Happy migrant
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Newcastle , NSW
Posts: 6,756
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by chris955
Im intrigued by the classes of 40-50 kids to be honest. There are 20 odd in our boys classes. I cant imagine 40 or 50 in a class would be common would it?
Legislation is in place to prevent class sizes of greater than 30 pupils to one teacher, so I'm not sure what that poster was referring to, unless these classes have more than one teacher. I know some schools have an "open plan" system where there are a lot of children in one room but they have several teachers. One of our local schools operates like this and is rated "outstanding" by Ofsted.
My son is in year 5 (primary) and there are 29 pupils in his class at the moment. The headteacher would like an extra one for the funding.
For that class size there is one qualified teacher and a teaching assistant. There are sometimes parent helpers and student teachers.
Edit to say: My kids have had to learn time tables and spellings by rote, which I think is essential.
My daughter is now in high school and there is more emphasis on critical thinking, which I also think is essential.
When I completed my Post Graduate studies at Exeter University in 2008, we were marked down if spelling and grammar wasn't up to scratch.
Last edited by Kapri; Apr 15th 2013 at 1:37 pm.
Apr 15th 2013, 2:16 pm
#177
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Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by paddyo
That is totally bang on!!!
Apr 15th 2013, 2:31 pm
#178
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Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by bra_boy
I think you can find the answer to that question if you read through this thread, from the first post to the last, and then reflect on them.
Apr 16th 2013, 1:17 am
#179
Proudly Deplorable
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Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by bra_boy
The grammar on this forum is appalling.
It don't matter
Apr 16th 2013, 1:29 am
#180
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Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Why do most people refer to the UK system of education when there is no UK system? The English system I assume covers England and Wales, I assume Northern Ireland has its own system and I know that there is the Scots system which is completely different to the others.
