UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
I know this is a big open question, but do you think that Australia offers our children a better future - ie in terms of employment and following the career path of their choice - in comparison to the UK?
My current opinion, based on the difficulties that I see my friends having with their 18-20 year old children, is that there are limited opportunities in UK and getting a start via a job or apprenticeship in their chosen field is impossible right now, which leaves them feeling dissapointed and demotivated. A friend who lives in the North East of UK has a daughter who is a qualified teacher. Her daughter has had to move to the outskirts of London to get a job and it's only a years temporary contract. Does the future look brighter in Australia - particularly Melbourne where we hope to be heading? |
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by Gill73
(Post 10638681)
I know this is a big open question, but do you think that Australia offers our children a better future
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Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
My daughters are still young - only 12 and 5 years old. We want to do what we can to give our girls the best opportunities we can so they have more chance of doing what they want to in their futures. I'm struggling to see how the UK can provide this but I appreciate we have a few years before we really have to worry. I fear that if we don't emigrate and our 5 year visa expires which closes the door to a move to Oz, I would then hate to see my daughters struggling in the UK.
My husband can't find work in the UK - despite being a time served, qualified mechanic. He has already been offered a role at BMW Melbourne even though we haven't set a date for leaving the UK. Are other people concerned with what the UK has to offer for their children's future? Do people in Australia have these concerns? |
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
If your OH has been offered a job, and can't get one in the UK, then I'd move. Your children are young enough to cope- DD was 12 when we came out, and is now in Y12. She is doing the IB, which gives her a better chance of getting into a uni in another country as it is an internationally recognised qualification, although she intends to do her undergrad at an Aussie uni, but sees herself later moving to Europe. Make the most of your visa. If it doesn't work out, and things in the UK improve, you can go back, but if you don't come out, then you are stuck with your OH being unemployed and all the austerity measures.
Australia is not a paradise, but atm it is doing better than the UK as far as the GFC is concerned- though with Labor in charge things are getting worse! Job opportunities for the young are also not that easy - most are employed on a casual basis, and permanent contracts are getting increasingly scarce. |
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
you've stated it, your hubby has no job and has the chance to come over. What visa will he be on? If it's a 457, it's only a temporary one so you need to figure out what it is you're coming on, etc. In terms of your children's needs, if you settle in a good area, you'll find good schools and this will allow your children to hopefully get decent jobs. The way the world is evolving at the moment, who knows what's going to happen next..... There are a lot of Brits in Aus with kids in the education system, so it must be okay. You can't think of everything and ensure everything is going to okay. Sometimes you just need to take the jump. At least you are lucky in having this website to come on to "chat" & find answers. There were many who came without ever finding similar websites.
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Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Currently my youngest daughter has just left school at 18.... she was born and bred here as were her siblings. All of them, and most importantly all of their peers that I saw at least, have all without fail left school with limitless horzions as far as belief in themselves were concerned.
So I think, Optimism for a bright future comes as standard amongst kids at least. Possibly a by product of the personal development that primary schools dwell on in the early years of schooling here as opposed to academic acheivement. Not sure what happens in the UK. . |
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by carolinephillips
(Post 10638961)
If your OH has been offered a job, and can't get one in the UK, then I'd move. .
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Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Australia
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Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by Amazulu
(Post 10639295)
Australia
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Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by renth
(Post 10639310)
Australia, especially if you get citizenship then when they are older they can choose the whole of the EU, Aus and NZ as places to work and live.
This is the key point in this thread - Maximising your options, not limiting them. Adding Australia and NZ to your potential work environments on top of the UK and EU will never hurt. That said - i would make sure that they also learn a European language. This will extend their opportunities even more. S |
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by renth
(Post 10639310)
Australia, especially if you get citizenship then when they are older they can choose the whole of the EU, Aus and NZ as places to work and live.
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Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Without a doubt, our kids have loads more opportunities for a very good life here in Aus. :thumbup:
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Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
...And the kids grow up better here too :thumbsup:
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Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by Gill73
(Post 10638681)
I know this is a big open question, but do you think that Australia offers our children a better future - ie in terms of employment and following the career path of their choice - in comparison to the UK?
A lot will also depend on what careers they want to follow. I used to work in emerging and high technology, but there are simply no jobs here in this sector. If they want to follow fine engineering, science or R&D, then I would recommend staying in the UK or trying to get to the US. I'm transitioning into change and project management roles now because of the abject lack of opportunities. Australia doesn't have a terribly diverse economy - some things are well supported - Civil Engineering, Mining, Accountancy and Dentistry, but there is very little representation for high technology and biological science/pharmaceuticals. S |
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
I agree with some of the posts thus far and would like to give my perspective as an Aussie (married to a English girl) with a young daughter, who has lived in Sydney for almost three years.
We decided to leave the UK in 2010 and give Sydney a try. We were both in jobs we didn't like and the economy in the UK then (as unfortunately now) was not doing very well. Pay freezes, no bonuses etc. We had also thought about moving to the country (Hampshire) rather than live in London, but chose against that option. To be honest the last three years have been a bit of a rollercoaster ride. The initial excitement of moving, the challenges and stress of finding work and somewhere to live, then settling in to your new life and trying to make new friends. My wife in particular struggled for the first two years. She took on a very stressful job (which unfortunately she came to hate!) and refused to accept that she was in Australia. She kept complaining about things and comparing it to the UK and felt really homesick at times as she missed a couple of close friends and her family. It has only been over the last six months that she has really calmed down and accepted that we are here, however long that may be. Living in Australia certainly has its pros. The economy is doing much better, and we are better off as a Family, in part due some generous middle class welfare that you don't get in the UK (in the form of the Childcare Rebate). We also have well paid professional jobs earning twice what we do in the UK. The weather obviously is warm and sunny and we have a relatively easy commute to work (45 minutes compared to an hour and a half in London). But Oz also has its downsides... Despite warmer and sunnier climes, the heat in Summer can become oppressive and in winter you really can freeze your t*ts off, as most houses here are not insulated to the degree they are in the UK. As has been mentioned many times, because people earn more here, you pay more for many things that are much cheaper in the UK. It really does boil down to price gouging by international supppliers in many cases. Aussies have only really cottoned on to being ripped off over the last 3-4 years due to the rise of internet shopping here! However, a more fundamental issue I think is being ignored is because things are doing OK, and have been for almost 20 years, I think there is a real sense of complacency in Australia, which reinforces the 'Oz is the greatest country in the world and nothing overseas could be better (particularly any comparison to the UK!). Despite the hardships that the UK is enduring, some of the changes that have been and are going to be made, should make the UK a better place in the future. Many Brits are inadvertantly branded as being 'Whingeing Poms' by some Aussies here, but expats are really are pointing out things that can be done better here. You could talk for hours comparing public transport infrastructure, politics, grocery shopping, mobile phone contracts...the list is a long one. As far as my family are concerned we are committed to Oz for another couple of years and will re-assess whether to return to the UK then. For now, we are making the most of it and doing a bit of travelling during holidays. One place my wife has grown to love is the Sunshine Coast, an hour north of Brisbane. She loves going up there for holidays at the beach, and it has really helped to change her perspective on some things about Oz. |
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by Chortlepuss
(Post 10639135)
I'd second this, although personally not sure that opportunities in Australia much better than UK for everyone - Your friend was lucky to get a temporary teaching role - Many experienced teachers struggle to get anything here. My daughter is training to be a nurse in Brisbane - graduate vacancies are being scaled back enormously and I do fear for her future. I'm sure there are some areas where the opportunities seem much greater (I'd have thought that engineers do much better in Oz than Uk). So depends what you do.....
You don't seem to have much to lose by going to Aus, OP, but you do seem quite anxious about trying again. |
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Doesn't really matter - they are both first world countries with similar problems and advantages. I don't think Australia particularly advantages or disadvantages kids - there is still youth unemployment, high rates of youth suicide and other mental health problems and many young Aussies can't wait to leave, quite a few never bother to return because they find life better elsewhere (one of mine left for a post-uni gap year ..... 11 years ago, and after his last holiday back to Aus says he can't imagine ever wanting to live there again because his future in UK is so much better - on the property ladder, married, career he loves, ease of travel abroad etc.)
Moving "for the kids futures" is the last thing I'd do - if you have a better opportunity or if you fancy an adventure then go for it. Be prepared that what you demonstrate to your kids is that they may then take their best opportunity which might be on the other side of the world from where you are! (That's not a bad thing, by the way, just something to bear in mind). Bottom line is that they shouldn't be comparatively disadvantaged. |
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Thank you for all the responses.
I am anxious about making the move again - we have a 5 year permanent residents return visa. However, I agree that by making the move again we would be giving our daughters to opportunity to live in UK, Australia or NZ. I just wish that the rate of exchange from GBP to AUD was better! When we moved to WA in 2008, the rate was 2.4. We would be mortgage free in Australia if the rate got to this again (as we currently are in the UK) but I can't see this happening in the near future - sadly...... I currently work full time in the UK in a job I really enjoy - but my husband can't find work. In WA, my husband was in work and I couldn't get a job! I'm worried that I will make the move to Oz again and I won't find work - but I think Melbourne will offer me more opportunities in the freight/logistics industry, where this didn't exist in WA. We both need to work in WA to manage financially. In the UK, my salary covers all of our costs so we are doing okay. I would hate to move to Oz, where we will need to get a mortgage, and then we end up in debt and struggling with money. This is the dilema I'm currently facing - while trying to weigh up the pros and cons of staying or emigrating - as you can see from the many questions I'm posting on here!! Another dilema is do we move now or do I wait for my daughter to complete her GCSE's here so we would end up moving in about 4 years? In one way, I can see she should have an Australian qualification so she can progress with her chosen career in Australia, but I worry that if we emigrate and then move back to the UK, how will a UK employer recognize her Australian qualification!!?! As I've typed the above, I realize I sound like a manic over worrier - maybe I am..... |
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by Gill73
(Post 10639693)
I currently work full time in the UK in a job I really enjoy - but my husband can't find work. In WA, my husband was in work and I couldn't get a job!
but I think Melbourne will offer me more opportunities in the freight/logistics industry, where this didn't exist in WA. We both need to work to manage financially... |
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
OK, I understand your dilemma a little more now. Without wishing to pry will you be able to support yourselves while you look for a job in Melbourne?
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Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
We would be able to support ourselves, but obviously that means eating into our savings pot, which we would want to use as a deposit on a house when we eventually buy.
I think we would arrive in Oz with around GBP250k so around AUD360,000. I love to work and have always been employed full time - apart from my time in WA. To live comfortably and to earn enough to apply for a mortgage evenually, we both need to work. |
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Australia = UK = Jobs = Opportunity. By the time your kids will be at a stage in their lives to look for work things will be different. The UK MAY be stronger, Australia may have had a catastrophic collapse in its Mining and Resources sectors......who knows.
I agree that if you have a GENUINE opportunity then all good, but this 'job offer from BMW' will not be concrete until a contract is signed and you have no immediate timeframe to do so. Finally.......your children. It is your role, responsibility to protect them, care for them and provide for them. But, do not worry for them on hypothetical scenarios years ahead. Live for now, build for now. Manic worrier.....er...yes :) |
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by Gill73
(Post 10639933)
We would be able to support ourselves, but obviously that means eating into our savings pot, which we would want to use as a deposit on a house when we eventually buy.
I think we would arrive in Oz with around GBP250k so around AUD360,000. I love to work and have always been employed full time - apart from my time in WA. To live comfortably and to earn enough to apply for a mortgage evenually, we both need to work. |
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by Gill73
(Post 10638928)
My daughters are still young - only 12 and 5 years old. We want to do what we can to give our girls the best opportunities we can so they have more chance of doing what they want to in their futures. I'm struggling to see how the UK can provide this but I appreciate we have a few years before we really have to worry. I fear that if we don't emigrate and our 5 year visa expires which closes the door to a move to Oz, I would then hate to see my daughters struggling in the UK.
My husband can't find work in the UK - despite being a time served, qualified mechanic. He has already been offered a role at BMW Melbourne even though we haven't set a date for leaving the UK. Are other people concerned with what the UK has to offer for their children's future? Do people in Australia have these concerns? Kids who are motivated at school and choose a career according to the employment market, as well as personal preference, seem to do well in Australia. Also, kids who are more oriented towards a trade and are prepared to work for the needed results in study and during their apprenticeship are also in a good position for their future. I only have anecdotal evidence re the UK, but one of my nieces in Liverpool is a qualified social worker, and she can't get a job in her field so is working full time at Pound Land. Having said all that, if a young person chooses to muck around at school and isn't too bothered about their future, then they won't do well no matter what country they're in. Hence my suggestion to consider the move in terms of the here and now. Good luck, I hope things go well for you whatever your decision :fingerscrossed: |
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by Gill73
(Post 10639693)
Thank you for all the responses.
I am anxious about making the move again - we have a 5 year permanent residents return visa. However, I agree that by making the move again we would be giving our daughters to opportunity to live in UK, Australia or NZ. I just wish that the rate of exchange from GBP to AUD was better! When we moved to WA in 2008, the rate was 2.4. We would be mortgage free in Australia if the rate got to this again (as we currently are in the UK) but I can't see this happening in the near future - sadly...... I currently work full time in the UK in a job I really enjoy - but my husband can't find work. In WA, my husband was in work and I couldn't get a job! I'm worried that I will make the move to Oz again and I won't find work - but I think Melbourne will offer me more opportunities in the freight/logistics industry, where this didn't exist in WA. We both need to work in WA to manage financially. In the UK, my salary covers all of our costs so we are doing okay. I would hate to move to Oz, where we will need to get a mortgage, and then we end up in debt and struggling with money. This is the dilema I'm currently facing - while trying to weigh up the pros and cons of staying or emigrating - as you can see from the many questions I'm posting on here!! Another dilema is do we move now or do I wait for my daughter to complete her GCSE's here so we would end up moving in about 4 years? In one way, I can see she should have an Australian qualification so she can progress with her chosen career in Australia, but I worry that if we emigrate and then move back to the UK, how will a UK employer recognize her Australian qualification!!?! As I've typed the above, I realize I sound like a manic over worrier - maybe I am..... |
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by spouse of scouse
(Post 10639963)
I only have anecdotal evidence re the UK, but one of my nieces in Liverpool is a qualified social worker, and she can't get a job in her field so is working full time at Pound Land.:
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Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by DBinLondon
(Post 10639385)
I agree with some of the posts thus far and would like to give my perspective as an Aussie (married to a English girl) with a young daughter, who has lived in Sydney for almost three years.
However, a more fundamental issue I think is being ignored is because things are doing OK, and have been for almost 20 years, I think there is a real sense of complacency in Australia, which reinforces the 'Oz is the greatest country in the world and nothing overseas could be better (particularly any comparison to the UK!). Despite the hardships that the UK is enduring, some of the changes that have been and are going to be made, should make the UK a better place in the future. Many Brits are inadvertantly branded as being 'Whingeing Poms' by some Aussies here, but expats are really are pointing out things that can be done better here. You could talk for hours comparing public transport infrastructure, politics, grocery shopping, mobile phone contracts...the list is a long one. . |
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by paddyo
(Post 10640194)
Interestingly enough a very good friend of mine has just returned to UK due to a lack of Social Care jobs in Australia and to what appears to be a buoyant market in that field. Horses for courses. Plus.....the big thing which people seem to forget...qualifications is one thing, experience is another. It may seem unfair but both sides of the fence get positives in their favour but in varying circumstances.
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Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by paddyo
(Post 10640226)
That is totally bang on!!!
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Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Another point that may be worth mentioning is nothing has to be permanent.
What is wrong with a 5 or 10 year stint and then a return to Europe? We live in a very mobile world. Its just as easy to move from country to country as it is from county to county. (Ignoring visa complications). |
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by RedDragon2008
(Post 10640818)
Another point that may be worth mentioning is nothing has to be permanent.
What is wrong with a 5 or 10 year stint and then a return to Europe? We live in a very mobile world. Its just as easy to move from country to country as it is from county to county. (Ignoring visa complications). |
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
A few points.
Unemployment in young people is actually higher in Oz - 24% in Oz and rising against 21% in the UK and falling It is of concern that you couldn't get a job in logistics / freight in WA given it is a major freight centre. The Oz economy is starting to stutter as mining undergoes significant slow down. There have been a lot of redundancies in the mining industry recently and there are going to be more. While it initially affects WA and QLD more, it will quickly affect the other states as well. Being an employer of a number of Oz graduates I am pretty shocked at the quality of teaching they have received. They are a year or two below Europen grads. I know where I would want my children to go to uni. |
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by verystormy
(Post 10641258)
A few points.
Unemployment in young people is actually higher in Oz - 24% in Oz and rising against 21% in the UK and falling It is of concern that you couldn't get a job in logistics / freight in WA given it is a major freight centre. The Oz economy is starting to stutter as mining undergoes significant slow down. There have been a lot of redundancies in the mining industry recently and there are going to be more. While it initially affects WA and QLD more, it will quickly affect the other states as well. Being an employer of a number of Oz graduates I am pretty shocked at the quality of teaching they have received. They are a year or two below Europen grads. I know where I would want my children to go to uni. |
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by paulry
(Post 10641327)
That'll begin to change as soon as the current bunch of clowns get booted out :amen:
You think that mining will pick up again under Abbot? S |
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by paulry
(Post 10641327)
That'll begin to change as soon as the current bunch of clowns get booted out :amen:
Newcrest - gold so no mining tax, but have been hit by carbon tax Newmont - gold and not affected by either Bronze Wing - gold and not affected by either. A number of the nickel mines are struggling / have made redundancies. One of the major exploration drill companies went into administration this week. Lead / zinc exploration is non existent. |
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by verystormy
(Post 10641361)
I would like to think so, but I just can't see it. It's not just about the carbon and mining tax any more, but the cost of operating. Look at the most recent major layoffs:
Newcrest - gold so no mining tax, but have been hit by carbon tax Newmont - gold and not affected by either Bronze Wing - gold and not affected by either. A number of the nickel mines are struggling / have made redundancies. One of the major exploration drill companies went into administration this week. Lead / zinc exploration is non existent. |
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
I reckon that the gov't should have run the mining industry differently, not allowing mining companies to pillage the continent on their own but simply sun-contracting external companies to extract minerals/resources FOR the gov't. All resources would be owned and subsequently sold by a gov't-owned entity.
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Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
Originally Posted by renth
(Post 10641370)
My understanding is that the cost of mining the materials is going up fast (fuel, wages etc...) and the yields/prices are going down.
High AUD is hurting (although helping when importing gear) |
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
[
Originally Posted by Swerv-o
(Post 10641334)
You think that mining will pick up again under Abbot?
S |
Re: UK vs Australia for childrens' futures
If I were you I would stay as
- you have a job which covers all the costs & you love - no mortgage BUT, you have a stay at home husband Things aren't cheap here even though the A$ is high. It's an expensive move and the exchange rate is definitely not in yr favour. You will both need to work in Australia and have a mortgage. Aussie employers aren't great with flexible working hrs unless you worked with them prior to children & there's no guarentee you'll get a job either. You've answered yr own question I think and it doesn't matter what the rest of us say. Good luck! |
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