Pulaski

Indeed. And that was, and remains my impression of many remainers, that their only interest in Britain was how they could take advantage of the benefits of a British passport and cared nothing for what they wanted Britain to give up.

If your home, family (spouse and children), job/ business, and "life" are all in a country, I can't understand why you wouldn't take every reasonable step to become a citizen of that country. The only reasons I can think of to retain your birth citizenship if you have to make a choice, is either [1] because you intend to return to the country of your birth to live, or [2] because where you are living is unstable and you need to have options in case of some sort of crisis (war, uprising, etc.).

I am lucky enough to be able to hang on to my British citizenship for now, though I am already thinking ahead to when I might let my passport lapse and distance myself further from my country of birth.

scrubbedexpat142

"and cared nothing for what they wanted Britain to give up." What was that?

"when I might let my passport lapse and distance myself further from my country of birth."

Unfortunately for me, and others, the option of distancing myself further from the UK, by no longer paying UK taxes, does not exist.

Pulaski

Everything, eventually, apparently. The the EEC has turned into a very different beast by the end of the 20th century, looking increasingly to syphon all major decision making off to Brussels, and a parliament when British MEPs were always in a small minority.
​​​​​​If you live in Hungary, why are you paying taxes in the UK? ..... Unless you have a government pension (a pension resulting from employment by the government, which is typically, though not always, taxed at source), or real estate investments, (maybe some other investments?) I don't think you should be paying taxes in the UK.

scrubbedexpat142

Thats it, Govt. employment, taxed at source.

As for "giving up", sorry that's wrong. The UK was not a victim but was, well could & should have been, a major player, a decision maker, a leader in an association of mutual benefit.

calman014

Don't forget those who still have family in UK including elderly relatives who have to be cared for somehow.
Perhaps I will never move back, but it doesn't mean I have no responsibilities there or that I don't care about the country.
Everyone's situation is different, but after the shambles of the last 12 -13 years being able to exercise at least a little influence would be handy.

Pulaski

I agree sort of, but when there are 20+ people in the room who don't want to be led, and want to go in a different direction, there reaches a point where even trying to lead becomes futile.

One personal thing, that anoyed the crap out of me, was the working hours directive. WTF? .... I didn't need, or even want, someone in Brussels telling me how many hours I could work, and I immediately signed a waiver and filed it with my employer's HR department. But regarding almost all of the claptrap coming out of Brussels I had no choice in, and my MEP was in a tiny minority, so he/she had no influence over, and my government was often alone, or in a minority of 2-3 so they had no say, so I had no voice.

scrubbedexpat142

But you signed a waiver, so no effect, so what's the problem? By the way the directive was intended to protect workers - there are many out there who would welcome protection.

Going to the bigger issue, of sovereignty, which you have raised before - the EU free UK introduced some financial measures ("Trussenomics") which, of course the PM & Chancellor were quite entitled to do. However, the markets, the international markets, said no and the UK has suffered accordingly. Sovereignty is illusional, only relevant so long as others grant & respect it.

Going back to your first para, the EU has been extraordinarily successful in its general direction of travel, I suggest uniquely so.

Pulaski

The problem was that that was the only EU regulation I ever recall being to waive personally. Otherwise I was on a bus (an ironic choice of word if you know any latin) heading in the wrong direction.
​​​​But I didn't like its general direction of travel. "Success" was therefore a negative in my opinion.

scrubbedexpat142

You're "on the bus" of legislation, regardless of its geographical location of origin, whether you like it or not. How many pieces of legislation can you opt out of, without becoming a criminal?

If a project, desirous of bringing peace & prosperity to all does not appeal, well, ok.

Pulaski

Well I opted out of the European Onion entirely, and I am more propersous as a result, so I can't help but disagree.

scrubbedexpat142

​​​​​You opted out of the UK, good for you! So did I - & I'm better off too!

Pulaski

The thing is, that within the UK the ruling party tends to flip back and forth, sometimes I got laws and regulations to my liking, and then for a few years things flowed in the opposite direction, but hey-ho, that's democracy for you.

But once the EU became more dominant, there was no such ebb and flow, the UK was permanently stuck on the receiving end of legislation, much of which I did not agree with. If there had been ebb and flow, I could have dealt with that, but never having a say in the direction the shit was sailing became frustrating, and not only for me, it clearly made other people angry too. So Brexit happened.

scrubbedexpat142

But you're forgetting that the UK was part of the legislation process, an instigator, not a subject of it.
And the biggest driver of Brexit? Immigration (said from one immigrant to another!).

Pulaski

Huh? Part of the debate, part of the parliamentry voting process, technically yes, but about as relevant to the legislative outcome as Plaid Cymru is in Westminster!
​​​​​​​
Indeed, it was likely unfettered freedom of movement that tipped the balance of opinion in the UK.
I'm not an immigrant, I'm British.

scrubbedexpat142