dshole

I feel that the EU is a great thing, it has brought stability to what was formally the most unstable of regions. The EU nations are finally giving up their outdated ideals of nationalism. Australia and many other post colonial era countries have a long way to go.

Amazulu

This got me a bit when I was there. I heard a lot of 'Australia is the best/safest/richest/best etc. place in the world ' & 'everywhere else is crap' from people who had never been anywhere else, had no intention of ever doing so & would not accept any other viewpoint.

Bizarre.

dshole

I am not saying that Australia is a bad place, I am saying that it is not the land of milk and honey that some expats seem to believe it is.

I personally came to Australia for a change of scenery, I was and I admit this, unhappy with my situation in the UK. But I would imagine that I am younger then most people on this forum (I'm 25). I came here with my wife who is an Australian citizen. Her parents were moving back to Aus and we decided to come over for an adventure. I am unable to explain why so many people want to leave the UK. Everyone has their own reasons, and why Australia is the most popular destination, who knows? Maybe because it is not that hard to migrate to Australia and people like the idea of hot and sunny weather everyday (well QLD at least). There are also a lot of Brits who are taking full advantage of European citizenship.

Britain is not giving up it's independence by being involved in Europe. Neither is it having it's decisions made by France and Germany. I assume you noticed the French rejection of the currently suggested constitution. One of the most prevelent views among the "non" voter was that the EU was taking to much of a Anglo/Germanic direction.

Ozmanic

well said

Storini

Thanks for replying, all that seems quite liberal, and I don't disagree in general. I also am concerned about religious infiltration of the state, and earlier started the Creationist Loon emerges in Oz Govt thread which thrashed that particular issue around.

However, your initial posts talked about two issues which haven't been explored: Oz's potential relative decline in the future and the lack of awareness of its people as to the source of their prosperity. Your points above don't seem to me to address these, but maybe I'm not getting it. What scenarios do you see possibly happening? Japan buying Oz up? China/Indonesia invading?

I agree relative decline can happen easily, and the most obvious example is the "branch economy" of NZ. I think though a lot of the problem there was due to being cut out of the UK market by the EU. Australia's prosperity was based on land, sheep, gold, and now gas and minerals. Is this enough indeed?

Anyway, here's my five-point economic plan for Oz:
1. Flat-rate tax system at say 30%. Strikingly, Germany is likely to have this scheme if Merkel of the CDU is elected.
2. Bonfire of rules, regulations, and purge of bureaucrats.
3. Major and structural changes to release land for development. People are being crucified with insane mortgages at present.
4. Major investment in public transport, particularly in Sydney which is completely dysfunctional.
5. More investment in universities, which are being starved of resources, and industry-university cooperation.

I'd also like higher road speed limits and a tougher driving test, but that's another matter

dshole

Thanks,

And further more, at least the EU governments are making an effort with global issues. Third world poverty and climate change are viewed as real issues in Europe, Australia makes little more then token gestures and backs the US to the hilt.

Maybe Europe feels that it owes the world a debt (which is probably true) given how much her nations have taken throughout history.

Ozmanic

In a world of increasing mobility and globalization Australia seems to be Isolating itself-thinking big walls can keep out anything they don't like.
The UK has a far more sophisticated approach-they realise that by interacting with the rest of the world they must take the good with the bad.
Australia thinks it can get all the good bits and none of the bad.
Australias isolation is breeding a dangerous form of nationalism-or more to the point a certain ignorance.
Australia is a new country with little history, founded by people, who at the time were very progressive.
When Australians adopt an"us versus them" mentality-it comes off as stupid.......to be continued

Megalania

Just get all people and other taxable live stock to swim through sheep dip on their way in. Everything else is A-apples.

Vash the Stampede

You're right about Australia's lapdog approach to climate change - but that's only achieved over the loud protests of the average Australian on the street. It is reflective of one man (John Howard) and his government; it is not reflective of Australians as a whole.

As for Third World debt - we give what we can afford to give. Yes, we could and should give more. But that's true of everyone.

Australia was the largest Western donor to relief aid in the wake of the Indian Ocean tsunami, with AUD $1,377bn from the government and a further AUD $280M from NGOs and public donations. Even without the inclusion of corporate donations (for which I have no figures) this adds up to USD $1.322bn.

See here for details.

ozzieeagle

Well said, I think it's definitely the EU's influence , that caused me to be totally 'gobsmacked' at the what I saw as the vast improvement in circumstances after 16 years away from the UK.

Having said that, Australia is just in it's infancy of realising that it has to must have closer ties with Asia.

Sure The EU thing raised the level for which Australia must aim, I'm sure eventually this region will respond in a very assertive manner.

It will take the same amount of time, as I was away from the UK, I think.

I reckon I picked the time to be away from the UK, with great precision, in seeing how much a place can improve.

moneypenny20

Funny how coming back to visit you see it as improved and (some of) those that haven't left see it as going down hill

OzTennis

Perhaps when you are a visitor or a tourist you see any place superficially but when you live somewhere you see it warts and all??

OzTennis

Ozmanic

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Lewis Lapthorn

I think our motives are often misunderstood from non Brits who read these forums.

England is my country, I'm English and proud of it - because its my nationality and my roots and culture. When Jonny kicked that goal in the dying minutes to win us the rugby world cup, I stood on my balcony in Port Macquarie, NSW and screamed the street down (not a wise move on refelction, but I lived - just).

People don't migrate to give up their identity, they migrate for a better standard of living. Why do you think the Australian government is pushing so hard for permanent residents to become Autralian citizens. Most incoming people are just happy to live there - but as a Pom, or Malaysian or South African etc, and this leaves the authorities with a short fall of people that are eligibel to vote!! This point is also demonstrated in Blighty when the England cricket team play Pakistan at somewhere like Headingly. Those thousands of fanatical asians storming the pitch haven't flown over specially for the match. Of course, most are English born, happy to be living better lives in this country but passionately Pakistani at heart.

I'm not migrating because I want to relinquish the fact that I'm English, I'm migrating for many reasons - weather, health (like it or not, Aussies live on average 4 years longer), and a cleaner, better infrastructure. And yes, because there are many aspects of the UK that appaul me at present - probably the most significant, is the flood of foreigners being allowed to poor across our borders, costing tax payers millions, adding to an already over crowded population, and threatening our security (do I need to remind anyone of 7th July).

The U.K.'s migration policies are weighted towards people who know they have access to one of the softess social security systems in the world, illegal work opportunities (Chinese cockle pickers - tip of the iceburg) and can claim asylum and then easily abscond. Why else do these people make such efforts to travel accross most of europe, overlooking other 'rich' nations to cross the sea to our island?

In contrast, Australia is a young, vibrant country which is selective on who they allow in, in order to benefit Australia as a whole. Why is it unreasonable to stipulate migrants should have at least a competent level of English - and that's only a basic requirement!! What does that tell you about the direction of the nation? If the people that make up a country are the most prized assets, where do you think Australia will be in 20 years from now - providing they continue with their sensible migration policies.

As a parent of three very young children, it's this vision I hold, which I hope my babies will thank me for one day. Although in our hearts - we'll always be poms.

Vash the Stampede

ROTFL!

40% of Australians are immigrants of the children of immigrants, from 160 different countries from all over the world.

By contrast, I have found the UK far more homogenous. Sure, you have a lot of subcontinental Asians and afro-Caribbeans - but that's about it.