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For those of you who know politics does make a difference.

For those of you who know politics does make a difference.

Old Dec 29th 2004, 10:13 pm
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Default For those of you who know politics does make a difference.

For those of you who know politics does make a difference.

Had a letter the other day from a relative in Sydney. Like me she has an interest in politics. This letter has led me to have doubts as to whether it’s wise to continue our plans to move to Australia in a couple of months.
Some years ago I had a conversation with Australian political guru. I asked her, `is a Thatcher type revolution likely in Australia’?
“She said no�.
“I said why�
She said.� In Australia there are two political houses. Historically it is rare for one party to gain control of both houses. Therefore `extreme’ policies do not tend to get through the Australian system�.
So she was telling me that the eradication of reasonably well paid, male working class jobs as happened in the UK in the eighties under the Thatcher government was unlikely. Now I am a toolmaker and the thought of living through another catastrophic recession such as Thatcher sparked off in the eighties in the UK does in no way appeal to me. Indeed one of the attractions of Australia, to me, was a more stable political system than the UK enjoys.
Trouble is, this letter I had the other day was telling me that Howard is likely to gain control of both houses next July. So; is a shutting down of Australian manufacturing industry going to start next July? If it is, then by looking at the UK experience: most working class males will never work again, there wives will have to keep the family ticking over by working unsocial hours in part time low paid jobs: pensions will be cut, people will have to wait months or years for hospital treatment unless you have something pretty obvious like cancer or a broken leg and if you are treated you’ll be shot through the system like a chicken through a slaughter house, education cuts, social spending cuts, the list goes on.
In short, the sorts of services ordinary people can only get through their government will be axed. Of course the only section of society who would gain by this is big business trying, as always, to avoid paying their taxes.
From looking at Australian history I know Australians distrust big business, they have a tradition of sticking two fingers up at any one in authority. Australia is a lucky country and so far, anyway, it’s been lucky with it’s politics.
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Old Dec 29th 2004, 10:25 pm
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Default Re: For those of you who know politics does make a difference.

Originally Posted by stressfree
`is a Thatcher type revolution likely in Australia’?
Let's hope so. Like it or loathe it Thatcher turned the UK around (from heading for 3rd world status, to the 4th largest economy in the world). Australia needs a kick up it's red tape backside. It needs to cut taxes, reduce the welfare state & privatise.

Tradesmen in the UK are in demand, salaries are good (the guys we use earn well & they know it), good, skilled guys are at a premium.

Don't worry about it, it's out of your control anyway.

Stay stress free.
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Old Dec 29th 2004, 11:25 pm
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Default Re: For those of you who know politics does make a difference.

Originally Posted by Amazulu
Let's hope so. Like it or loathe it Thatcher turned the UK around (from heading for 3rd world status, to the 4th largest economy in the world).
Actually the UK isn't even in the top 5 largest economies. This is an urban myth perpetrated by the UK Independence party.

As far as GNP goes, we're not even in the top 20.

Thatcher may have turned Britain around economically agreed, but it was only when the UK left the European Monetary System in 1992 that we got away from Boom-Bust economics. I.E. Post-Thatcher.

Still, at least Britain enjoys historically low unemployment, and the economy has grown for more years (12, I believe), than ever before since modern economic calculations started in the early 50s.

This country isn't 'finished' as some have suggested, but has some mileage in it yet. And I don't have to like the polititians in charge to say that.

Last edited by tonyk38; Dec 29th 2004 at 11:56 pm.
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Old Dec 30th 2004, 12:15 am
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Default Re: For those of you who know politics does make a difference.

Originally Posted by tonyk38
As far as GNP goes, we're not even in the top 20.
These are the top 30 GDP per Capita countries
GDP - Country
43,400.00 - LUXEMBOURG
36,300.00 - UNITED STATES
34,800.00 - BERMUDA
34,600.00 - SAN MARINO
31,100.00 - SWITZERLAND
30,800.00 - NORWAY
30,000.00 - CAYMAN ISLANDS
28,000.00 - DENMARK
28,000.00 - ARUBA
27,700.00 - CANADA
27,300.00 - IRELAND
27,200.00 - JAPAN
27,000.00 - AUSTRIA
27,000.00 - MONACO
26,200.00 - GERMANY
26,100.00 - BELGIUM
25,800.00 - NETHERLANDS
25,800.00 - FINLAND
25,400.00 - FRANCE
25,000.00 - HONG KONG
24,800.00 - ICELAND
24,800.00 - JERSEY
24,700.00 - SINGAPORE
24,700.00 - UNITED KINGDOM
24,700.00 - SWEDEN
24,300.00 - ITALY
24,000.00 - AUSTRALIA
23,000.00 - LIECHTENSTEIN
22,000.00 - CYPRUS
21,200.00 - QATAR


Another interesting (to some) fact is:
Of the 100 largest economies in the world, 51 are corporations; only 49 are countries (based on a comparison of corporate sales and country GDPs). To put this in perspective, General Motors is now bigger than Denmark; DaimlerChrysler is bigger than Poland; Royal Dutch/Shell is bigger than Venezuela; IBM is bigger than Singapore; and Sony is bigger than Pakistan.

Total GDP per Country:
Total GDP - Country
10,082,000 million - UNITED STATES
5,560,000 million - CHINA
3,450,000 million - JAPAN
2,500,000 million - INDIA
2,174,000 million - GERMANY
1,510,000 million - FRANCE
1,470,000 million - UNITED KINGDOM
1,430,000 million - BRAZIL
1,402,000 million - ITALY
1,200,000 million - RUSSIA




Originally Posted by tonyk38
Actually the UK isn't even in the top 5 largest economies. This is an urban myth perpetrated by the UK Independence party.
Confusion will also arise due to the UK being one of the G-5 group.
 
Old Dec 30th 2004, 12:35 am
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Default Re: For those of you who know politics does make a difference.

Originally Posted by ABCDiamond
These are the top 30 GDP per Capita countries
GDP - Country
43,400.00 - LUXEMBOURG
36,300.00 - UNITED STATES
34,800.00 - BERMUDA
34,600.00 - SAN MARINO
31,100.00 - SWITZERLAND
30,800.00 - NORWAY
30,000.00 - CAYMAN ISLANDS
28,000.00 - DENMARK
28,000.00 - ARUBA
27,700.00 - CANADA
27,300.00 - IRELAND
27,200.00 - JAPAN
27,000.00 - AUSTRIA
27,000.00 - MONACO
26,200.00 - GERMANY
26,100.00 - BELGIUM
25,800.00 - NETHERLANDS
25,800.00 - FINLAND
25,400.00 - FRANCE
25,000.00 - HONG KONG
24,800.00 - ICELAND
24,800.00 - JERSEY
24,700.00 - SINGAPORE
24,700.00 - UNITED KINGDOM
24,700.00 - SWEDEN
24,300.00 - ITALY
24,000.00 - AUSTRALIA
23,000.00 - LIECHTENSTEIN
22,000.00 - CYPRUS
21,200.00 - QATAR


Another interesting (to some) fact is:
Of the 100 largest economies in the world, 51 are corporations; only 49 are countries (based on a comparison of corporate sales and country GDPs). To put this in perspective, General Motors is now bigger than Denmark; DaimlerChrysler is bigger than Poland; Royal Dutch/Shell is bigger than Venezuela; IBM is bigger than Singapore; and Sony is bigger than Pakistan.

Total GDP per Country:
Total GDP - Country
10,082,000 million - UNITED STATES
5,560,000 million - CHINA
3,450,000 million - JAPAN
2,500,000 million - INDIA
2,174,000 million - GERMANY
1,510,000 million - FRANCE
1,470,000 million - UNITED KINGDOM
1,430,000 million - BRAZIL
1,402,000 million - ITALY
1,200,000 million - RUSSIA




Confusion will also arise due to the UK being one of the G-5 group.
Blimey! Stats indeed! Some interesting surprises there.

You know how far Ireland has come in recent years when it now has a higher GDP than Japan!

Mine's a guinness. Cheers!
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Old Dec 30th 2004, 12:50 am
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Default Re: For those of you who know politics does make a difference.

Originally Posted by tonyk38
Blimey! Stats indeed! Some interesting surprises there.

You know how far Ireland has come in recent years when it now has a higher GDP than Japan!

Mine's a guinness. Cheers!
 
Old Dec 30th 2004, 1:15 am
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Default Re: For those of you who know politics does make a difference.

Originally Posted by stressfree
For those of you who know politics does make a difference.

Had a letter the other day from a relative in Sydney. Like me she has an interest in politics. This letter has led me to have doubts as to whether it’s wise to continue our plans to move to Australia in a couple of months.
Some years ago I had a conversation with Australian political guru. I asked her, `is a Thatcher type revolution likely in Australia’?
“She said no�.
“I said why�
She said.� In Australia there are two political houses. Historically it is rare for one party to gain control of both houses. Therefore `extreme’ policies do not tend to get through the Australian system�.
So she was telling me that the eradication of reasonably well paid, male working class jobs as happened in the UK in the eighties under the Thatcher government was unlikely. Now I am a toolmaker and the thought of living through another catastrophic recession such as Thatcher sparked off in the eighties in the UK does in no way appeal to me. Indeed one of the attractions of Australia, to me, was a more stable political system than the UK enjoys.
Trouble is, this letter I had the other day was telling me that Howard is likely to gain control of both houses next July. So; is a shutting down of Australian manufacturing industry going to start next July? If it is, then by looking at the UK experience: most working class males will never work again, there wives will have to keep the family ticking over by working unsocial hours in part time low paid jobs: pensions will be cut, people will have to wait months or years for hospital treatment unless you have something pretty obvious like cancer or a broken leg and if you are treated you’ll be shot through the system like a chicken through a slaughter house, education cuts, social spending cuts, the list goes on.
In short, the sorts of services ordinary people can only get through their government will be axed. Of course the only section of society who would gain by this is big business trying, as always, to avoid paying their taxes.
From looking at Australian history I know Australians distrust big business, they have a tradition of sticking two fingers up at any one in authority. Australia is a lucky country and so far, anyway, it’s been lucky with it’s politics.
Stressfree
Little Johnnie Howard has control of both houses of parliament and industrial relations reform is high on the agenda along with the privatisation of Telstra. NSW labour is also likely to lose the next state election (unless there is some radical turnaround in the polls). Normally the upper house renegotiates a lot of policies before they pass but who know what a coalition controlled senate will do. At least Family First do not have the balance of power as their evangelical base scares me.

Australia also underwent a recession in the late eighties. Privatisation and free market economics are now considered mainstream whilst no one wants to go back to the Keynsian interventionist policies of the seventies. Anyhow Thatcherite policies are here, just taking longer to be implemented. It was in fact Paul Keating (Labour) who kicked started the market reforms in the late eighties.

As far as healthcare goes Australia has a much larger private sector than the UK. Just booked Ante-Natal classes ($245) and 20 week ultrasound scan ($205). Not sure how much medicare will refund.

Your talk of eradication is utter crap and there is still an industrial sector in the UK albeit a much smaller one. What matters is that the industry is sustainable without state handouts.

It is the new busines' of tomorrow that needs nurturing with government money. Established business should not be leeching off the taxpayer.

The biggest move away from boom bust (which Thatcher did not do) is the move to an independant bank of England. Interest rates need to move in relation to the economic cycle, not the electoral cycle.

Traditional working class male jobs are inevitably going to continue to decline and there is not much government can do to fight it. Finding the alternatives is the challenge.
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Old Dec 30th 2004, 2:58 pm
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Default Re: For those of you who know politics does make a difference.

Originally Posted by Amazulu
Let's hope so. Like it or loathe it Thatcher turned the UK around (from heading for 3rd world status, to the 4th largest economy in the world). Australia needs a kick up it's red tape backside. It needs to cut taxes, reduce the welfare state & privatise.

Tradesmen in the UK are in demand, salaries are good (the guys we use earn well & they know it), good, skilled guys are at a premium.

Don't worry about it, it's out of your control anyway.

Stay stress free.
Thatcher certainly turned the economy around for big business. But if you were an ordinary joe soap the look out was not so good. How about the 120,000 UK miners who lost their jobs under her regime.
4th largest economy in the world? Remember: `there are lies, damed lies and statistics' surely personal experience and observation are a better guide. Throughout the 80s and most of the way through the 90s I lived a hand to mouth existence and I count myself as lucky as many had it worse. At the same time though probably around half the trucks and maybe a quarter of the cars on our roads were made in northern European countries, high wage economies. During this period though our goverment appeared to be pursueing a cheap labour policy. Germany still has a high quality and high wage manufacturing sector;Mercs, BMW, MAN, and several others I cant spell. Oh of course ford have just moved Jaguar to Germany and are closing down the Coventry plant, where Jags have been made since the 20s or 30s.
The tragedy of ordinary people is that the one agency that might have acted as a foil to the power of big business, that is their goverment, has failed and is failing to do so.
Recognise also, that unless your a millionaire you need tax funded health care, education and pensions just look at the USA for proof of that.
At the end of the day I hope your right and I'm wrong, that big business is going to do us all a favour but I'm not holding my breath.
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Old Dec 30th 2004, 3:05 pm
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Default Re: For those of you who know politics does make a difference.

Thanks for the replies so far, gives me a feel for the place I wont get else where.
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