5thbeatle

congrats on your soon to be addition !

The southern suburbs seem to be the best bet. We lived down in Oatley which is only 1/2 hour by train into the CBD on the Illawarra line and the same to the beach at Cronulla. Nice quiet area with a decent pub and a park.

With regards to moving back to the UK. We initially came to Oz as a career break but managed to secure a business class visa once here due to my skills (I.T.). We decided to give it 12 months then reveiw the situation. Because of this we didn't really suffer any home sickness as we knew we could just get on a plane and head back (we had rented out our house back in UK). However by the end of the 12 months I was more than ready to come back as I felt that our life here was quite restricted. Oz was a fantastic experience, the people, the food and the scenery but it also made me appreciate the UK more and Europe in particular what with the differnt languages and cultures. Since we've been back we have travelled to Spain, Italy, France, Portugal and Egypt on various holidays. 2 hour flight from Liverpool John Lennon Aiirport you could be in Madrid or Paris or Rome or Amsterdam or Berlin. 2 hour flight from Sydney you could be in Melbourne or Brisbane !. Thats what swung it for me. No disrespect to Australia but it's a great place to retire if you like the quiet life but not for the best days of your lives. For me nowhere beats Europe.
Please remember that these are my own views as I am a bit of a Europhile but we did go back to Oz last year for a 3 week holiday and loved it. I'd class it as one of my top 5 destinations.

HiddenPaw

Yes, I was in exactly the same predicament as you. We had been in AUstralia for about 13 moths when I found out I was pregnant. We didn't decide straight away to return to UK but after about another 4 months we decided to come back to UK, and left 4 weeks later (we had been planning to go back to UK for 3 weeks over Xmas but that coincided with me being 6 months pregnant and we decided to go one way). It was our first baby and neither of us had any experience being around young babies or tots so it really was daunting stuff! We headed home because we both decided that we wanted the family support that was so readily available to us. I have absolutely no regrets about doing this, especially as I didn't have an easy time of it at the end (I know that not everyone has a nightmare birth but I was just glad it happened to me in the UK and not Oz). Of course we would have coped without family support but it would have been hard, very hard. My husband had two weeks off work but after that I was at home on my own, my family were a godsend. (I couldn't drive for about 10 weeks, I could barely walk for about 6 weeks so I really needed looking after full-time.) I never imagined being a new parent was such hard work, so tiring and so emotionally and physically draining....thankfully, the reward of the precious bundle makes it all worthwhile.

The other poster is right, you will make a stack of new friends through having a baby - I joined an ante-natal swimming class on my return to the UK and 13 months on, I still see the mums and babies (about 8 mums and 8 babies) 2 or 3 times a week. I didn't know any of these people before I left the Uk. Saying that, my friends in no way could have replaced the role of the family. But husband's need backup too..so consider where your support will come from (my husband's support came from his family in the UK).

I would consider having our next baby in Oz, because I feel now that I know what to expect and how to deal with it - but I still don't regret coming back to the Uk to have the first.

Yes, life is totally different and yes, we spend virtually every evening at home together. Our social life as a couple is non-existant - LOL. We have never left baby overnight with anyone and the only person we have trusted to babysit is family or one or two of my 'new mum' friends. There was a time when we didn't even dare leave baby with the family. I think you naturally reach a point when you are comfortable leaving baby with someone else for a few hours, and how long it takes to reach that comfort point varies from person to person.

Like you, we used to travel a lot as a couple - e.g hop on a plane to Europe together for the weekend. We really missed being able to do that while we were in Oz. Now we are back in the UK, my passport hasn't had an airing since I stepped off the Singapore Airlines flight in Dec 03 and my husband has been overseas once. Life is just totally different now, weekend breaks in hotels don't happen - I'm not saying you can't travel with a baby, but things that used to be fun as a couple might not be as enjoyable for a baby. (we tried a weekend to Surrey from Cheshire to see friends and after 6 hrs travelling at average 30mph on the motorway, bub was thoroughly fed up and cranky in her car seat, then we put her in a strange travel cot for the night and she just wasn't happy....the weekend did get better tho.).

You say you are not going to leave Oz before you get your citizenship (early 2006), so why do you feel pressure to make a decision now? Or is it to do with buying a house? I would say that if you can get thru the first 4-6 months of having your first baby without family around, then you're laughing. If my experience is anything to go by, having a baby will change your whole perspective on life and things that seemed important before, may not be as important now - and things that were insignificant can increase in priority. I would revisit all your questions in 6 months time and then see if you feel the same way about moving back to the UK - you may feel more strongly about it, maybe less. Your friendships and priorities are going to change drastically in the coming months so unless you want to go home to have the baby, I wouldn't make any decisions now.

Good luck

Craig822

Congratulations on the addition. Like us, you may well find that once baby arrives (and more?!) they ARE your family. For me, nothing else in the world matters but my beautiful daughter (5), cheeky little son (16mths and cute as hell) and the rock that is my wife.

Enjoy your new lives together (wherever you are).

All the best.

mrs_sparky12

Hiya, I may be completely wrong but my son was born in Oz in March 2003 and we were told he wouldn't get automatic citizenship unless we lived there for 5 years subsequently. I think it used to be the case but they changed the ruling as too many people were hopping on planes to Oz and giving birth (yeah right). So as we're now back here again we need to apply for citizenship for him just the same as the rest of us.

HiddenPaw

I think it depends on the visa you hold - if you weren't on a permanent residency visa yourselves, your child born in Oz wouldn't automatically get citizenship, whereas a child born in OZ to PR parents does automatically get cit'ship. WHat visa were you on at the time?

sackofspuds

Congrats on the baby. As you appreciate, your lives will change completely from the day s/he is born.

We have brought up 2 girls, now 5 and 8, without the benefit of family support and when you say you have close family then IMHO it's a no-brainer - go back to the UK and take advantage of that support (presuming you can get to the situation where you have family who are willing & able to help and reasonably close by).

Our situations are reversed, to some extent. We emigrated in '91 and stayed in Sydney for 4 years. We returned to get married and have kids but for various reasons we haven't had any family support, partly because the most willing family, my mother and stepfather, moved to Adelaide in the late '80s.

Even though our kids are now both at school, we still consider moving to Adelaide to take advantage of that family support.

We've never used a babysitter because, quite honestly, we don't know anyone with older kids; as others have said, your friends will tend to have kids of about the same age. So too, we moved to the area we're in after returning from Oz and don't have any history there. Before someone mentions it, I know we could join/start a babysitting circle, but most people we know have at least one parent or other relative they can get to babysit once a month and that's enough for them; they simply don't need what a babysitting circle would provide.

You mention house prices. I for one think they are even more overpriced in Oz than here, when you condider incomes there.

Yup, a hard decision alright. I had flights to Adelaide booked and paid for and was due to leave last month, but cancelled at the last minute. I also had a forward contract for £50k worth of AUD which I had to go through with, but luckily I made a profit when I converted the AUD back to sterling.

You doubtless know this, but it is you who have to be citizens. Your child can then get citizenship by descent (the child doesn't have to be born in Oz to qualify). Of course, our children are citizens via this route but it does mean that for their children to be entitled to citizenship, our kids will have to live in Oz for 2 years. It doesn't matter when they live in Oz, ie, they don't have to live there for 2 years as adults. I guess this is a slight consideration pulling us there too.

mrs_sparky12

Yeah, that sounds about right. We were on a business class visa 151 which lasted 2 years. Thanks for clarifying that as everyone thought our bub should have automatically got citizenship and I was beginning to think I'd got something completely wrong.

jas_uk

Never heard of either of these... spent a fair bit of time in Melbourne, never been to Sydney although a good mate has been there for 2 years now.. are they wholly accurate/wildy inaccurate?

T&P

Hi there,

You seem to have a good few replies on certain aspects of your post - I thought I would approach part of your post that hasn't been explored and offer my opinon ....

If you move back to UK and swap NE England for South Coast you will not necessarily see family/friends as much as you used to unless of course some of them live near Sth Coast. Obviously you are going to be an awful lot closer than Australia but........you won't necessarily have this support network on your doorstep and it may not be that easy to hook up with people as often as you may think.

Keeping in contact with friends/family in UK from Australia does not have to be that hard. Winter is harder than summer due time zones but you have to make the effort to make it work/get everyone familiar with the right times to call etc........... I have a webcam and speak with my sister/friends several times a week during my working day (their evening) which is amazing and makes them feel so much closer.

Lifestyle wise/travelling wise - you have to make the most of what you have. When my husband and lived in UK, we travelled in Europe 2/3 times a year and around UK at every given opportunity on camping trips etc....

You say you miss possibility of being in v.diff places after fairly short trips in UK. You live in Sydney, I am not sure how much you have seen or what you have done but...........there are opportunities - lots of them, you just have to research what other areas there are near you and what there is to do.

* Blue Mountains (where i live) - this area has some gorgeous little towns/villages which are perfect for a visit on an afternoon drive. You can be at the top of the blue mountains in 2hrs from Sydney city centre which means that some of the villages/towns on the lower/middle part of the mountains are easily accessible in under an hour. The countryside/views/drives in the mountains are breathtaking and there are always lots of events / festivals etc on all sorts of things from arts/wine/gourmet food/music etc.........

* Jervis Bay - 3hrs drive south of Sydney. I haven't been yet but planning on a trip in a couple of weeks. Gorgeous sounding spot where among the activities are dolphin watching at certain times of the year.

* Hunter Valley/Mudgee wine regions - both about a 3hr drive

* Snowy Mountains - a little longer drive at 5hrs but you can go skiing!!!!!

* Melbourne - a short flight and cheap if you go at the right time - or if you are feeling adventerous drive - took us 9hrs and we went for a long weekend.

I have only lived in Australia for 3.5months but I am really excited already about all the places there are to discover!!! You can get to very different and diverse places by car - ie: mountains/skiing/cities/beaches.......

Anyway - this is only my opinion on one aspect of your thread - I know you are weighing up more options than just family/friends and what there is to do/see in easy reach of Sydney but...............felt like putting in my tuppence worth.

Best of luck whatever you decide to do.

T x