auron

Apologies for the long post, but put as much detail as I can in - thanks for anyone who helps me out on this

I'm looking to emigrate to Australia or Canada, and would like some advice on which would be better for me and which has better standard of living for my line of work.

I'm a 29 year old Java programmer - with 5 years experience, two and a half of those in banking IT (where I'm working now).

Want to live in a country where I can actually afford to buy a house - and not a shoebox that is 50+ years old and in need of repair.

I'd say my main aims in emigrating are to move somewhere where I can get a large modern house for an affordable price (200 square meters or bigger).

I'm also attracted to the seeminginlgy better working environments - I've heard working hours are less and there is less pressure in general in both Aus and Canada.

Crime, living costs, police inefficency and British youth are also a major downer.

Basically I'm looking for a better quality of life than I can get in England. Cost of living wise and assuming local salaries how does England compare with Australia - ie how much money will I have left at the end of the day, and how do things like cost of living stakcc up coompared to England when assuming local wages and taxes.

Any ideas on the salaries for a good java programmer, and where are the IT jobs located (banking and non banking?)

Which parts are better for IT (Melborune seeems nice to me).

I'm currently earning 50,000 pounds basic salary with a few perks, and saved 100,000 to buy a house (sadly it wont get me anywhere in England).
I've seen HUGE new houses in Melborune suburbs for $350,000 which to me seems pretty cheap - even considering local wages.

Is tax similar with England or less for my kind of salary, and ho about healthcare and education costs (havent goot kids yet, but want them to go to University).

Any help appreciated, looking for detail and standard of living between England and Aus, and if possible Aus and Canada to help me make the decision of where to go.

Many thanks

Sally Simpson

For info specific to IT try that part of the forum:
http://britishexpats.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=78

You also need to ask about Canada in the Canadian forum:
http://britishexpats.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=56

There is also a good search facility especially if you use advanced search!

Cost of living is not cheap here, similar to UK with some things cheaper eg petrol & some things much more expensive.
You are on a good salary for the UK so I would research that quite carefully.
You should also look at the Immi website to see if you are eligible for an Aus visa. Actually, probably the first thing you should do!
http://www.immi.gov.au/

Good luck!

jad n rich

Work, jobs in both aus and canada seem to be much harder to find due to economic recession, check first which might have better prospects for you.
I really think at the moment walking into the kind of money you are earning in UK would not be easy.

Houses, make sure when they are 'cheap' they are where jobs are I can buy a house in the boonies in canada for 100gbp but it wont be near jobs, IT you want toronto or vancouver..... not cheap places. In OZ a 350 house in melb new and huge, well lets just say far out from melbourne, certainly not near the city centre. Also be wary of leader ads, new house for 350 might include some serious additions to the price, like the footings, engineering, upgrades, or be in some dust bowl a good hour commute from melb.

Working conditions, Oz many are employed casual, as in paid if and when you work, your at call, or on contact a few months at a time. Yes there are $100,000 jobs in oz, but people who have them are probably clinging to them at the moment. Local experience springs to mind in both countries.
I know a lot of canadians only get 2 weeks annual leave, and the min wage is about $8, I am sure that wont apply to you, but I thought it brought wages down all over really.

Police, if you dont want corruption, and leniency in jail sentances, then dont come to OZ, also dont expect fair government. Canada, dont know the politics there now, but have no illusions about drugs there. Teens as far as i can see they get the same hormones and problems as anywhere, in UK its beer, in OZ its beer and being lethargic and so many have no ambition. In canada its weed, big time.

Tax - you can easily search the rates, in Canada you need to take into account federal AND province rates, in OZ there is no large NI contribution but there is tax and medicare levy, which in many brackets makes it higher than UK tax and NI.

Healthcare, OZ has a medicare system, which seems under great strain basically free if you have a emergency, but you pay for dental, scripts are subsided but you pay even for kids, ditto optical. On stuff like doctors you get a partial rebate from medicare. Canada you need to see rules by province, generally a tax contribution, plus some sort of health care insurance with your employer. Dental not covered.

UNI, not free in either place. Schools, OZ private is very popular for state you contribute in primary that usually ended up at around $300 a year. in high, we just paid about$600 in subject fees for next year, thats each kid, plus uniforms excursions etc

Living costs, read time and time again people saying UK is cheaper now, havent been for 20 months but visitors are clearly shocked at the cost in OZ. Canada is cheaper than OZ however wages are very low in many jobs, and I dont just mean walmart ones.

Working hours are not less in OZ, maybe thats canada, working hours in OZ are supposed to some of the longest in the world.

Did you know there are several canada V oz threads too, have a look at the search box, some long threads too..

I think you really need to go out to possible places you want to live in. And see it for living in, ie dont do a vancouver is sooo beautiful trip and not see the homeless living under teh bridges, or the intersting population on E hasting street Truly sad sight. That is one city that has a huge rich poor divide. From the canadian forum jobs are real hard to find rightnow, but then some in OZ say that too.

What else, basically dont expect another country to be a picnic, most all have the same problems, price up your new destination according to what you will earn there, not that UK wage, it might be a while till you see that again.

Think if I was single and under 30 would try a work visa first, golden opportunity to try before you buy

spottydog

I assume you are working in London at present. With regard to house prices I think London is at present significantly cheaper than Sydney for house prices.

I live in an area probably equivalent to Islington and shoe boxes (tiny 2 bed terraces) in need of work start at $700k (350 GBP) with good quality 3 beds on 250m of land going for upwards of $2m!

Given that Aussie wages are on average lower than the UK and the dollar is strong/pound weak I don't think that the cost of living here should be thought of as cheaper than the UK.

moneypenny20

Most people would probably say they work longer hours here than they did in the UK. I think Jad has just about covered every other answer. If you're looking for Utopia, don't look in a 'first world country', they all have exactly the same problems that the UK has, to a greater or lesser extent depending on where you come from and where you go to and on your perceptions.

Petals

f its the job and money you seem to have those already.

Qualifications are big in Aus and those bits of paper are essential for every kind of job. Experience is no competitor for actual qualifications when people migrate here.

If you want a better climate ie not such cold winters then Aus may be the place.

IT you would have to look at Sydney or Melbourne. To get the sort of house you want in Melbourne you would be looking at the outer suburbs where the new McMansions type houses have been built and if you worked in the city then you would spend a good part of the day commuting, probably by car as trains do not service all suburbs and buses tend to take a lot longer to get places as they have such long courses to run.

Good luck with your decision

Soozj

I was looking to go to Canada but the reduced annual leave really put me off ie most folks get 1-2wks a year and for newcomers generally unpaid in first year.

NEDS what more can I say, yes I appreciate they're everywhere but definetely not to the same degree in Ontario as the UK (have no idea wat Oz is like) but UK def seems to have a major problem with anti-social behaviour that I didn't see in Canada or at least it was restricted to larger cities but UK seems to have every neighbourhood affected, sorry if its bias but its just what I experience from day-to-day!

Dorothy

That's untrue. All employees are entitiled to 4% of their annual work hours as paid leave; newcomers too. That equates to 10 working days for full time employees. You may be expected to work the full year before being entitled to take time off, but your employer cannot refuse to pay it.
Antisocial behaviour not in Ontario? Where were you, Pickle Lake? Antisocial behaviour is the same in pretty much every western country. Drugs, alcohol, crime, all facts of life in every country.

thermojetics

Just another opinion here. I am currently living in Canada, North of Toronto and I am very close to move in Australia.

Canada is a very good country, you get pretty good social assistance but crime is like on any other major cities, not really like USA but we're getting there...

Jobs right now are hard to find, even in IT, and local experience usually preferred.

House pricing in Toronto are high, for a house with the surface you want in a decent neighborhood, you are looking at 500k.

Life is not cheap here, but prices are in general a little lower than Australia...

Weather sucks, in winter we get a lot of snow ... be prepared to clean up the driveway 2-3 times a week, at least. Summer is humid and hot and sticky.

Vacation is standard 2 weeks/year and everybody get it... + 9 long weekends

I am not in the position to comment about Australia, I have been there just for 2 weeks last year, but we've decided to move there for a better and nice climate, for a different lifestyle and others...

Good luck in your decision!

Twinset

We had same decision to make: friend in Calgary and loving it, long winter break as they work in landscape gardening: 2 weeks off suck, would be a complete shock to the system.

Actually 4 weeks off in Oz means that we are using all time available to us and treating it as golden, compared to the very generous UK allowances.

Life is too short: agree about property prices - we have landed in a very cool spot and v happy, but would not describe as cheap. And working hard to bring in the bacon.

BUT we are very happy with the transition: people polite, way less swearing, in general people very much more optimistic as befits a new world country, wine fantastic, beach 10 minutes walk, sunshine, heat in these old scottish bones, 10130 miles from the mother-in - law.......bring it on, baby!!

Zambia

In Australia

Ok Mate a house that is 200 Metre Squared is a lot of Money A house of 55 Sq metres is 310,000 for the bare house in Melbourne no Land or extras. Personnally I think your dreaming. If you want to live near somewhere that will let you work the land to put such a house on will cost you big time.

Ask that Question on a separate thread in relation to IT. I might even do it for you, i would be interested in the answer.

We have crime here as well dont let anyone say we have not. Its not as bad but we have way less people than the UK.

You will get a different quality of life if its better is a matter of personnal opinion.

Its not cheap here you will not get paid $100,000 (£50,000 in AUD)unless you are sh1t hot. It all depends on what you want to do

Salaries are someone elses answer to give however , the jobs are located in the big cities where land and rent is not cheap.

Yes the big citys are the place for IT

In several parts of the UK you can afford both a house and a mortgage easily when £100,000 and your salary dont get you "anywhere" in the UK the country is truly rooted. Come on you are in a really good position in the UK House market or any countrys house market.

Where I live in Melbourne if a saw a Huge (I assume your huge is 60Sq metre +) House in Melbourne for that I would be living in it.

Tax is western world tax , healthcare is not cheap and education you could spend the farm on that.

I know I sound harsh but it would take me forever to sugar coat all this. Australia is a western world country nothing is dirt cheap everything costs some more or less than the UK. In essence it costs us abut the same to be honest.

The real question is do you want to live in Australia or Canada both questions I think can only be answered by at least a visit. Or at least the willingness to take a big risk.

To me you sound like you can apply for either , you have a shedload of cash to finance the move. All the pionts you mentioned could be answered to your satisfaction , you could arrive here and still hate it.

At the end of the day you have a good life in the UK , chances are with a bit of graft and some luck you will have a decent life in both countries.

Best of luck

Soozj

Well its still only 2wks so no point moving country to have even less time off to enjoy it! Anyhoo where's Pickle Lake?? lol

Dorothy

Pickle Lake is in far northwestern Ontario.

torcraw

I'm emigrating from Canada to Australia for my own reasons (and partially because of the weather) but that aside...

I've never had a full-time job in Canada where I've had less than 3 weeks vacation plus 2 floater days (plus the normal 9 statutory holidays and sick/disability leave if needed). My last job, I had 4 weeks + 2 days (plus 9 statutory holidays and sick/disability leave if needed). I also don't know anyone amongst my friends or family with a full-time job who had under three weeks vacation.

The legal minimum is two weeks, but unless you're in some minimum wage Zellers type job, any decent company in Canada will give you three weeks.

deadlock

if you move to oz consider crime,ineffecient police,living costs, and australian youths,houses that are no longer cheap and that are nowhere near as solidly built as european houses,