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they've Changed all the pension transfer rules UK-Aus!

they've Changed all the pension transfer rules UK-Aus!

Old Jul 14th 2015, 3:18 pm
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Default they've Changed all the pension transfer rules UK-Aus!

Good old HMRC... change the rules without notice!

it used to be that you could transfer your UK private pension into your Super fund here in Australia.

However, at the beginning of April HMRC decided that the Australian pension rules (as you are able to access your super for various reasons before you're 55 yrs old) meant that you can't transfer your money, and it has to stay where it is

so now, it appears, my pensions funds are forever split and will be paid in different currencies...

Anyone know anything useful about getting through the rules and regs, or should I just leave well alone?
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Old Jul 14th 2015, 11:50 pm
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Default Re: they've Changed all the pension transfer rules UK-Aus!

Well anyone who wanted to transfer their UK pension here in April should think themselves lucky as they would have lost 10% (and counting) on the crumbling Aussie dollar since then - HMRC acting in your best interests
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Old Jul 15th 2015, 6:06 am
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Default Re: they've Changed all the pension transfer rules UK-Aus!

Wise move - there are plenty of folk who transferred then realised they didn't want to stay in Aus but couldn't transfer pensions back again. Aus never would let pensions leave!
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Old Jul 15th 2015, 6:12 am
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Default Re: they've Changed all the pension transfer rules UK-Aus!

Originally Posted by alipally View Post
Good old HMRC... change the rules without notice!

it used to be that you could transfer your UK private pension into your Super fund here in Australia.

However, at the beginning of April HMRC decided that the Australian pension rules (as you are able to access your super for various reasons before you're 55 yrs old) meant that you can't transfer your money, and it has to stay where it is

so now, it appears, my pensions funds are forever split and will be paid in different currencies...

Anyone know anything useful about getting through the rules and regs, or should I just leave well alone?
Isn't that a good thing? Diversity, keeping your eggs in multiple baskets, and the like?
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Old Jul 15th 2015, 8:20 am
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Default Re: they've Changed all the pension transfer rules UK-Aus!

There is an issue with Oz funds being QROPS compliant for the reasons you outline - there are very few that have managed to change their trust deeds and get them approved by HRMC in time. I still have funds in the UK that I will transfer to my SMSF soon when I get a new trust deed drawn up and approved.
Its down to you to decide when to do this. I deliberately delayed as I thought the dollar would fall and I would get a bit more for my money. I am in no hurry to bring this over as I am well past the six month rule.
You will be able to move this, you just need to make sure it is to a QROPS fund and there are very few at the mo. This will change over the next few months and then you need to decide if its still a good plan, or get some advice. I am pretty sure things will improve, but not quickly.
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Old Jul 18th 2015, 8:28 am
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Default Re: they've Changed all the pension transfer rules UK-Aus!

Originally Posted by Scotty1 View Post
There is an issue with Oz funds being QROPS compliant for the reasons you outline - there are very few that have managed to change their trust deeds and get them approved by HRMC in time. I still have funds in the UK that I will transfer to my SMSF soon when I get a new trust deed drawn up and approved.
Its down to you to decide when to do this. I deliberately delayed as I thought the dollar would fall and I would get a bit more for my money. I am in no hurry to bring this over as I am well past the six month rule.
You will be able to move this, you just need to make sure it is to a QROPS fund and there are very few at the mo. This will change over the next few months and then you need to decide if its still a good plan, or get some advice. I am pretty sure things will improve, but not quickly.
Hi
I have (had) a QROPS scheme for my smsf. Last year was asked to confirm that access was not possible before age 55 - which I did (and backed by trust deed).

I received a letter last week saying that my scheme has been excluded from being a QROPS by HMRC. It said no Australian schemes can meet the pension age test introduced on 6 April by HMRC. So the Australian legislation trumps a trust deed!

You can still transfer of course but subject to heavy tax.

Regards
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Old Jul 18th 2015, 8:51 am
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Default Re: they've Changed all the pension transfer rules UK-Aus!

Originally Posted by Reasonable View Post
Hi

I received a letter last week saying that my scheme has been excluded from being a QROPS by HMRC. It said no Australian schemes can meet the pension age test introduced on 6 April by HMRC. So the Australian legislation trumps a trust deed!

You can still transfer of course but subject to heavy tax.

Regards
That's interesting. I have been reading about the issue and that there are various discussions taking place to resolve this. Worst case scenario I imagine is I will need to wait a couple of years until I turn 55! Rather annoying and now I wish I had pushed to bring my balance over before April.
I knew things were changing and thought there would be more flexibility but was not aware there would be this disagreement between UK and Oz. I will speak to my SMSF auditors who are also QROPS agents here and post if I find out anything useful
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Old Jul 18th 2015, 9:45 am
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Default Re: they've Changed all the pension transfer rules UK-Aus!

Originally Posted by quoll View Post
Wise move - there are plenty of folk who transferred then realised they didn't want to stay in Aus but couldn't transfer pensions back again. Aus never would let pensions leave!
One of the reasons we have the 4th largest non-public pension system in the world

It will be $8 trillion in my lifetime
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Old Jul 19th 2015, 2:38 pm
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Default Re: they've Changed all the pension transfer rules UK-Aus!

Originally Posted by Scotty1 View Post
I will speak to my SMSF auditors who are also QROPS agents here and post if I find out anything useful
They do say there is only one QROPS left in Australia, the Local Government Superannuation Scheme.
www.gov.uk

I was planning in waiting till I am 65 anyway, but not sure now how the changes will affect me.
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Old Jul 20th 2015, 12:00 pm
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Default Re: they've Changed all the pension transfer rules UK-Aus!

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
Isn't that a good thing? Diversity, keeping your eggs in multiple baskets, and the like?
Diversify,no idea what to buy so buy everything,hope the winners balance out the losers.

$ cost averaging,no idea what price to pay,so buy at whatever price,no matter how high.For the same amount of money you'll
get fewer shares

All eggs in one basket ,easy to watch.Hundreds of baskets easy to watch?


Buy a house in an SMSF,non recourse loan,mention the word tax and they go weak at the knees.As I said all those years ago,keep away from that.



That 100K spent on ANZ shares still compounds nicely,as I said,far better..The financial industry doesn't take thousands of $$$ off you for bad advice.

If it started in 2007 (I think the discussion was then) then the dates are still the same,2019 and 2031.The 4000 shares become approx. 16000 shares using the DRP.Going nicely at the moment,around $210K.

Every day in the future will be the same as the past,avoid truth and realitry,seek out validation (somebody to agree with them and tell them what they want to hear).

Geordie downunder
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Old Jul 20th 2015, 12:07 pm
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Default Re: they've Changed all the pension transfer rules UK-Aus!

Originally Posted by Amazulu View Post
One of the reasons we have the 4th largest non-public pension system in the world

It will be $8 trillion in my lifetime
When it does reach $8 trillion,just think,if the MER is 1.5%,then those salespeople will be taking $120 billion a year to tell you to $ cost average and diversify.Put you into the MSCI ex ASX.

Then of course a 30% crash is a small to medium one,$2.4 trillion wiped off super balances,thank god for diversification eh.



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Old Sep 5th 2015, 2:36 am
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Default Re: they've Changed all the pension transfer rules UK-Aus!

I was in the final phase or transferring my pensions to Australia when the rules changed. In a nut shell the whole drama is about the fact that in Australia you can draw down your pension early if you are in financial difficulty and that is against the UK rules for QROPS (Qualified Overseas Pension Schemes). As you can see from the info below funds are restricting pension transfers to the over 55s and overcoming this restriction. The list of qualifying pensions is here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-schemes-qrops

As of the 1st of September the first qualifying pension was added to this list and most schemes have made similar amendments and will be added to the list which is published every 1st and 15th of each month. So everything will be back to normal for the over 55s shortly. Hope this helps.... Johnny
The 55 and over solution

HMRC are now giving out QROPS numbers to Australian funds again, and indicating that those funds will be put in the QROPS list. The list is published every fortnight. Although the current list has no non-Government funds, I am confident that the next one will have.

We will need to wait and see which funds are on the QROPS list when it appears, but at the moment it appears that funds restricting membership to age 55 and over are being accepted for inclusion on the list. HMRC have also confirmed that an Australian fund which restricts its membership to those aged 55 and over will "necessarily" satisfy the pension release requirement.

When the criterion being applied by HMRC for inclusion in the QROPS list is clearer, I shall post another update.

The usual wording of the QROPS list explains that publication in the list is not by itself an acceptance by HMRC that a transfer of UK pension money to the fund will be an authorised payment. This is also emphasised in the recent HMRC Pensions Newsletter No. 71 and indeed, in the letter received by new QROPS funds. So HMRC say very clearly that the sending fund and also the receiving fund (and the member concerned) must satisfy themselves that a transfer to a fund on the list is authorised.

Please note that your fund only needs QROPS status if you are planning a transfer into the fund. If you have made all the transfers you need to make then there is no reason to try to retain or obtain QROPS status. However the reporting obligations and investment restrictions still apply - see below.
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Old Sep 5th 2015, 11:33 am
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Default Re: they've Changed all the pension transfer rules UK-Aus!

Originally Posted by swans View Post
When it does reach $8 trillion,just think,if the MER is 1.5%,then those salespeople will be taking $120 billion a year to tell you to $ cost average and diversify.Put you into the MSCI ex ASX.

Then of course a 30% crash is a small to medium one,$2.4 trillion wiped off super balances,thank god for diversification eh.



Geordie downunder
How did I miss this?

Although there are many problems with super, as a national economic policy (I doubt that you know what that means) it is first rate. Australia's pension system was recently rated the 2nd best in the world, just behind Denmark

Something that you patently fail to grasp is that for 95% of the population, paying super is compulsory - there is no other option for that 9.5% of their income. High fees are a problem that's for sure but there are plenty of low fee (and even no fee) options. If peoiple pay high fees then that's their issue. If you have a sizeable sum, then self-management is the way to go - and fees become less of an issue

Super is here and is not going away. I fail to see how $2t (larger than GDP) of it now (and compounding rapidly) is a bad thing - as many on here say it is
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Old Sep 5th 2015, 2:09 pm
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Default Re: they've Changed all the pension transfer rules UK-Aus!

Originally Posted by alipally View Post
Good old HMRC... change the rules without notice!

it used to be that you could transfer your UK private pension into your Super fund here in Australia.

However, at the beginning of April HMRC decided that the Australian pension rules (as you are able to access your super for various reasons before you're 55 yrs old) meant that you can't transfer your money, and it has to stay where it is

so now, it appears, my pensions funds are forever split and will be paid in different currencies...

Anyone know anything useful about getting through the rules and regs, or should I just leave well alone?
I'm not sure if it's how I'm reading this but the sentence doesn't make sense to me. You've never been able to access your super before 55 if you are PR or a citizen. So what's changed?
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Old Sep 6th 2015, 12:58 am
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Default Re: they've Changed all the pension transfer rules UK-Aus!

Originally Posted by Tr1boy View Post
I'm not sure if it's how I'm reading this but the sentence doesn't make sense to me. You've never been able to access your super before 55 if you are PR or a citizen. So what's changed?
It's possible to access your super before your preservation age, but only in very limited circumstances, including
•severe financial hardship
•terminal illness
•permanent incapacity
Early Release of Superannuation - Department of Human Services
This is not a new ruling, it's been around for a long time.
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