IrishDigger

Presented in a fun way but contains good information,

https://au.yahoo.com/news/backpacker...095824888.html

Dreamy

Complains about the cost of everything, likes the high wages.

carcajou

I thought it was funny, thank you for posting.

My wife (a continental Western European) thinks the same. Wages beyond anything she could make in Europe, and her family has immense difficulty conceiving of a place where a 50 km one-way drive to the supermarket is considered a quick run . . . and yes in the first town we lived in here, we had mornings where we had to scrape ice off the windshield. Though I don't actually find the prices higher than Western Europe.

Amazulu

Exactly. For Germany for example, groceries, eating out, drinking etc are cheap but fuel is expensive and other costs are high. Housing seems to be more affordable though. Australia, on the face of it, is an expensive country but disposable and discretionary income levels are very high. Swings and roundabouts basically

This is from the OECD for 2019 in USD for disposable income:

1 United States 46,903
2 Switzerland 38,469
3 Norway 37,729
4 Australia 36,156
5 Germany 35,935
6 Austria 34,491
7 France 32,057
8 Belgium 31,971
9 Sweden 31,276
10 Canada 31,630
11 Finland 31,077
12 Japan 30,570
13 Netherlands 30,465
14 Denmark 30,429
15 United Kingdom 29,672
= European Union 27,957
16 Italy 27,320
17 New Zealand 25,871

paulry

I see she's living at Airlie Beach. Hopefully not in the backpacker area which when I was last there looked like a tip. The adjacent town/entertainment area is not much better. A beautiful part of the country, though.

Moses2013

Sorry, a bit off topic but I wouldn't even say that Germany is cheaper than Australia when it comes to housing and just depends how you compare. Most Germans I know can only afford apartments and rent, while here in Ireland (for example) most I know have larger houses and own. Equally, I can only imagine that Ireland is behind Germany because the Irish have so many kids.

Amazulu

Fair enough. I did say 'seems' as property looks affordable in relation to Australia and the UK (even in some big cities like Berlin) but I've never lived there so have no actual reference. Certainly, visiting Germany is a fairly affordable experience. Ireland is an interesting case. Since the washout from the GFC, Ireland has done well economically and is now 3rd in the HDI ranking (from nowhere 10 years ago) and their per capita GDP is certainly very high, yet their disposable income rank is fairly low against this context. I don't know why this is. It could be because COL is expensive but Norway's COL is off the scale and they are #1 in everything. As I'm really interested in this stuff, I will endeavour to find out. HDI is the best measure of a nation's overall performance, so Ireland must be doing something right

Moses2013

Thanks and it does surprise me that Germany would be so much higher than Ireland, as I've lived in both and still have family and friends in both. What I noticed in Ireland compared to Germany is that in supermarkets here, they just throw everything in the trolley without really looking at price. In Germany the focus is how can I get cheaper, so maybe spending habits play a part (although things are changing here too). Of course children cost a lot of money and most Irish I know have 3 kids, while in Germany they have far less. Pensioner poverty is also a huge topic in Europe and especially Germany, as they have a lower home ownership rate, meaning that many pensioners can't afford the rent.

the troubadour

Someone has to be able to afford those over priced houses. (which was not always the case) Poorly built as well in many cases. My partner is likewise. While earning a bit more here, it should be remembered the loss of potential pension income, unless continued to pay into 'the pot',
after relocating, will be considerable. That together with a generally better health system has been probably the deciding factor in Germans/Swiss and French we know returning.

the troubadour

German house prices have risen considerably in recent times. It depends where exactly in Germany. There are countless houses in villages, still to be found at decent rental prices. Many of those 'villages' would be classified as almost suburbs, in the Australian context.
German houses are built to a high standard as well. I have lived in Ireland (a new build in Co Galway)and found the places not at all built for the climate. Same goes for Australia. The real estate bubble, a result of the 'Celtic Boom' years, encouraged far to much investment into housing, which collapsed, but too few lessons apparently learnt.
Ireland is behind Germany, simply because they are a less advanced economic country.

the troubadour

What is high in Australia is personal debt. I would say Germans are far more disciplined in economic matters. Their house prices are cheaper, as well as a better product, but many prefer renting not because they can't afford to purchase, just they don't see the need.
Renting in Germany comes with protections, unimaginable in Australia. It can be near impossible to remove a tenant unless claiming the residence oneself as a place to live. That will usually be confirmed.
While Germany is cheaper for grocery shopping, prices are on the up. Folk there complain as elsewhere about rising prices and falling standards. Those standards are coming from a rather high level though.

the troubadour

I doubt she would be overly concerned with the aesthetics of the place. If like the Back packers in my time, it was an over consumption of alcohol, followed by a a tussle between the sheets, or where ever more nights than not.
I suppose this being 'connected times' Back packers may stay awake looking into screens all night, but probably not.

Moses2013

Sure but things have changed in Germany too and the high standards often only come into play when it's your own home + you have a population of 80 million. Germany is only cheap when you want an apartment and houses with decent land are only cheap if they are in the East, or places where unemployment is high. The Germans also have a contemporary taste, while the British seem to love everything old and the Irish unfortunately follow the same kind of taste. Most landlords here in Ireland seem to be farmers, so you know what you can expect and during the boom is was just a quick profit. Luckily the mentality is changing and now you see more heat pumps, less oil heaters and better window suppliers etc. I still wouldn't want to rent here but since we bought after the boom and have a good mix of German and Scandinavian fixtures that we put in, the standards as you say are better and we had enough cash left to do it. No doubt it all comes down to timing and there are good times and bad times.

Moses2013

https://www.stern.de/wirtschaft/immo...n-8340854.html

Kaum Geld, falsche Jobs und keinen Plan - wie eine Generation zur Miete verdammt wird

Kaufen wollen viele - aber nur die wenigsten jungen Deutschen werde eine eigene Immobilie erwerben. Ihne
So gaben 83 Prozent der Befragten an, dass sie nicht über genug Eigenkapital verfügen, berichtet die "FAZ". Zwei Drittel verdienen schlichtweg zu wenig, um eine Immobilie zu finanzieren. Und 44 Prozent haben keinen festen Job ohne Befristung - ein Immobilienkauf ist dann zu unsicher.

Amazulu

I don't get involved in house price discussions on here as it's pointless but there is one undeniable fact about the place you live in - you either pay your own mortgage or you pay someone else's. Another point is that the state provided pension systems in Germany and other Western European countries are in structural trouble. Increased life expectancy and health outcomes means more old people taking more out of the pot, leaving less for the next generation. This, with a lack of property ownership as an asset, means that there's big problems being stored up. Countries that have a big private pension system and high levels of home ownership - UK, USA, Canada, Australia, Ireland, Netherlands etc - are in a much better long-term position