Amazulu

Nope

My post that you replied to is correct

Denialism is rampant - many don't want to accept the truth

Multiculturalism has failed in the west

the troubadour

Indeed. A world has been fostered on all too many with outcomes proving inability to cope. The government in response cuts services to mental health and related services in existence to help, and ponders why atrocities of such occur.
The solution of certain politicians, being an excuse for ever less freedom and ever more control. The structures in place, ensure far more 'losers' than winners in an increasingly unequal and pressurised society . Old certainties have dissipated to be relaced by uncertainty and fragmentation and loneliness.

Those that have been responsible for fostering in to play such obscenities should at least have the moral fabric to ensure the result 'of their work' have the avenues on hand, to in part repair the damage, they so successfully unleashed on society. ( do they even recognise the term society , these days?)

old.sparkles

Check again - both Australian citizens.

James Gargasoulas - Australian of Greek / Tongan descent
Hassan Khalif Shire Ali - Australian of Somalian descent.

Ali arrived in Australia as a boy in the 1990's. His Australian passport was cancelled in 2015 because he wanted to fight for ISIS.
I'm not denying that either was religious, or that Ali had links to terrorism. ISIS claiming responsibility is just ISIS grabbing headlines though.
Both are on record as having drug issues, and both appear to also have mental health issues (although this is better recorded for Gargasoulas).

Has multiculturalism failed? Not from what I see but we all have different perspectives.

That said, I'm not a fan of any religion - I'm still of the belief that it is the most destructive thing many ever invented (and that's man in the human term, not gender wise before I get called for being a feminist).

Dorothy

Here's an idea. If multiculturalism has failed let's start by sending back the Safas first.

the troubadour

Nope. It has been the making of Australia. But on the other hand maintaining record population growth, or near enough, will likely be the unmaking of it. Nope. Your post is your opinion, sans detail, merely sound bites collated from the archives of the disaffected right of politics, which IMO are given far too much time to, considering their size, but undue and earned influence does unfortunately make the need to confront at every turn paramount. Apathy not denialism is the greatest enemy. Something that the right is very well spaced to take advantage of. .

the troubadour

Right track, but I'd show a degree of totally undeserved leniency, allowing those unable 'to fit in' the opportunity of replacing folk on Nauru and Manus a clear swap in the exchange of places.

Closer scrutiny on our South African intake to ensure radical 'hardliner' apartheid sympathisers are screened out of intake an essential component of running a successful migration policy as well.

the troubadour

You don't have to be a 'fan' of religion to rise above the populist take on the destructive forces of region. Indeed man/human without a philosophical base of belief of some kind, has been shown to be somewhat rudderless, often either making poor decisions, and/or often compensating ego, with narcissism, purely self interest, greed or feelings of grandeur or self importance being somewhat paramount. Definitely an over emphasis on self which when the self delusion bubble bursts, as often does happen leaves a very dark place inhabited indeed.

old.sparkles

I don't have a problem with philosophical discussions but don't believe that there is some almighty being that has a power over me, my life, or any one elses. We are all responsible for our own actions and inactions - there is no 'God's will' (and that's any god, not just the christian version).

Given that this is supposed to be a 'christian' society, we can be very hard on those that don't fit into a little box. If that is your religion, I want no part in it. If having a belief in a god works for you all well and good - but you should keep that to yourself - it has no bearing on me.

I do not need to rise above the destructive forces of religion - I choose to play no part in those fairy tales / horror stories. I have no need for imaginary friends! If that is the populist view, so be it but I believe we can all be decent human beings without being forced to do so by any religion. Some of us may have wonky moral compasses for whatever reason, but I believe most of us can arrive at what is the right thing to do without assistance.

GarryP

Err, nope.

That's one of the fake claims of the religious - that those free from religions are adrift. The reality is they tend to have a [more certain moral and with a better ethical basis](How secular family values stack up - Los Angeles Times ), and have [greater 'self-actualisation'](https://www.mckendree.edu/academics/...ue3/kelley.htm ) than the religious types. Oh, and [religious children tend to be more selfish](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jvchama.../#254880137aea ).

As far as terrorism and religion is concerned, my previous research and the thrust of evidence points to religion being an excuse, not a cause. What you often tend to find is that these 'religious' terrorists were drinking and whoring only a few years previously - hardly devoted material. This, in the press, tends to lead to claims of them being 'radicalised' etc., but it's missing the core factor - they tend to be young and male. As such it's more closely associated with the rise in youth suicides in males. The young male needs to prove themselves, make a mark on the world (built in by evolution) but it is progressively harder and harder for them to find an outlet for this. Good jobs are near impossible to find (just work for nothing to gain experience) and even gangs and street violence on a Friday night tends to get stamped on (via lockout laws).

Terrorism in the name of a 'religious' cause is a possible outlet - with one individual aping the last etc. You could also see that in N Ireland - its a course that appears open to the disaffected male youth once someone kicks it off. But however much they might claim to be inspired by religion, it's rather the excuse for the deeper seated need to be sated.

the troubadour

Well speaks something I suppose that you don't take issue with philosophical discussion, even if not quite sure what exactly. But no we are even close , the majority to being responsible, for own decision making with regards to actions or indeed inactions for the large part. Reasons why folk seek solutions through the groundswell of populism and have always paid exaggerated homage to those with the power of charisma through out history that would often lead to catastrophic events.
People actually I would argue, prefer for a large part being 'instructed' what to do. Have laws that assist in clarifying the way and find liberation in not be compelled to think for themselves.
You really should rise above narrow conceited populist views on religion. It can or cannot mean a belief in a deity. It can be about finding a sense of belonging and go beyond self, or indeed it can in turn be quite the opposite for as in all aspects of life varied poles at either extreme exist.
It is not about the too often, somewhat imbecilic claim of imaginary friends , whom are real to certain people, of no importance to others whom don't believe, but something that is the basis and grounding of our human community since early times.
To this day, it is these imaginary forces that are called upon to perform tasks within society , based on the grounds of their philosophical principles called religion, be that of any faith, to attend to and assist, the marginalised, the poor, those neglected by government, and so on, not on imaginary cloud dwellers, but a principle and source that in the case of Christianity as an example contributed greatly to the civilisation that is the West today.
No faring alone in an every increasingly atomised world has not proved very successful. Rather contrary I would say to well being and happiness and meaning.

the troubadour

I would equally colour doubt into above references as I would certain extreme claims by religious elements, certainly fringe, rouge elements, but equally unilluminated mainstream claims as well.
I never claimed mainstream religion was the end grand total to anything. I merely get very tired of the same critique being lobbied at the very mention of the word 'religion' , yet nothing at the real causes of a host of social issues and inequality with a populist surge from within the right, of playing the blame game on immigrants and strangers but having very little to offer but divisiveness and hated to meet own means.
If we have the groundings of a philosophical base , the chances are of course we will not be swayed by such forces . Terrorism can be derived by a host of factors. The main one being the inability to think. But triggers can and are, historical injustice, revenge, nationalism, corrupted religious belief, state sponsored, ethnic, mental illness One thing almost always in common though the ability to inflict through manipulation, hatred of the ideological target (not necessary the target itself. Mostly the individual remaining unknown)

ozzieeagle

The last 3 people to have acted in this manner in Melbourne have all had 3 things in common. ICE addiction, Estranged from family and well documented mental health issues..

The Terroism issue is something them to act out on. At another time another place, you would possibly get a similar outcome from the same people for a totally different cause or series of causes, like harming the family of a partner or workplace attack.

Here's someone that possibly would have hung his cause on ISIS as he slowly became estranged from mainstream society and the workplace.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...07-h00hiq.html

.

the troubadour

Exactly. Something to act out on. Anyone with the remotest connections with the metal heath industry could ascertain that as fact. I other words if you are playing at Cowboys and Red Indians, a few whoops and war cries or clenched teeth and Texan drawl's, doesn't necessary make one a kosher cowboy or Red Indian. Wearing a sheriffs star doesn't make one a Tombstone, Arizona, law maker, in the vein of Wytte Earp , either, no matter what the wearer may declare.
Anything so widely put about by the media, may and does entice some minds out there to playact a role in the real thing.

the troubadour

People of various mind sets have the ability to create terror in the social environment around them. Hardly needs a mention surely? Now the more thinking required part. Does an act of terror from a disturbed individual constitute a 'terrorist act' through the creation of an act of terror, or is that purely the act of an individual or group, whom have prescribed to terrorist methods within the umbrella of being part of an organisation, purely for political or extreme philosophical belief , devoid of mental illness and/or drug abuse ?

Beoz

Pot calling kettle black.

Troubadours Rules:

Lets keep: Those who can have a tendency to feel vulnerable which often ends up with those people turning to groups for security, some of which use an "us against them mentality" to divide the vulnerable.

Lets prevent: Those who will contribute to Australia and the existing population as tax contributors, job creators, and innovators. Why? Resentment.