hubbard

That is a long commute to do on a daily basis, no matter how scenic. Factor in as well getting to the station at Wollongong and getting to your actual place of work, plus any delays to the train service and you are looking at over 2 hours commute each way - 20+ hours a week, sounds to me very similiar to the 'stressful, no time for anything other than work ' lifestyle people want to leave behind in the UK.

I'd look at a smaller property nearer to Sydney, when you factor in your annual rail pass not to mention the hours of your life spent getting to and from work a smaller property may not seem a bad option.

Kangablue

Concord, Annandale Leichhardt 1.2 million for anything "half decent"! What in earth are you looking at?

$1.2 million would buy me a detached property in Drummoyne, Rozelle or Balmain. Surburbs that are arguably more desirable than any of the aforementioned.

I am sure you can easily get a three bed detached 'Californian Bugalow' in Concord (bit of a boring place) for circa 800-900k (Haberfield would be a better choice). $600k would be the starting point for a decent two bed Federation terrace in either Leichhardt or Anandale (nice place, prices a little higher that the latter).

Put things into perspective 1.2 million is only about 480,000 quid. Tell me if you can buy a three bed Victorian House comaparable to say Clapham or High gate village in terms of enviroment and proximity to the city? Not likely. Compared to London, Sydney is still cheap, but don't expect Third World prices or something.

hubbard

I agree - you can get a 2 / 3 bed victorian terrace in Paddington for about $700k to $800k.

There are plenty of properties around in reasonable commutes of Sydney CBD that cost far less than a million. You just need to forget about it being 'detached' and with a swimming pool.

matt-and-jenny

Yes! They are crazy. Cer-razy.
But I'm surprised that your shocked. I thought everyone knew this.

ozzieeagle

You will find that most Aussies share this view. Commuting large Distances seems to be A trait that a lot of UK migrants bring with them. In fact one of the Disciplinary methods that Aussie Post uses, is to transfer someone more than 1/2 travelling time from their place of work. So they toe the line to get back to within a reasonable travelling time. A lot leave just because they have to travel more than an 1 hour each day.... Deemed unacceptable in a Majority of Aussie Workers eyes.

Kangablue

Indeed. Sydney is becoming London-like in the commuting respect. Considering Sydney's road and transport crisis, unless you live within walking the distance of the CBD, in some inner surburbs you might as well live 1-1.5 hours away by train and reap the benefits of cheaper housing. I live in Drummoyne which, if traffic is flowing on Victoria Road, should theoretically should take about 10 minutes into the CBD. However, it can take 45 minutes in the morning and worse if there's an accident. If I lived in the Blue Mountains I would be in the CBD by train in about an hour I would think. Of course it depends on what lifestyle you want.

House prices aside, getting around Sydney by road is becoming a nightmare (remember that lovely harbour limits means limited routes into the city - bridges). Quite frankly it's one of the reasons I regret settling down here. My advice, go to Perth - clean, great roads, friendly and still affordable.

Tom Sawyer

OK lets put Sydney houses into a different perspective.
UK houses are double brick and deep foundations, central heating, solid (external) doors, double glazing or good quality windows and maybe some internal walls that are brick.
Sydney's are timber framed, single brick built on a slab, may have airconditioning etc if your lucky, plywood doors, flimsy aluminium framed single glazed windows, most internal walls are stud plasterboard.
Now admittedly this probably applies to houses built in the last 40 years, but you get a lot better product for your money in the UK......ie they are better value in the UK.
We have been house hunting in "The Shire" for a year now and in that time we have found 2 houses out of 100+ that we thought we were worth the $700 -750K (GBP300,000) we are looking for. Most of them we have looked at I would say are overpriced by at least 20%. Would you really pay $600K for a 3 bed, 50 year old fibro? Yes there are cheaper options around, but I would not say they are worth it, unless you like 1970's decor, on a small block on a main road or perched on the side of hill.....cramp-ons not included.
We did a fair bit of research on houses before moving here, but no amount of looking on the net compares to a viewing "in the flesh". For instance we had a look at house on the net which looked great, priced @ $750K...brilliant, just what we wanted. Went for a look, on one side is a kindergarden, on the other the neighbour runs a trucking business from home. Great!!!
Now maybe we are being fussy, but if I'm spending that amount of money, I want something that is actually worth that amount, but I guess we are all different when it comes to judging worth.
And don't even get me started on the agents.....more unproffessional unscrupulous liars than their UK counterparts. They are desperately trying to talk the market up at the momment, but when you point out a contradictory fact they will outright lie to cover their ignorance. Problem is people will start to believe them again. And after all they are the only ones who benefit from increasing house prices, the rest of us suffer the bigger mortgages so they can get a bigger commision.

hubbard

But isn't the value of a property based on what the buying market is prepared to pay rather than the actual figures for how much the house's brick cost, the heating cost etc???? As long as Sydney continues to grow at its present rate the demand for housing will remain high and therefore prices will remain high - won't increase at the same rate they have over the last 4 or 5 years but I don't see them dropping.

Kangablue

Exactly! Just like the UK the value of a property is more than often dictated by the economic potential of the locality; how easy it is to get a job and how much salaries are. It is less to do with the actual bricks and mortar (in fact, it's more to do with the land it is on). It may be a new country, but the economics are exactly the same as back home.

Sydney is a major economic hub in the southern hemisphere (like London in Europe) with a very attractive lifestyle and surroundings (arguably, not like London). Therefore people with a lot of money and high salaried skills come here to live pushing up the cost for the rest of us to acquire a stake in the place.

I would argue that house prices, in general, in central Sydney are more comparable with Hertfordshire rather than central London. As such, a three bed semi in Watford or St Albans would get you a three bed Victorian terrace, Federation Semi or Californian Bungalow in the inner surburbs of Sydney.

On the issue of building quality in inner Sydney. Like the central part of many British industrial cities, most of the housing is Victorian\Pre World War 2. I grew up in Victorian properties in Glasgow and the wooden sash widows, panelled doors, fireplaces, cornicing, high skirting boards etc are familiar to those in the turn-of-the-century semi (double-brick) we have in Sydney's inner-west. Afterall, many of the materials and methods at that time would have their origins in Britain (the steel for the Harbour Bridge was imported British steel) One difference would be the ubiquitous corrugated iron roofs (big hailstones perhaps???).

Olibeneli

Hi Welshie

I am working in Wollongong....where are you working?

I live in Flinders right now but can't decide where to live......

The whole Illawarra area is great isn't it ?..........house market here right now is a buyers market for sure.

Wol

Couldn't agree more! we have just had a meeting with our architect (don't ask...) who said that Australians are interested only in getting the biggest house for the smallest amount of cash. Quality has no place in the equation. And the Carr government introduction of the BASIX building code means that almost no houses can be built as you wish. Would YOU want to wash your shirts in roof water just because the government hasn't invested in enough dam storage?

It would be comical if it weren't so pathetic.

Tom Sawyer

I do realise that the purchase price of the house is not equal to the sum of the materials, but my point was that you are paying UK prices for less, which to me means that Sydney houses are over valued. The main drivers of market values are agents as they are the only ones who benefit from rampant housing inflation, all the rest of the factors are just marketing from the real estate industry. Nobody is really rich just because your house value increases 50% in 4 years, unless you sell up totally and do not buy anything else so releasing the cash. Most people would be buying somewhere else that has also gone up 50% in 4 years so there is no realisation of your increased wealth. I'm sure if you got rid of estate agents from the equation the boom cycle that occurs every few years would be a lot more moderate and probably more aligned to inflation than having a group of people imposing their view on the market, which is really all a valuation is. After all most of the local factors affecting the cost of the house do not change over a period of time, in fact most changes in the area such as new buildings, roads & traffic etc in the real economic world should have a deteremental effect.
Kangablue reckons that Sydney is equal to Herts/ Watford. We moved from Buckinghamshire so I would say costs and standards are about the same as Herts, but considering we came from a 3 bed detached in a good area and sold for GBP275000, we will now be lucky to find anything of the same quality in the Shire for that amount of money. We have already resigned ourselves to taking a 60% bigger mortgage than we had, but looking at most of the houses we have viewed I find it hard to justify. As I said can you really justify paying $600K for a 40 year old fibro?

Wol

Quite right about agents although in Australia a lot of the bubble mentality is because Australians have a "pile in" mentality - it goes with the addictive/gambling syndrome - and buy real estate for investment regardless of the fundamentals. Aided of course by all the rebates and tax concessions. The market is underpinned by the banks - until it starts to go really sour, when a lot of angst will be hung out to dry!

Tom Sawyer

Here is a prime example of how the market is being driven to the point of over valuation.
We had been interested in a house in the "Shire", south Sydney. The house was up for auction and on initial search was in our price range of $600-750K. We viewed it 3 times, 2 off which were open houses. Discussed price with the agent, and some other viewers. The other viewers reckoned on the same price as us and we put a max of $720K as although the house is only 6 years old, it has had no decoration done to it and was pretty featureless. In fact in places it needs a fair bit of work. We eventually went off the place mainly as the agent had started to ramp up the price and we felt that in view of the work they were being unrealistic so decided to see how the auction went. The house went to auction, we did not attend, and was passed in at just over $800K. We had e-mail today with a new advert for it advertised at $880K :scared: . Now I'm not sure if this is unrealistic vendors or agents, but if it can only just make $800K at auction, how the hell do they think it is going to make another 10% by private treaty?
Despite all the news about the house price decreases and soft market in Sydney it appears that reality still has not set in. Infact it is getting to the point where we have discussed returning to the UK if we have not found somewhere by year end. If we can't get something we like, (we are both in good jobs with above the national average salary), I can't see how the market can recover, especially as rate rises are now being mooted seriously.

hubbard

Seems a bit extreme returning to the UK if you can't find a house you like in your budget. If the houses you deem worth $700K are continuing to sell at $800k upwards I think that is telling you that regardless of your own personal thoughts that the 'properties are over valued' the buying market is prepared to pay it, so effectively that's the price.

Could you not compromise your criteria - look in another suburb, lose a bedroom, have a smaller garden, or continue renting in Sydney and invest your cash elsewhere and build up some more $$s??? Or if the house purchase is critical to your life in Oz perhaps consider another part of Oz? My experiences of house buying is that it is rare to get exactly your ideal property - a compromise always has to be made or you have to up your price threshold.