movingtooz

Hi all,

Apologies this may be a long post - but we are very confused!

My husband and I are moving to Australia in September on a permanent residency visa. We visited Oz last year and fell in love with Noosa and its beaches, space, lifestyle etc which prompted our decision to apply for residency. We decided to sell up and move out there and set up our own business (no idea in what!).

Reality has now set in so my husband is now looking for a job for at least a year to get some money and provide some stability (he works in IT). We would then look at setting up a business in a year or sos time. Plus I am also 3 months pregnant!

Looking primarily at the job market we are now looking at Brisbane or Sydney but we have never really visited Brisbane (just drove through it) and visited Sydney with no intention of moving there a long time ago! (Melbourne is off the list due to the weather!)

Ideally we want to love in a 4/5 bed house near the beach, def with a pool and possibly views. We have max $1m to spend. Want to live in an area that can walk to shops, restaurants, nurseries etc. Also commutable (max 45mins) to the city. I know we are asking a lot!

So far our thoughts are:

Sydney - a great city and would probably want to live in the Northern Beaches but know we won't be able to get a lot for our money. Lifestyle may not be as relaxed as Qld plus prices generally will be higher. We also are not sure about the weather and if it is more bearable heat or whether its more rainy (are trying to escape the rain after all!)

Brisbane - sounds great like a mini version of Sydney (we lived in Newcastle-upon-Tyne and like smallish cities). Can get a lot more house for our money and be near the coast in a good suburb. Work opportunities will be fewer here but still looks like there is potential. Again not sure about the weather and whether it will be too hot/humid in the summer.

Has anyone lived in both places? Would people agree with our thoughts? Any other thoughts?

Previously we have preferred the idea/lifestyle of living in Brisbane or towards the Sunshine Coast. We are keen not to lose sight of the reason why we are moving out there. However, it also looks like my hubby has been offered a well paid job in Sydney so that is also a consideration (but money isn't everything eh?!)

Any advice, thoughts, etc gratefully received.

Many thanks

Em

AndyR1976

Ummmm....

difficult decision - I'm an aussie - lived near Sydney or mid north coast most of my life - borthers (two of them) lived in QLd - on on Gold Coast, one Sunshine Coast. I know Sydney and Brisbane areas well!!

Each have their benfits:

Sydney - better climate in my opinion, nice for 8-9 months of the hear with 1 month of really hot and 2 months of cold. If your in IT then better job opportunities, plus you are closer to a lot of the things you'll wnat to see (Blue Mountains for romantic weekends, closer to the snow for those bank holiday weekend ski trips, Hunter Valley vineyards only an hour or so away, lots of nice beaches, great city, all the entertainment you could ever ask for! Also depending on what business you set up you might find it easier to get established in Sydney or nearby - especially if its IT based).

But then again houses in Sydney are more expensive than Brisbane, plus Sydney is getting busy, and Brisbane is a GREAT little city to live in!!!

Oh decisions, decisions

I always seem to be promoting the area I come from but I'll give it another go here cauise I think it will be a good option!

Central Coast NSW, just north of Sydney. Its almost a 2 hours commute to Sydney but if its only for a year or two then what does it matter - if the plan is to estbalish your own business then perhaps after a year you won't be commuting any more??

Then you'll be in a beachside location where $1 mill will get you a nice 3-4 bed house with everything and a great view of the nearest beach. Lots of great National Parks and beaches! Some great entertainment with lots of restaurants and drinking places. Close to Sydney if you want to go down for a day out or to a concert - plus you can get to the city for events such as new years eve and other big public events (Australia Day etc). Vineyards less than an hour away, Newcaslte is close!

There are 2-3 major shopping centres, plus there are still beaches that are deserted! Best of everytihng

Essentailly its close enough to Sydney to enjoy all the benefits of the sity, but far enough away to be a littel cheaper and offer the lifestyle you may be looing for!

POnder it a little!!

Grayling

It would take no longer to commute from the central coast to Sydney than it would from the Sunshine or Gold coasts to Brisbane.

Brisbane does not really have a beach anywhere near the city.

Houses would probably be cheaper in a good part of the central coast than a good part of the Sunshine coast.

There would probably be more opportunities in IT in Sydney.

G

AndyR1976

I dunno abot this - it obviously depends on where you are in each location - commuting from Woy Woy station to North Sydney (where there is a proliferation of IT companies) can be done in slightly more than an hour - but then you'd be living in Woy Woy, Umina or similar - if You were to select somewhere on the central coast like Avoca/Terrigal or anywhere north of Erina you are definately looking at longer commutes.

No chance in hell!!

The house next to mine in Terrigal just got passed in at Auction for $8.9 million. The last 5 years has seen huge increases in house prices on the central coast as prices in Sydney continue to rise and push people to look to edges of the city. This trend is liekly to continue as the central coast has been identified as one of two major growth areas for the overflow of Sydney population (the other being the Penrith and western Sydney to the foothills of the Blue Mountains).

the sunshine coast is lagging behind in terms of population growht and you can still get some great properties up there at good prices - thats why a lot of people are attracted to the area (partially). My mate has just bought two houses there (near Maroochy) at great prices - and bloody nice places.

Grayling

The Sunshine coast is also lagging behind in terms of youth crime,drug abuse and all the other ills affecting the central coast (remember that many of Sydneys social misfits were decanted there over the years).

There may well be some very expensive parts of the central coast but these will not be far from places like Wyong, Woy woy, Gosford etc. which all have a less than good reputation.

The sunshine coast , overall, have much less in the way of social problems.

If you are going to give 'helpful' information then make sure you give all of it....warts and all.

G

AndyR1976

Grayling, the more I read your posts the more I think you are just talking out your arse!

I am a town planner, I work for major developers all over the world, but primarily on the central coast and mid-north coasts of NSW. I happen to also have grown up between Sydney and Byron. I am 30 and have spent 27 of those 30 years living on the NSW coast and ten of them working in my current capacity as a Town Planner – I won’t go into my CV but it includes Australia Day Awards, recognition from numerous Chambers of Commerce and awards from Australia’s premium planning organizations for my work – although I am no genius (and learn something new every day) this is one field where I think I am qualified to state facts.

I spend all day, everyday analyzing house prices, market forces and development opportunities. You get on this forum and slag off places like Woy Woy, Wyong and Gosford but I doubt you’ve ever been there.

You are correct in stating that these places are slightly less desirable (in terms of places to live) than the more affluent suburbs closer to the coast, and whilst I wouldn’t want to live in any of them I am fortunate enough to have a property in a multli-million dollar location overlooking the beach.

Having said that, you make ridiculous comments like:

“remember that many of Sydney’s social misfits were decanted there over the years”

Where the hell does that come from!?? I presume you have some evidence or knowledge of this!?! All the evidence points elsewhere I am afraid. Some facts:

There has been NO major council/social housing constructed on the coast since the 1960’s – any work carried on is generally re-building of existing social properties or minor building works. In fact, the Wyong and Gosford Borough’s have only 3.5% of their entire housing stock as social housing. Once you take out the social housing provided for the aged, vulnerable, care homes and so on it leaves not too much in the way of housing for the ‘mis-fits’.

This is in dire contrast to places, say in north-Kent coast (I only pick this are because it is one that I am familiar with) – where (on average) 25% of all new homes are ‘affordable’ – constructed and operated by registered social landlords (the people who took over the operation of ‘Council homes’ a few years back). Whilst I accept that a small proportion of these houses end up as shared equity or other schemes (key worker for example) the vast majority are added to the social rented stock (more than 50% in developments I have worked on). There was more social housing stock built in Kent in the last year than has been built on the central coast since 1960!! (a completely unfair comparison given the difference in population but I think it demonstrates my point in terms of the percentages of new housing that are being diverted to social uses!)

Actually the central coast was NEVER used to decant the misfits from Sydney – it was actually regarded as the ‘millionnaires playground’ in the 1980’s and 1990’s with many wealthy Sydney-siders having holiday homes here – this has given way to luxury apartments since 2000 and the rising price in housing is very tempting for people who have owned holiday homes here (if you bought a holiday home on the central coast for $30,000 in 1970 and a developer approached you to buy it today for $800,000 it would be very tempting – these houses often then get knocked over and replaced with apartments etc.). Even today more than 20% of the housing stock in the Wyong Borough are not occupied on a permanent basis and used as holiday homes for Sydneyites.

The latest figures I have indicate that 43% of dwellings on the Central Coast are owned outright with a further 27% being the subject of an owner/occupier mortgage – so that’s a total of 70% of homes which are owner occupier in some form – far above the average for the state. There is also a significant proportion of private rented housing.

Using these figures as a basis for establishing the general ‘feel’ of the area its very difficult to justify your comments that it was a dumping ground for Sydney mis-fits!

I agree that some areas of the central coast do have some ‘warts’ but generally it’s a pretty good area and the ‘warts’ are certainly not socially generated – but a fact of poor administration of new developments by successive Council’s.

In relation to your comments about Woy Woy and Gosford – these places are certainly not in a downtrodden state because of social ills! In my opinion it has been a factor of successful failures of Gosford City Council administrators to make the best use of the town centres. I’m sure that any long term resident on the coast will agree with this – they have focused on regeneration of areas like Terrigal, Wamberal and Avoca and forgotten to make appropriate steps to ensure that the town centres of Woy Woy and Gosford have moved with the times (similar to Wyong Council focusing on The Entrance peninsular and forgetting about Wyong township). This is why they are less desirable places to live – because of the failure of the town cetres to attract new businesses etc. Gosford Council really needs to get its act together with regard to these places!

Having said that, Woy Woy and Umina (and even parts of Gosford) are becoming very desirable places to live – and you can still get a nice 3-4 bedroom property for the family on a 600-700 sq metres parcel of land within a mile of the water at a decent price.

The ‘warts’ of the central coast are just that – I don’t its fair to say that “Sydneys social misfits were decanted there over the years” – because that is blatant crap!

2 further comments:

I am in no way trying to look at the central coast through rose tinted glasses – as a matter of fact, being a town planner working wither developers I’m usually accused of being overly critical of areas – including the central coast.

I end this debate here because I know you’ll reply with some (equally useless) garbage based on your ten minute drive along the coast!

Love to all!!

A

moneypenny20

I haven't read your replies, sorry but if your hubby has been offered a job in Sydney, why not take it for the year or so, during which time travel up to Brissie to check the place out. You might decide that a) you don't actually want to live up here; b) you don't find the business opportunities up here; c) you don't want to live in Sydney and/or d) you don't find a business opportunity in Sydney

AndyR1976

Actually that is probably the best advice - and something I didn't even think of!

If he's got a good job rent a nice little apartment in the city (or on the beach, or in the mountains) and enjoy the life for 12 montsh whilst using the time/money to check out a more permanent place!

Brilliant.......(wish I had said it though)

moneypenny20

I do post good stuff occasionally

Grayling

Oooh!

Is that the sound of an Australian getting all defensive

You do not have a clue about me and what I know or don't know

Interesting that you accuse me of talking out of my arse and then concede that some of the points I made were correct but for a different reason than the one I gave

Anyway....you carry giving out your expert advice...I am sure it is appreciated.

I am off to Belfast for the weekend for a kneesup

G

Grayling

To the OP.

We have had many discussions about the central coast over time....try doing a search....you will find a lot of interesting stuff

G

movingtooz

Thanks for all the advice so far.

We have thought about moving to Sydney for a year and using it as a base to decide about Brisbane. I just spose with having a baby on the way etc we would prefer to get settle sooner rather than later, maybe we aren't being realistic though.

Hubby currently trying to negotiate whether role could be location independent or if we could get a recce trip out to decide but suspect these are both unlikely! We will see!

Thanks again and keep any ideas/thoughts coming.

SafetyJohn

Andy
In response to your posting, I found this an interesting view. I am in contact with a NZ who are buying in Ettalong. They seem to love the place. I am considering this as an area to live (have a 2 kids 4 & 6 - would this be a suitable areas?) I would like Terrigal but feel the commute to Sydney could really outbalance the benefits - happy to be pursuaded otherwise.
Give your role as town planner - I would be interested if you had any further news on the long awaited fast ferry to Sydney.
An aussie colleageage of mine who has just return said they been planning this for the last 44 yrs!!!!
Thanks
John

AndyR1976

...the old fast ferry service....

This has been around since adam was a boy! I think they were looking at an Ettalong wharf with services to Circular Quay...

Every now and then the story surfaces and an investor is interested.....but nothing sems to happen - I'm sure that in a decade we'll still be waiting for it!

The other thing to remember is that, in my opinion, a ferry to Sydney from Broken Bay would not be a very good idea - it would have to travel an extended distance in the open ocean and would therefore be subject to delays and prolonged periods where it simply couldn't operate.

At the moment there are periods where the Sydney to Manly ferries are out of service because of poor weather conditions - and the path of travel for the City-Manly ferry is located wholly within the Harbour! So if its too rough within the harbour how the hell are they going to run a quality service in the open ocean and into Broken Bay - klnown for its rough weather conditions!

Anyway.......we'll see what happens in terms of the ferry ...but don't hold your breath!

With regard to the commute time - I understand completely what you are saying! Living in Terrigal/Wamberal or anywhere north of Erina would probably add half hour to your commute times whereas Woy Woy/Umina/Ettalong would be shorter commutes to the city! If you are lucky enough (or unlucky enough) to work shift work you might be able to miss peak traffic etc - but generally its around 2 hours from Terrigal to Sydney - closer to one and a half from Woy Woy area!

A

SafetyJohn

Thanks Andy

I guessed that would be the case re the ferry. With regards to the travel times I work with a guy from Gosford, he approximates the commutes to be about 1.5 hrs from Gosford.
I expect terrigal has better weather than Canterbury, still a nice place though. I would imagine I could stand the negative aspects of any area, I currently live near Gillingham and have not been to the high street in years, not without ensuring my tetnus, Hep A & C are all up to date. Chatham down the road is the home of the Chav, so bogans would be part of the scenary there - seems you just can't get away from them, Still just learn not to take any cr*p from them and you are generally OK.
Good luck with the move back home - maybe you could visit Grayling