Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Australia
Reload this Page >

Spouse Visa: Innocent until proven guilty ?

Spouse Visa: Innocent until proven guilty ?

Old Sep 11th 2002, 10:28 am
  #1  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
trece's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 12
trece is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Spouse Visa: Innocent until proven guilty ?

It happen to me that after having our wedding in Sydney my wife had to go back to her home country in order to apply as a spouse, which is a process that can take about 6 months or more. She couldn't apply from Australia becuase her last extension of visa got the 8503 condition on it.

I understand that DIMIA would check if a relationship is genuine or not, since many people use marriage as a way to obtain a visa to stay and work in Australia.

What I don't want to accept is that because of that people with a genuine relationship should be affected.

In my own case we had to separate as my wife came back to her home country. Three months later I went to her country to live with her, until they approve our visa. I left my work and life in australia for a while, in order to fullfil my dream: live with my wife.

Before all this happened I believed that in Australia law would make you "Inocent until proven guilty".

I got married in Australia, and now I have to prove that it is genuine in order to be allowed to live my life of marriage in Australia.

I don't mind, and quite understand, DIMIA's need to asess if a marriage is genuine. I do mind that because of the laws genuine marriages have to be put to struggles like separation.

Why couldn't the assesment be made without interrupting a marriage. Once a marriage is proven not to be genuine actions could be taken, but why to take actions before hand?.

The way it works leaves me thinking that since you first have to prove that the marriage is genuine, is that you are guilty until proven innocent.

I really object and protest, and wonder how many people are under similar circumstances, and what their views on the situation could be.

How many people in a similar situation are there? I'd be glad to hear from you.
trece is offline  
Old Sep 11th 2002, 12:18 pm
  #2  
BE Enthusiast
 
ywoods's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2002
Location: London
Posts: 603
ywoods is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Spouse Visa: Innocent until proven guilty ?

My hubby and I married in the UK and he has been back in Aus since leaving here 15th July. We postponed my son and I's flight to Aus til Saturday, we had planned to leave 4 days after hubby, but had to wait for the visa (which we received 1st August). Admittedly it would have been nice to not have to be seperated, but on the other hand it is good as I can spend time with my friends and family without feeling guilty of leaving my hubby out of things and then start our lives together in Aus.

It leads to lonely nights (but then you have a WHOLE double bed to yourselves) and endless days waiting for the flight 'home' but again it has not been harmful to our relationship as we talk every day on the phone and have our whole lives ahead of us

Dont despair, just look forward to your lives and this glitch will soon be a thing of the past.. something to be forgotten

Yvonne

3 days til we leave, 5 til we arrive. WATCH OUT MELBOURNE

Originally posted by trece:
It happen to me that after having our wedding in Sydney my wife had to go back to her home country in order to apply as a spouse, which is a process that can take about 6 months or more. She couldn't apply from Australia becuase her last extension of visa got the 8503 condition on it.

I understand that DIMIA would check if a relationship is genuine or not, since many people use marriage as a way to obtain a visa to stay and work in Australia.

What I don't want to accept is that because of that people with a genuine relationship should be affected.

In my own case we had to separate as my wife came back to her home country. Three months later I went to her country to live with her, until they approve our visa. I left my work and life in australia for a while, in order to fullfil my dream: live with my wife.

Before all this happened I believed that in Australia law would make you "Inocent until proven guilty".

I got married in Australia, and now I have to prove that it is genuine in order to be allowed to live my life of marriage in Australia.

I don't mind, and quite understand, DIMIA's need to asess if a marriage is genuine. I do mind that because of the laws genuine marriages have to be put to struggles like separation.

Why couldn't the assesment be made without interrupting a marriage. Once a marriage is proven not to be genuine actions could be taken, but why to take actions before hand?.

The way it works leaves me thinking that since you first have to prove that the marriage is genuine, is that you are guilty until proven innocent.

I really object and protest, and wonder how many people are under similar circumstances, and what their views on the situation could be.

How many people in a similar situation are there? I'd be glad to hear from you.
ywoods is offline  
Old Sep 11th 2002, 2:39 pm
  #3  
BE Enthusiast
 
shaun/lor's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2002
Location: geelong, vic. forever
Posts: 634
shaun/lor is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Spouse Visa: Innocent until proven guilty ?

Originally posted by ywoods:
My hubby and I married in the UK and he has been back in Aus since leaving here 15th July. We postponed my son and I's flight to Aus til Saturday, we had planned to leave 4 days after hubby, but had to wait for the visa (which we received 1st August). Admittedly it would have been nice to not have to be seperated, but on the other hand it is good as I can spend time with my friends and family without feeling guilty of leaving my hubby out of things and then start our lives together in Aus.

It leads to lonely nights (but then you have a WHOLE double bed to yourselves) and endless days waiting for the flight 'home' but again it has not been harmful to our relationship as we talk every day on the phone and have our whole lives ahead of us

Dont despair, just look forward to your lives and this glitch will soon be a thing of the past.. something to be forgotten

Yvonne

3 days til we leave, 5 til we arrive. WATCH OUT MELBOURNE
oooohhhh getting close yvonne when does the computer go down, thought you could arrange a virtual going away party on chat for us all
shaun xxxx
shaun/lor is offline  
Old Sep 11th 2002, 3:56 pm
  #4  
BE Enthusiast
 
ywoods's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2002
Location: London
Posts: 603
ywoods is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Spouse Visa: Innocent until proven guilty ?

Puter goes to sleep on Friday... sons is getting put away tomorrow Cant live without my puter for too long but hubby said I can use his when I get there, tho I dont wanna be stuck in doors when I am there, I want to get out and looksie around as soon as possible with no interuptions. I have loads of catching up to do with hubsta *koff* and of course my long missed mates and then of course gotta get the Tone man sorted with Holly Valance (Tone man being my gawgeous stud like son) so... all in all between now and then I can pop on here, but not for long enough to chat really.. specially as I have the old dragon arriving tomorrow (mumsie dearest drama queen extrodinaire) hmmmm and a lurverly indian meal out tomorrow night and then last night out on the town with sis, mum and mates Wow I am popular oll of a sudden

Did I digress at all??????? State of mind

Yvonne

3 days til we leave, 5 til we arrive. WATCH OUT MELBOURNE

Originally posted by shaun/lor:


oooohhhh getting close yvonne when does the computer go down, thought you could arrange a virtual going away party on chat for us all
shaun xxxx
ywoods is offline  
Old Sep 11th 2002, 9:20 pm
  #5  
BE Enthusiast
 
shaun/lor's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2002
Location: geelong, vic. forever
Posts: 634
shaun/lor is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Spouse Visa: Innocent until proven guilty ?

[
Yvonne

3 days til we leave, 5 til we arrive. WATCH OUT MELBOURNE

[/QUOTE]

look really its only 2 days to go cos you shouldnt count the day your flying. and in a couple of hours it will be 1 day to go cos it will be thursday, see its getting better and your not even there yet.
we have just got back from a meal with some friends we have made who are also leaving saturday.
im so envious of you all, but if we dont speak again till your out there have a really good one, and get online soon to let us know how its going.
oh and if the person in front of you has 3 little girls with em give em some slack cos there all really excited as well.
all the best shaun and lor
see you before xmas in melbourne for a bevy xxxxx
shaun/lor is offline  
Old Sep 12th 2002, 5:48 am
  #6  
BE Enthusiast
 
ywoods's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2002
Location: London
Posts: 603
ywoods is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Spouse Visa: Innocent until proven guilty ?

Will hold you to that

Yvonne

2 days til we leave, 4 til we arrive. WATCH OUT MELBOURNE


Originally posted by shaun/lor:
see you before xmas in melbourne for a bevy xxxxx
ywoods is offline  
Old Sep 12th 2002, 7:30 am
  #7  
Ex Mod (2002-2005)
 
ptlabs's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2002
Location: NSW
Posts: 5,464
ptlabs has a reputation beyond reputeptlabs has a reputation beyond reputeptlabs has a reputation beyond reputeptlabs has a reputation beyond reputeptlabs has a reputation beyond reputeptlabs has a reputation beyond reputeptlabs has a reputation beyond reputeptlabs has a reputation beyond reputeptlabs has a reputation beyond reputeptlabs has a reputation beyond reputeptlabs has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Spouse Visa: Innocent until proven guilty ?

Trece,

In most British Commonwealth countries, it's true that you're innocent until proven guilty in any criminal case.

I would think Australia's treatment of spouse visa applicants is more "not married until proven so" than the axiom that you mentioned.

I do sympathize with genuine couples as it's such a hassle to get that vital approval and visa, but it's extremely regrettable that marriage continues to be a method of choice when it comes to [illegal] immigration (as our desperate Master's degree holder from the U.S. will tell us all).

Peter

Originally posted by trece:
Before all this happened I believed that in Australia law would make you "Inocent until proven guilty".

...

The way it works leaves me thinking that since you first have to prove that the marriage is genuine, is that you are guilty until proven innocent.
ptlabs is offline  
Old Sep 14th 2002, 11:07 am
  #8  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
trece's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 12
trece is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Spouse Visa: Innocent until proven guilty ?

Hmmm,

I still think that it should morally and legaly be "married until proven otherwise", in line with "innocent until proven guilty".

Why someone who has married should be considered "not genuinely married" until his or her marriage is assesed?. A marriage, in my opinion, should be considered genuine until proven otherwise.

It would be like going into prison for a crime until it is proven that you didn't do the crime. In this case "prison" would be to struggle with long periods of separation and / or any other struggles brought with spouse visas applications. The "crime" in this metaphore would be not having a genuine relationship.

There should be a different way to deal with the problem, other than affecting the lives of people with a genuine relationship.

Why do genuine partners have to wait so long until their marriage is approved?. As an example I would think that couples should be allowed to stay together in Australia and that non-genuine partners could be fined and extradicted if the relationship is proven not to be genuine.

In the worst case I would understand if DIMIA would process spouse applications in a short time period, lets say for example not more than 2 months, given the importance of a marriage. But the time it takes is in my opinion too long.

I do feel it is not a good policy to act in this way in regards to marriages, and it causes more harm than good to everyone.

trece.


Originally posted by ptlabs:

I would think Australia's treatment of spouse visa applicants is more "not married until proven so" than the axiom that you mentioned.
trece is offline  
Old Sep 14th 2002, 11:36 am
  #9  
Ex Mod (2002-2005)
 
ptlabs's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2002
Location: NSW
Posts: 5,464
ptlabs has a reputation beyond reputeptlabs has a reputation beyond reputeptlabs has a reputation beyond reputeptlabs has a reputation beyond reputeptlabs has a reputation beyond reputeptlabs has a reputation beyond reputeptlabs has a reputation beyond reputeptlabs has a reputation beyond reputeptlabs has a reputation beyond reputeptlabs has a reputation beyond reputeptlabs has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Spouse Visa: Innocent until proven guilty ?

Trece,

> I still think that it should morally and legaly be "married until proven otherwise",
> in line with "innocent until proven guilty".

If a couple is presumed to be genuine for the purposes of migration, it would make it highly attractive for cheats (like the Masters degree holder who wanted to marry to migrate) to execute their plans.

No country wants her immigration system to be abused, and Australia is no exception.


> Why someone who has married should be considered "not genuinely married"
> until his or her marriage is assesed?.

Because there are enough cheats and fakes around who try and continue to try to abuse the system.


> A marriage, in my opinion, should be considered genuine until proven otherwise.

Ideally, yes, I would agree with you. But in reality is usually harsher than what's ideal.


> As an example I would think that couples should be allowed to stay
> together in Australia and that non-genuine partners could be fined and
> extradicted if the relationship is proven not to be genuine.

I guess Australia thinks it's just too difficult and costly to locate and fine/deport non-genuine couples who intend to abuse the system.


> In the worst case I would understand if DIMIA would process spouse
> applications in a short time period, lets say for example not more than 2
> months, given the importance of a marriage. But the time it takes is in my opinion too long.

I thought DIMIA (or rather the AHC) did process Spouse applications rather expeditiously (unlike the 50-week quotes we keep getting for Skilled Independents).

Peter
ptlabs is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.