PeteY

Wilf, as much as your posts have been more and more useful/objective as time goes on....i just have to pick you up on this one.

Surely this is a personal thing?

Live : I would have thought that this part IS what you make of it. Somone who wants to fail/be miserable/complain about anything will find a way of doing it wherever they go. Someone who WANTS....emphasise WANTS to live thier life in a certain way, with certain outlooks will do it anywhere.

Work: Again...depends what you do. If your an office bod, in IT, law, finance etc; then i would most definatly agree with you, from what i've heard/been told. The UK is probably going to present more work, with more challenges. As an example, a friend who works in IT in oz, says that theres quite a bit of work available, but its all service IT work. There is very little at an enterprise level.
However, trades do well in oz (again, from what i've heard), and there are other professions where you CAN have a worthwhile career. Scientific research (i know we've been here before...but oz really is a world leader in a number of research fields....check out the funding the gov hands out to the research bodies), teaching, police, firebrigade etc. Before you say it....i KNOW i've not lived there; but i know alot of people who do and if they can do it, i damn well can.

Learn: Now....i believe there is little difference in the education standards between oz and UK, at all levels from juniors to unis. Im basing that upon the education of the people I know, and on the "stats" which I've found to date.

Have a laugh and some interest in life in the world: This was the comment that really got me. This is going to be different for everyone. As an example, i live and work in London/Outer London. A certain type of person would love it here. Close to the city, nights out abound, shopping everywhere, close to europe etc. I don't.... I far prefer the more simple, rural kind of pastimes. I like fishing, rock climbing, surfing, walking etc, and yes the Uk can provide this, its not as accessible as it is in oz. Surely you can see that for those who are'nt townies, or who enjoy traveling around foreign cities might prefer the "lifestyle" in oz? And things like the emptyness. I love it. I love being able to pack the car full of the camping gear, go for a two week drive and see just a handful of other people on the whole trip. Let say your in Adelaide. Drive for 3 hours north of the city, and the dull arid country you refer to is all there, all around. No cars, no people, no towns. You get out, theres no noise, no litter, no nasty city smells. I love it.

Maybe 10 years down the line yes i will yearn to get back to the Uk (a country i am very proud to be a citizen of btw, im not running away from it, merely trying to experience somthing different). Doubt it tho...the 8 months i spent in oz were fantastic.

smithone

Sorry Wilf but I don't agree with your generalisation that the UK "is the best place to live, work, learn, and have a laugh".

It all depends what you want out of life and the UK is better suited for some people and NZ/Oz more suited to others.

UK - better career opportunities, aruguably better education but horribly overcrowded and a stressful work environment.

NZ - fewer career oppoortunities, worse education but a very healthy place to live and a great work/life balance.

I'm not saying NZ is better, just different.

I don't think the UK is better, just different.

Each to their own

Wilf

You don't say much I disagree with Pete and just like you have given your view on things, I just gave mine.

You strike me as having particular reasons for going to Oz on top of liking the outdoors - your geology, your family connections, and so your work situation may be more suitable for you than others and you have a foothold here already.

I cannot really separate "live" from "work" because you spend so much time at work (even in paradise) that you had better like it. I have an active mind and could not stand to do a boring job that feels dead end for years. I think you are the same.

I think the average worker will have a more interesting, more rewarding, more challenging (which I see as essential whereas some people just seem to want to vegetate) career in the UK than Oz. The great thing with the UK is that for the average worker there are far far far more opportnuities to change careers and follow your dreams than in Oz. Ozzies go to the UK to become what UK people find commonplace. Exceptions - trades (better off here in Oz although the work is less interesting and varied and lower quality is encouraged) and particular examples like your good self who has opportunities in OZ not available in the UK. Honestly, Pete, even an old fool like me can see that if you want to work in Oz geology, Whitechapel is not the best place to do it.

Learn - I think UK education is the finest in the world at all levels including school and universities. Oz schooling is poor in comparison. Another thing that you may not be taking into account when it comes to scholarship is the access to libraries, museums, and other such places, and access to great European libraries, galleries, etc. The British Museum is used by Greeks to restore the originals of statues, so fine is the collection of plaster casts there (Michaelangelo's David, for example) and the general collection is one of the wonders of the world. The British Library is arguably the best library in the world. South Kensington in London is home to the famous Royal School of Mines. Two of the world's truly great universities are in England. Oz has none of this and never will have. Great teachers and thinkers will not go to Oz to live so far away from it all. If they do, they will soon feel out of it all, like everyone does here. Clever Ozzies leave, not stay, and they do not go back, though they always "mean to one day". It is the same for NZ, and even more so. I remember reading that the famous philosopher Karl Popper went to NZ for a while because of the Nazis but he soon got out when he could and moved to the UK. Sorry Pete, but it is a joke to think that Oz comes anywhere near the UK for such things. It is, to be frank, laughable. Perhaps OZ will be something one day, but let's give it 1000 years or so first and then see.

Having a laugh - Yes, personal, but I cannot understand anyone who thinks the Ozzies have much of a sense of humour. Most of their day to day jokes revolve around piss takes, which is a small section of UK humour, and they slip over the line into offensiveness very easily and quickly. Their humour is limited and you can see it in their few good films and TV programmes, all with basically the same joke. I think the general Ozzie outlook is very limited and they have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to the rest of the world and so are not comfortable unless making others the butt of the joke. When you get to the UK, you can have a laugh everywhere, unless you are a miserable perisher, and you find people enjoy lots of different types of jokes and humour.

Interest in life - personal, I agree. I have grown bored with the limited fare here and one bit of Oz is much the same (culturally mainly but also the people) as anywhere else. For you it is still new.

I will pinch somehting from PB that I agree with. It is people that are important not places and you would never get all this genuine funny banter, debate, to and fro on anything other than a Brit forum. HAve a look at the yank forums or Ozzie ones and fall asleep.

Florida_03

I'll just give my personal view from my experience of being involved in numerous Goverment funded research programs, the last of which was to the tune of A$50M.

The majority of the money is wasted on administration and management activities. The coal face research activity is treated as secondary to the business development, marketing and other associated "value adding" activities. I have seen millions of dollars put into research programs and at the end all to show was a few business bods driving new four-wheel drives.

Australia is developing expertise in biotechnology and I hope these programs receive recognition and adequate funding. Just hope the suits and bow-ties keep their unctuous mits out of the pot.

grahamclan

Not by as much as Wilf is suggesting. I found this from a search:
http://www.pisa.oecd.org/News/PISA20...NewZealand.pdf

jarv

See !!! a bit of reverse psychology, works every time. Just like a lot of your posts.

Vegemite Sarnie

Wilf - I've looked through loads of your old posts, just trying to understand why you want to get so many people offside. Why do you so enjoy upsetting people and thrusting your opinions on them?

Why can't you just accept that people are different? What is not working for you, may work for other people. Your single minded devotion to slagging off peoples dreams as well as an entire culture and continent leave me really troubled.

Perhaps your dream has soured, and you no longer feel in control of your own destiny. That is still no reason to try and ruin everyone elses. It's a shame that the only way you can salve your own bitterness is by pouring scalding oil on the dreams of others.

Don

Have you looked at the early Wilfo or shall we say the 'Blue Period'?

chris hogan

Wilf,
My Father-in-law was very similar to you,lived inaus 30+years but loved and missed u.k.Iwas lucky enough to know him for 16 years before he passed away,he hated aus and its people but the u.k.that he left behind was not the same one he returned to.

My parents likewise arrived in Aus1965 and left 1971 when i was 10 years old,I can clearly remember my parents saying"I am going to pull the plug on this bloody place when we sail out of Adelaide".For 32 years I have listened to their regrets on leaving.

Fortunatley I married an Aussie 18 years ago and have foolishly rejected her aussie ideals(but not her advances as we have 5 wonderful kids together )to my loss I now feel.

I was kept out of work for 12 years due to our main industry shipbuilding(Cammell lairds)being closed down by a tory govt.they destroyed most major Industry in the north and are likely to gain control again.I was made redundant twice before I was 19 .I have no desire to place my kids in that position ,but they have learned like me that if you are willing to work hard you will be properly rewarded.

This country isnow run from Brussels with the U.S. still trying to muscle in.At the working class/streetlevel it is run by the underworld trust me I lived it.
It is due to my colourful opposition to it that it is now time to take my kids away from it,for all our safety.I am fortunate that I married an Aussie and can hopefully utilise the spouse visa,if Iam not refused because of a criminal record for protecting my family,whilst the real criminals walked away scot free(one with compensation that I had to pay,for them forcing their way into my house past a pregnant wife).So if and when you do return to this country if you become a "victim of crime"then roll over and take it like a man because you have no rights as a victim unless you are the perpitrator

Yours Chris

chippy

I sense great bitterness here Chris, and my God mate, I don't blame you one little bit.

I don't know all the details obviously, but from what I can see here, I would say that if I were in your position I think I would have done the same thing and felt the same way.

It is your fundamental RIGHT to protect your family by any means. This kind of rough justice makes me sick to my stomach.

I do have a horrible feeling that you won't be allowed into Aus with this record. How long ago did this thing happen? ie is the 'crime' spent.

cam the man

I have thought long and hard before answering this thread.

I am new to this forum (although not the idea of moving to Oz)

The BIG dilema for me - and most I imagine - is that we will be leaving behind the people who make our lives what they are, our families and friends.

I personally do not take this matter lightly and even now I have my doubts about moving but.....

I have graver doubts about the future of the UK and how my children will grow up and what society they will grow up into. Having read PB and Wilf it strikes me that the UK they left or knew is gone and has been replaced with a different place or will be soon.

This does not make what they say any less important - in fact is is more important that we all hear what is reality from as many people as possible so we do not delude ourselves into being something it is not. Their comments have to be taken with this in mind.

That being said I still think that the future for my children will be brighter in Oz than in the UK.

southerner

I haven't been on here much - but seems to me that Wilf finally did wither away as he promised he would.

As one of the ones who actually quite enjoyed most of his contributions, I would love to just know that the old rogue is OK and didn't come to any harm in his favourite party town, Wellington.

Does anyone have any news of Wilf?



ps. this is not meant to be a "come back Wilf" post.

jeannie

And Pommie Bastard left us to ............confused:

Florida_03

"Just be careful for what you wish for
Someday it might be yours
It's never easy escaping the future
Wipe your feet before you come through that door"

jandjuk

he's probably been abducted by those strange people in the streets of Johnsonville....