Originally Posted by king kong

im far from middle class , have aboriginals defacating in the park down the road daily . yes i know how they behave . pales into insignificants what was done to their people though and if you dont like what i say dont read it , its a free country and im entitled to my opinion and you can be assured id say it to your face to .

Originally Posted by billyboy1

King Kong I suppose you understand them do you? I would love to know how, as I deal with aborigines every day and I sure as hell don't.

Originally Posted by billyboy1

I have never said I don't like what you have to say (I don't care that much), or suggested you are not entitled to your opinion, I just don't agree with it that's all, but that's fine.

You are clearly very passionate about helping indigenous people, which is highly commendable, so why don't you offer one of those aboriginals who frequent your local park your spare room, so you can put your money where your mouth is and do your bit for indigenous issues?

With regards to 'saying it to my face' I did not realize we were in a school playground.

Originally Posted by king kong

Ok maybe mugabe is a despot

Originally Posted by MartinLuther

So, moving on from the past and into possible future solutions here's one. I've not thought it through in great detail so if you shoot holes in it, I don't care.

In today's world we're not going to get rid of the Australian State (i.e. the sovereign one recognised by the UN and other countries). So people banging on about reversing migration, invasions, etc... are barking down a dark alley. We're not seriously going to send the English back to Germany.

So why not create another Australian State (as in sub-fedral government) which is the aboriginal state? It's land can be all the current undisputed aboriginal land trusts spread throughout Aus. Disputed ones could possibly added later although I suspect Perth should remain part of WA.

The state's government could be organised where members of the lower house would represent a tribe or collection of tribes and maybe the upper chamber could represent a land trust area or collection of land trust areas. (However, they can organise it however they want, it's their state.) At federal level the state would supply senators in the normal fashion. Not sure how the electoral boundaries for MHRs would work but I'm sure something could be worked out (probably something similar to what's been described for the state government above). As with other states they would be responsible for things like education, police, state law, licencing, budget, etc... Initially funding would have to come from the federal government but I don't see this as being fundamentally different to the funding and assistance provided to some states just after federation.

Anyway. I could go on but I'll see how that stands up so far.

Originally Posted by pgtips

Martin Luther,

I think the situation is too far gone to think about seperate states.
Too many mixed people, ie white/aboriginal background, etc.
Personally I see the way forward as a truely intigrated Australia, where every man woman and child has equal opportunities regardless if race or creed.
I would get rid of the aboriginal settlements and let them intergrate into main stream society, becoming truely part of the modern day Australia.
Australia has evolved too much to go back to a seperate aboriginal state, but their history should still be respected and valued as an important part of Australia.

Separation just causes suspicion, wars and strife.

This all starts with education. Educate the people of Australia that the Aboriginies are just as valuable a part of society as everyone else, and make the aborigines truely feel valued and wanted.

At least this would be a start.

Originally Posted by mohogony

In a small way back i nthe 80's and 90's they tried to create sort of a sperate Aboriginal state with ATSIC, where Aborigines voted for their own politicans to rule themselves on their own land and it was given over $1 billion a year in taxpayers money, but it was a total disaster and disbanded, a few corrupt Aboriginies at the top took alot of the money for themselves and threatened anyone who exposed them and left all the other aborgines in poverty.

Originally Posted by king kong

i dont wish for anyone to be destroyed and we all know who has been doing the destroying dont we ? Its not a doomsday scenario at all the aboriginal people of this country would welcome the leaving of the white people ,no doubt like they welcomed them when they arrived untill the whites got greedy and took what they wanted at all cost .
Im saying it how it is , you just cant see it .I am white but just because my opinion varies from the greed ridden general population of australia doesnt make it any less credible .
Places like zimbabwe have done it , south africa has done it .Ok maybe mugabe is a despot and south africa is a shambles but at least there isnt somekind of de-facto apartheid system operating under the guise of ''we are trying to do the right things by the aborigine''.
As ive said before the aborigine is less trusted by just about everyone in this country including other nations that have come here , the reason is because they dont understand them , they dont understand their beliefs , they dont understand their family system .They look down on them because they never invented the wheel . They look down on them because they dont want to fit into this society .
I dont know what the answer is but i do know what their answer is .

Originally Posted by MartinLuther

I once thought that there was no solution to the Northern Ireland situation. That they were too opposed to come to any common workable solution. Although the peace process is not complete I would say the situation is a lot better now than then.

As for mixed race people I don't see a problem. I was not suggesting any compulsion that someone with aboriginal history must become a member of the new state. It's their choice just as someone who's family hails from NSW can chose to live in Victoria.

Integration has been attempted for longer than the federal government has been in existence and it's fair to say that it has been less than successful and in some cases shameful. I can't see how, even with Australia's multicultural framework how the traditional culture can be blended with the "modern" other than allowing them to run side by side within a common framework of equal opportunity. I can't see how you can force integration without paternalism. And I can't see how this can be successful where it has so dramatically failed in the past.

I'm sure initially there will be a period of unrest and suspicion although I doubt war. The early federation was no different. But on the plus side Aus actually has a good record of peaceful governance change.

Originally Posted by aussietobe

Oh dear, another Aussie bashing episode. Why don't you study Indigenous Studies at university and come up with a plan to help them? Money is thrown at the problem, believe me, but they have to want to change themselves. Personally, I think babies and children should be taken out of these communities, political correctness be damned.

Originally Posted by mohogony

A seperate Aborignal state won't work becasue Aborigines are not one people, before white settlment there were hundreds of different Aboriginal tribes owning their own territory , each with a seperate languages and laws, Australia was made up of many different countries , In the Northern territory when they put different tribes together they often fight each other. Most Aboriginies don't want a seperate state they just want back the traditional land their own tribe used to own.

Originally Posted by king kong

ah well may as well turn this into a bash a bung thread .seems the most popular of sports for those that cant see that a few tax payers dollars for payment of of the rape and pillage is a small price to pay for a destruction of a culture .put it this way ,if your child ,you mother ,your father ,your family ,your race was butchered .what would you want ? ill tell you shall i JUSTICE ,theres no justice in white mans law for the aboriginal .

Originally Posted by pgtips

Martin Luther,

I think the situation is too far gone to think about seperate states.
Too many mixed people, ie white/aboriginal background, etc.
Personally I see the way forward as a truely intigrated Australia, where every man woman and child has equal opportunities regardless if race or creed.
I would get rid of the aboriginal settlements and let them intergrate into main stream society, becoming truely part of the modern day Australia.
Australia has evolved too much to go back to a seperate aboriginal state, but their history should still be respected and valued as an important part of Australia.

Separation just causes suspicion, wars and strife.

This all starts with education. Educate the people of Australia that the Aboriginies are just as valuable a part of society as everyone else, and make the aborigines truely feel valued and wanted.

At least this would be a start.