fnord

As this is my first post, so a little intro: I'm a Kiwi who's lived in various places (Italy, Spain) but have been living in London for about 12 years. My wife (from Peru) and I have recently had children. My son is 2 and a half and my daughter is 11 months. Although it is a little early to tell, my son has all the signs of being highly sensitive (which I can relate to).

We have been thinking seriously about moving to Oz, mostly to be closer to my parents in NZ (no, we don't really want to go to NZ), more space, outdoor lifestyle, better food. Our top options so far are Brisbane (relatives, cheaper housing) or Melbourne (cooler, more cosmopolitan, better IT job prospects).

However, our plans suddenly stalled when a Kiwi friend of mine, a fellow London resident, made me question our idea. Basically his argument is that a sensitive, intelligent and quiet child like my son (and, to a lesser extent, his son) would get stomped on in NZ or Oz. The macho attitude, the "tall poppy" syndrome and so on, would not be helpful to a sensitive child.

Both he and I suffered from those sorts of attitudes at High School, (which is one of the reasons we left NZ) and as far as he's concerned, he's not subjecting his 2 kids to that. I was hoping that Oz, with its bigger population and more positive and open outlook (relative to Dunedin, NZ anyway) would mean his fears are unfounded.

I'm still keen to go but not if it is detrimental to my son. Any thoughts?

Ian12

Hmmmm an interesting question and the short answer is I dont know. My partner certainly experienced the type of thing you refer to growing up in Oz and that is partly what drove *him to the UK for almost 20 years. The * was the other part of his difficulty! It was me that wanted to give Oz a try and we have two adopted sons. I think Australia has changed a lot in the last 10 - 15 years. Whilst there seems to be more emphasis on outdoorsy things (to be expected given the good weather) such as sport, it strikes me that there are other interest groups around where a child less "rough and tumble" may feel at home. There would appear to be a good arts scene in the schools with many first class performances. In the end it depends upon the child - and you. If you are still haunted by your own childhood and not fitting in, that could well be communicated to your child. In turn the child could become fearful or more fearful. I would say give it a go and if you begin to get worried, I would think about taking talking to a professional therapist, ideally someone who understands where you are coming from.

fnord

Yes, I think that it will have a lot to do with the school, the area, and the encouragement from parents and so on. I'm pretty sure I would have had an easier time if the school I went to wasn't so sport focused and was more keen on students excelling academically.

As far as my attitude, I think that as irrevocably changed after marriage, kids and 15 years away from NZ. Your viewpoint soon changes when you’re thought of as a sporty type in the UK because I played sport 3 times a week whereas in NZ I felt the opposite because I wasn't playing rugby

I’m hoping, as you say, that there is more to Oz than sport and BBQs. I was glad to see that there's an equivalent to BBC Radio 4 (ABC Radio National) and from what I've seen of "Kath and Kim", the Ozzies can do sitcoms which poke fun at themselves. A good sign in my book

jad n rich

Australias now got good anti bullying policies in the state schools. Private vary according to their own rules.

My youngest is not the least into rough sport as in aussie rules etc and he has been in classes where hes the only boy like that, and yes it was difficult. However hes quite eccentric and at the age of seven got sick of the tough guys and took up surfing, grew his hair long which amusingly is white and is now one of the coolest kids in school. Just train him up in a sport other than the rough and tough, and he will have an answer to the meatheads.

The male sport teachers have been great with him, never picking on him, but one female teacher really gave him a hard time, we complained like hell she has no right to pick on a person because they are tall skinny and not remotely interested in running around playing rough league in 36 degrees which it was the day we ended up complaining about her.

Un-Co

Looking at it from another angle, I grew up in London and personally would never bring a child up there. I'm not Britain Bashing, I'd happily have kids outside any of the major cities if I were to go back. You get good and bad in every place but I think the benefits for kids in Auatralia far outweigh the drawbacks. And it is a matter of finding the right school. Best of luck with everything

NickyC

Neither of my sons (now 16 and 18) have ever been remotely into sport and they both happily gave away all PDHPE/Sport at school as soon as it was possible. The younger one admits that he's a true nerd - his computer is his one and only love at the moment. They're not in a minority - there are plenty of other kids around, just like them!

They both go (well, the older one has just left) to a big, traditional, private boys' school in Sydney - one of those which supposedly has a strong reputation for sport. Neither of them was ever picked on or bullied in any way for not fitting the sporty 'stereotype'. The school, like all others I know, also have a VERY strong anti-bullying policy.

Their school (same as all other schools) value academic, art, music and drama achievement in just the same way as they value sporting achievement. What sane parent would send their kids to a school that only promoted sport to the detriment of everything else?

Like anywhere, there are all shapes and sizes of kids here. Sure, some kids ARE good at sport (same as some kids are good at sport in the UK) but there are just as many who aren't. It's a myth that ALL Australian children are big, muscular sporty types - don't believe it.

JAJ

Not quite on the topic of what you asked, but if you are planning to go to Australia then you need to look hard at whether you can get permanent resident status. NZ citizens need to get PR before they can access some important rights, including sponsoring a spouse for permanent residence. There is a temporary visa for which you can sponsor a spouse, but you may not want your spouse on this visa long term.

General skilled (points tested) and employer nomination are the usual ways for NZ citizens to get permanent residence in Australia.

If you and your wife have not got British citizenship, you should consider naturalisation before you think of leaving the UK. Your wife might well lose Peru citizenship but that may not be important.

Assuming you got indefinite leave to remain (ILR) before they were born, your children are British citizens even if you are not (if you obtained ILR later they can be registered as British).

Jeremy

luvit

We came to OZ 3 years ago with a 2 children (7 and 2). The 7 year old is fine and always has been confident but we had reservations about the 2 year old, he was very quiet, reserved and could be sensitive and emotional and found it hard to mix with children and adults. He was quite a happy boy to play alone or with his brother. On arrival the 2 year old stayed at home with me then eased him into a private day care centre, then I got a job and he attended day care full time - now 3 years on he is a happy, playful child who enjoys the company of others and has progressed so well - we are quite proud of him. He still can be shy and reserved but no where near as much as when we arrived. I feel Oz has done him good.

fnord

Thanks for that, it's something I'll have to double check. We both have bristish citizenship so that's OK. I thought that as an NZer I automatically get a Special Category Visa on arrival. My plan was after arriving I'd apply for PR. Is there much advantage getting it all sorted beforehand?

Actually, that's the least of my worries what with pensions, ISA, house, schools... oh, and a job

Stormz

We`ve been in the UK for over 10 years, and are going back in June as we have a little baby and another on the way. We feel it`s important for the bratlets to have their Grandparent`s/cousins/aunts/uncles around as they are growing up. It`s also important for the grandparents.

Therefore I`d say you should be closer to where your parents are, as that would instill more confidence etc into your boy. I wouldn`t worry about the sport thing too much.... I`m sure it`s the same in the UK where you must be weird if you don`t like playing football

moneypenny20

Don't want to start an argument but I have to disagree with this statement. It is obviously important in your situation but unfortunately not everyone has the same family relationships. My children have very little to do with either set of grandparents, dearly love one set but very rarely see them. The most important thing for any child is to be with their closest family where they are all happy.

Also, there are many many people in the UK (and the rest of the world) who do not enjoy participating or watching any sports - I have never heard them called wierd. May be we mix with different types of people but the schools my children attend, are very very proud of all students whether because of their sporting achievements or drama, scientific, IT skills. They don't even necessarily have to be brilliant but they are all praised and encouraged.

To the OP I would say that provided you give your child the love and encouragement you obviously do, it doesn't matter what country you bring them up in, you just have to let them go with the flow and try your best not to pass on (even subconsciously) your own bad vibes and worries about school.

ali south

I am a teacher in London, I now advise for the local education authority n over 200 schools for children with special needs, some of these kids are delicate or sensitive, well all of them really. I think from this point of view and from my experience in the classroom that I have a balanced ideas of schools. I work with kids from 2 to 19 years old. I am not Britain bashing either, however you have not yet (I presume) let your children out into the public domain as they are so young. It is my personal opinion that you should take your children out of London, I am doing this and mine are teenagers, I should have done it years ago. I am trying to be objective when I write this but for the safety of your family and the sanity of your son go to Australia or somewhere other than London. This said, I have never lived in Australia so I cannot comment from the other side of the fence.
Hope that helps
Tara

ali south

I agree totally

but there are some terrible social and behavioural problems that a child will have to deal with as they become more independent. Schools and London environments are a tough place

On the note of grand parents, we are just taking our kids away from theirs, this is the hardest decision that we have ever had to make
Tara

fnord

Good points. I'd say, in our case, my children have certainly benefited from grandparents, have bonded well and have missed them when they've gone. It makes it harder when both sets of grandparents are in different parts of the planet. Going to Oz will make it easier to see my parents but I have to be realistic that it will be twice a year at most. However, that's better than three times in the last 15 years. This didn't bother me until the kids were born.

I think you and other posters are also correct that I'm probably worrying over nothing simply because someone reminded me of my high school life 25 years ago in one of the tougher schools in a small city in NZ as a child taught to turn the other cheek.

I have also been re-evaluating my thoughts about my son after reading these posts and talking to my wife. He does have some sensitive traits (likes classical music, dancing, flora and fauna, gets upset when other around him are upset) but since starting nursery recently (2 mornings a week) he has become more outgoing and confident. I think that as long as we instil a confidence in him and try to insure he has an inner strength to defend himself, he'll do well.

ali south

Your son sounds like a lovely child, my son who now plays rugby and has been head hunted by our county to play used to be so sensitive, he would cry if others were crying, he was a real baby for many years, he has grown into a sensitive young man (14!) who is popular because of his sensitivity with both boys and girls, I still cannot believe he is tough enough to play rugby and that he has such a great range of mates.

I guess it just shows that you never know how your children will turn out, I hope that he has turned out so well because inherently he is a good person, but I also believe it was the support and guidance we gave him

Good luck with your decision
Tara