Swerv-o

I agree - I think the porkies told over the finances will now be Abbott's undoing. I don't think it was unreasonable for Wilkie to join up with Labour - he ran for the Greens previously, so is certainly left of centre, but I can't see how any of the independents can support the Liberals now. It would be crazy to do so!

Though Abbott started to look like a much more professional statesman in the last weeks of the campaign, I think he looks like a fool now. And I would suggest that Hockey's fingerprints all over the financial details would probably exclude him as the next choice for leader.


S

Wol

As I've said before, it's dysfunctional because of the way the whole process is set up.

In my own voting paper there were 84 candidates. I had heard of fewer than a handful, and knew the policies of only three of *them*. My choice was to rank every single one 1 to 84, have my vote disallowed because I didn't, or to place "1" in the box above a party vote.

None of those choices is, in my opinion, a democratic choice. If I numbered each of the 84 I would be effectively ranking some 80-odd in a completely random order since I knew nothing about them. If I voted for say two, I would have my vote disallowed. And if I just put my "1" above a party I would potentially have my vote go not merely to someone I don't know but to someone I wouldn't have selected in a thousand years,

No system is perfect, but they seem to have gone out of their way to construct a voting system that is labyrinthine, and almost undemocratic.

ex_exile

Ah, the Steve Fielding problem, Fielding only got 284 direct votes but managed to get elected to the senate anyway on Labor preferences. Senate voting has some real problems.

It also makes it more difficult for Abbott (or Hockey) to win a revote, they now have an economic record that can be attacked that goes to credibility and truthfulness of any future election promises.

MartinLuther

It's a job that he would be good at.

MartinLuther

You're talking about the senate! That's not what's causing the current situation. Do you not understand the difference between the upper and lower houses?

The current situation is what happens when you have a close seat call with no overall majority within the Westminster system. This is all to do with the lower house.

Sorry Rog. I'm shaking my head slowly.

Wol

Fair enough - but I'm talking about the system as a whole, not merely the present impasse.

MartinLuther

We previously agreed that the senate voting system is pony but I wouldn't say it was dysfunctional. I'm quite happy with the Reps system. It's obviously not delivering instant gratification but without e-voting there will always be instances when the count takes time. Not that the count is causing the current impasse.

Broad Shoulders

I would say that the very fact that Fielding could be a Senator shows that there is some dysfunction in there somewhere. The guy is not just incompetent, but also incredibly thick

MartinLuther

I think all systems throw out problem children from time to time. But I think the senate system should be improved. I would change it to a non-compulsory preference (i.e. you only number as far as you want and then your vote dies).

Just FYI: Fielding was my 60/60. I was doing my bit to try and stop him from returning.

IvanM

My problem with the Senate voting is you have to order 80 odd candidates for the vote to count. Either that or vote above the line and hope they have done a deal that avoids the idiots like Fielding.

This means most people vote above the line and inadvertantly vote for someone they do not like. Below the line takes forever and how many people know the parties there.

The knock on affect is that it is hard to vote out someone and parties can keep undesirables in the Senate.

Fielding is a religious right linked with Hillsong. Without him Labour would not consider an internet filter. The Liberals filter policy is to carry on what they did before. A teenager hacked their previous filter within hours.

MartinLuther

It's bizarre voting below the line. Out of 60, I ended up with One Nation at something like 49 and 50. I couldn't believe they ended up so high but below them were Fielding and his mates along with the Shoot-em up party and various other nutters.

Broad Shoulders

There have been so many things that have made me just chuckle at how thick that guy is.

Like how Sen Xenaphon managed to be the lynchpin voter when Labor was trying to push through the first round of the Stimulus Package a few years back. He knew he had the swing vote, so cleverly negotiated with the Govt for some of the package to go to the Murray Darling Basin, which falls in his region.

I was just picturing at the time watching Fielding think "now why didn't I think of doing that?".

Sure enough, a few months later when Labor tried to push through the Alcopop tax, there was Fielding hell bent on holding the govt to ransom. I can't remember what he was angling for, but ended up voting against the bill because Labor wouldn't bow to his demands, even though you would think a higher tax on alcopops would be exactly what Family First would be supportive of!

Then, the mother of all dumb ass public displays. He approaches the Australian Sex Party to get their preferences for this election

MartinLuther

I had a bit of a giggle at the last. Maybe he thought "you can't have a family without sex".

IvanM

Imagine the Sex, Fishing, Shooting and Fielding in together!

ex_exile

1-5 was easy enough as was 74-84, its the middle 70 thats the problem