Schools! State V Private
#77
Re: Schools! State V Private
The fee range of $3-20k per year, with Catholic schools at the lower "affordable" range of the private school spectrum - does this mean one has to be of religious bias in order to have their kids attending these schools?
What if we are not religious as such and do not bring up our kids in that regard (morals yes, religion specifically no) - do our kids still have to attend Christianity (or any other?) religious classes as part of the Catholic school curriculum?
What if we are not religious as such and do not bring up our kids in that regard (morals yes, religion specifically no) - do our kids still have to attend Christianity (or any other?) religious classes as part of the Catholic school curriculum?
#78
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 106
Re: Schools! State V Private
Private schools in Australia are much morewidely used than in the UK. Here in Brisbane I believe the figure is around 40% of kids go to some kind of private school.
Thats not to say that private schools necessarily give you a better education.
Catholic school are the largest group of private schools and they are focused on providing education within a context of a catholic religious environment (whatever that means) - and try to keep their fees aslow as possible so they are available to all memebrs of the catholic community. (Typically fees are in the $4-$6k a year range).
There are of course some 'elite' schools - which excel academically, but with fees at $12-$15k a year (+uniform, +excursions, +++) you have to figure they'd want to be doing something pretty special - and there is the risk that your child will be rubbing shoulders with some realy nasty spoilt kids and come home with that "Sophie got a BMW for *her 17th birthday - why cant *I* have a car daddy? Its *soooo* unfair" attitude!
Quality of state schools does vary enormously - and some state schools achieve results better than thsoe at some of the more expensive private schools. Like anywhere - you need to look at the schools and work out which is best option for the area you're in! Our local stats school is the best performing state school in Brisbane (and has been top 5 since they started publishing results) - so our girls will be going there and we'll spend the $150K we'll save on stuff that'll be eductaionaly useful like TRAVEL!!!!!
FWIW: Uniforms in state schools here in Brisbane are every bit as strict as those as private schools...
Thats not to say that private schools necessarily give you a better education.
Catholic school are the largest group of private schools and they are focused on providing education within a context of a catholic religious environment (whatever that means) - and try to keep their fees aslow as possible so they are available to all memebrs of the catholic community. (Typically fees are in the $4-$6k a year range).
There are of course some 'elite' schools - which excel academically, but with fees at $12-$15k a year (+uniform, +excursions, +++) you have to figure they'd want to be doing something pretty special - and there is the risk that your child will be rubbing shoulders with some realy nasty spoilt kids and come home with that "Sophie got a BMW for *her 17th birthday - why cant *I* have a car daddy? Its *soooo* unfair" attitude!
Quality of state schools does vary enormously - and some state schools achieve results better than thsoe at some of the more expensive private schools. Like anywhere - you need to look at the schools and work out which is best option for the area you're in! Our local stats school is the best performing state school in Brisbane (and has been top 5 since they started publishing results) - so our girls will be going there and we'll spend the $150K we'll save on stuff that'll be eductaionaly useful like TRAVEL!!!!!
FWIW: Uniforms in state schools here in Brisbane are every bit as strict as those as private schools...
We are coming to Brisbane in September with 2 daughters 4 and 14. Found a nice school in "The Gap", as your living there could you tell me if its a good school??? Only if you know anything about it???
We also have family living in Middle Park.
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Lisa
#79
...giving optimism a go?!
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Brisbane (leafy, hilly western suburbs)
Posts: 2,202
Re: Schools! State V Private
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
#80
Re: Schools! State V Private
Is education so different if you pay for a private school?
I don't mind paying for high school private education but just wanted to know how different is it from a state school?
Does a child who goes to a state school get teased cos they dont go to a private one?
Any info would be appreciated. Thanks
I don't mind paying for high school private education but just wanted to know how different is it from a state school?
Does a child who goes to a state school get teased cos they dont go to a private one?
Any info would be appreciated. Thanks
I teach in a very popular school and we have huge waiting lists where people put their names down when their kids are born. My youngest is on the waiting list as it is an excellent school but also because it makes sense logistically for all 3 of us to travel to the same school each day but as I said before I have no problem with the local primary school. Entry is by invitation to an interview based on school reports; religion or money don't feature in the selection criteria although as an religious school students and staff are required to attend Eucharist a couple of times a year and Christian studies is compulsory but taught from a philosophical point of view. The main focus for entry is on behaviour, merits, attitude and school attendance, they like to see extra curricular and community involvement and look for evidence of progress on the reports but by no means is entry based purely on academic prowess.
My house group is year 11, I teach from year 4 right up to the high school and my students are lovely, well mannered and articulate, they are not brow beaten by any means but they know the rules and respect them. Like any school you get the odd few that will try it on but any inappropriate behaviour is nipped in the bud consequently repeat offenders are extremely rare.
To be fair I have not worked in a state school in Oz but the stories from my teacher colleagues within and outside school are quite worrying. The most frequent complaints I hear from other teachers are concerning the lack of discipline and respect in the classroom and the inability to do anything significant in cases of bullying and discrimination this obviously results in more time spent dealing with behaviour issue when they should be teaching. I am able to spend 100% of my teaching time teaching as I don't have any behaviour problems to deal with. We do have special needs children and several support programs in place we also stream Maths and English which works really well. I suppose the stories of the BMW's and snobbery must come from somewhere but it is not the case at my school.
At the end of the day, I would say that if you have a good state school in your area go for it if you don't and can afford it go private but ultimately it boils down to personal choice and personal politics.
Just my opinion as a high school teacher and a parent nothing more.
#81
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 94
Re: Schools! State V Private
Dear Ace,
I am also a teacher and currently teach in an independent school which has a student body who have pretty much the same outlook on education as those in your school. My family and I have just been granted our PR visas and will look to make the big move in a couple of years. Could you give me any advice on what I should do in preparation for applying for posts in independent schools in Australia? I'm thinking about whether I need to get my qualifications checked and or what might be required as far as references are concerned, other than the usual.
Cheers
H.
I am also a teacher and currently teach in an independent school which has a student body who have pretty much the same outlook on education as those in your school. My family and I have just been granted our PR visas and will look to make the big move in a couple of years. Could you give me any advice on what I should do in preparation for applying for posts in independent schools in Australia? I'm thinking about whether I need to get my qualifications checked and or what might be required as far as references are concerned, other than the usual.
Cheers
H.
#82
Banned
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 697
Re: Schools! State V Private
Okay, I can see the merits of the "I only want to give my kids the best possible start in life" approach. But if your kids go to to private schools and, say, one day they came home with a boyfriend/girlfriend from the local public school, how would you feel then? Could you truly say you weren't a snob?
80% of people who send there children to private schools are normal hard working , and are just trying to do there best.
There choice.
My eldest daughter went to a grammar school at 14000 pounds a yr. It paid of for us she has a good job in accountancy and is a very confident person. would this of been the same if she had gone to state, who knows, but i did not take the chance.
She has know met and living with a partner, who is in the plastering trade, from state school . She happy, were happy , no problems. we never expected her to come home with prince harry.
80% of people who send there children to private schools are normal hard working , and are just trying to do there best.
There choice.
My eldest daughter went to a grammar school at 14000 pounds a yr. It paid of for us she has a good job in accountancy and is a very confident person. would this of been the same if she had gone to state, who knows, but i did not take the chance.
She has know met and living with a partner, who is in the plastering trade, from state school . She happy, were happy , no problems. we never expected her to come home with prince harry.
The irony!!!
When you stated that your privately educated daughter was with a plasterer (my daughter lives with a self-employed builder) and then try and defend this by saying "we never expected her to come home with prince harry" as if Harry meets the criteria of being brainy as well as priveleged I burst out laughing.
You couldn't have picked a worse example. Here was a young man who went to the most elite public school in the world and emerged with 2 A'levels, a grade B and D in Geography and Art. Furthermore it was alleged, although never proven, that his Art teacher may have unfairly assisted him in attaining that grade.
If there was ever a case that going private is a waste of money and that a child's school exam results are pretty much pre-determined by their genetic make-up rather than the type of school they attend, this pretty much proves the point.
I reiterarate what I said earlier that my kids went to the local comp and had they gone private I don't believe their GCSEs and A'level results would have been any better (they're so easy to pass with flying colours these days except in the case of Prince Harry)and I save thousands of pounds by making the sensible choice.
#84
...giving optimism a go?!
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Brisbane (leafy, hilly western suburbs)
Posts: 2,202
#85
Re: Schools! State V Private
Dear Ace,
I am also a teacher and currently teach in an independent school which has a student body who have pretty much the same outlook on education as those in your school. My family and I have just been granted our PR visas and will look to make the big move in a couple of years. Could you give me any advice on what I should do in preparation for applying for posts in independent schools in Australia? I'm thinking about whether I need to get my qualifications checked and or what might be required as far as references are concerned, other than the usual.
Cheers
H.
I am also a teacher and currently teach in an independent school which has a student body who have pretty much the same outlook on education as those in your school. My family and I have just been granted our PR visas and will look to make the big move in a couple of years. Could you give me any advice on what I should do in preparation for applying for posts in independent schools in Australia? I'm thinking about whether I need to get my qualifications checked and or what might be required as far as references are concerned, other than the usual.
Cheers
H.
Congratulations on the PR
All teachers in Australia have to be registered with The college of teaching relevant to their state of residence. Our registration body here is The Western Australian College of Teaching.
http://www.wacot.wa.edu.au/
I emailed and spoke to them on the phone before I came over and they were very helpful. Basically you can not teach anywhere without registration so that will be the first thing you will need to sort out.
In order to get registration you will need to have 4 years of university training i.e a 3 year BA or BSc and 1 year post grad, Masters etc or a 4 year BA or BSc.
The other thing you will need is a Working with Children Check Card
http://www.checkwwc.wa.gov.au/checkwwc
You will also have to pass a medical examination.
When you are ready to start looking for a job try The Association of Independent Schools of Western Australia
http://www.ais.wa.edu.au/jobs-independent-schools/
You could also pop into your local private school with a CV and sign up to do a bit of relief work to see if you like the school. The pay is pretty good for relief around $260 to $300 a day so certainly worth doing.
I was very lucky with my job as I just happened to phone the school to ask if they had any vacancies on the day that the principal had decided to advertise for a Maths/ Info Tech teacher. when I told him my qualifications he asked me to come in the next day. By the following week I was doing relief, a month later I was on contract and two weeks into my contract they offered me a permanent position.
ACE
Last edited by ACE; Apr 11th 2008 at 2:55 pm.
#87
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 94
Re: Schools! State V Private
Ace Old Chap,
Thank you very much for the congratulations and the extremely useful and prompt reply. As you can imagine we are all absolutely delighted. I shall get on with the registration process right away. By the way I'm also a maths teacher.
Cheers
H.
Thank you very much for the congratulations and the extremely useful and prompt reply. As you can imagine we are all absolutely delighted. I shall get on with the registration process right away. By the way I'm also a maths teacher.
Cheers
H.
#88
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,225
Re: Schools! State V Private
The irony!!!
When you stated that your privately educated daughter was with a plasterer (my daughter lives with a self-employed builder) and then try and defend this by saying "we never expected her to come home with prince harry" as if Harry meets the criteria of being brainy as well as priveleged I burst out laughing.
You couldn't have picked a worse example. Here was a young man who went to the most elite public school in the world and emerged with 2 A'levels, a grade B and D in Geography and Art. Furthermore it was alleged, although never proven, that his Art teacher may have unfairly assisted him in attaining that grade.
If there was ever a case that going private is a waste of money and that a child's school exam results are pretty much pre-determined by their genetic make-up rather than the type of school they attend, this pretty much proves the point.
I reiterarate what I said earlier that my kids went to the local comp and had they gone private I don't believe their GCSEs and A'level results would have been any better (they're so easy to pass with flying colours these days except in the case of Prince Harry)and I save thousands of pounds by making the sensible choice.
When you stated that your privately educated daughter was with a plasterer (my daughter lives with a self-employed builder) and then try and defend this by saying "we never expected her to come home with prince harry" as if Harry meets the criteria of being brainy as well as priveleged I burst out laughing.
You couldn't have picked a worse example. Here was a young man who went to the most elite public school in the world and emerged with 2 A'levels, a grade B and D in Geography and Art. Furthermore it was alleged, although never proven, that his Art teacher may have unfairly assisted him in attaining that grade.
If there was ever a case that going private is a waste of money and that a child's school exam results are pretty much pre-determined by their genetic make-up rather than the type of school they attend, this pretty much proves the point.
I reiterarate what I said earlier that my kids went to the local comp and had they gone private I don't believe their GCSEs and A'level results would have been any better (they're so easy to pass with flying colours these days except in the case of Prince Harry)and I save thousands of pounds by making the sensible choice.
#89
Re: Schools! State V Private
I think if your child WANTS to learn & acheive good grades they will. I don't think private guarantees your child will pass with flying colours but what I want is a school who has a good bullying policy as I think that on its own will affect your child. If children are well disciplined and have respect for each other then a teacher has more time to teach than dealing with emotional issues of bullying.
#90
Banned
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 697
Re: Schools! State V Private
However I'm sure the overiding reason parents pay for private education is because of the belief that their kids will emerge with better exam results.
As I alluded to earlier regarding extra-curricular activities, if you want your kid to play tennis or learn the violin then whats to stop him/her learning it out of school. I also said, that in the UK 93% of school age kids attend state schools so there is a far better mix of people from different backgrounds in state schools than private ones.
My sister-in-law who lives in Bucks where they have grammar schools send her son to a public school in Surrey where he boards at a cost of £25,000 per year which is more than her annual take home pay (she inherited a lot of money which is how she can afford it). She didn't even bother entering her son for the 11+ exam. Although the lad performed well in his GCSEs, I'm sure he could have done equally well at the local grammar school (which of course is free) or at an ordinary comprehensive as he's naturally an intelligent boy.
The only obvious "advantage" I can see from his private school education is that he talks with a plum in his mouth, something he never used to do. Maybe that's what she's paying for, although I would have thought elocution lessons would have been cheaper.
Last edited by Assegai; Apr 12th 2008 at 10:19 am.