NKSK version 2

No, I was being facetious - apologies. They aren't out until Term 3.

The point I was trying to make is that whilst the national tests are certainly a step in the right direction, I would be extremely hesitant about putting so much faith in their ability to improve school accountability before we've seen how informative the reports are.

I'm already concerned that the results, according to the WA website, won't be available until the end of Term 3 - i.e. early October which is a disgrace bearing in mind that the tests were taken in May. Teaching unions have expressed their displeasure at the national tests and the federal government has already removed some of the information to be reported on schools under pressure from interested parties.
The jury will be out on this one for a few months yet and the true test will be when parents arrive in WA and want to compare 5 different schools for their child.

Kim67

I can tell you (and this is not hearsay - I actually have the report on our education file) that state results showed:

- The average result for students in State at this year level.

- Range of results for the middle 50% of students in State at this year level.

- The national benchmark. This is the minimum result expected at this year level.

Your child's results are provided with this information to let you know how they're doing.

NKSK version 2

All good, but I'd want to know:

1. The average result nationally together with state average - minimum is pretty useless for comparison.
2. Some form of school result (which I gather will be included).

Not only this but all of this information needs to be easily avaliable to all parents via the internet - not through a request to each school.

This last point will be the key test. I don't believe that this will happen because the government and the unions will not want the newspapers getting hold of the data to make comparisons. (which is exactly what is needed).

Kim67

Well perhaps you should just wait for the results to come out instead of bagging something you haven't even seen yet.....hate to accuse you of basing your opinion on hearsay.

foxall22

I've been reading this thread with interest and would like to add support for a few other posters. I've taught in UK and WA and can make the following generalised comparisons:

1. Special needs awareness in WA system is more than 10 years behind UK. For example, there is no extra funding available for students with anything other than an intellectual disability.

2. OBE in WA has failed. It is very vague and subjective.

3. The recruitment system in WA (my biggest bugbear) is corrupt and one that gives no incentive for teachers to perform well.

4. The system in the UK is over-prescriptive and teachers have little flexibility and decreasing autonomy in their classrooms.

5. In WA, the career is often a plan B for a student who has failed to get the score required for the first, second, third etc. choice.

Obv this list is simply MHO.
As with any school, in any state, in any country, the quality of teaching depends on the quality of the teacher. Before choosing a school ask to look round, have a tour, ask about behaviour management policy, what support would x get etc. You can get a vibe from face to face contact much better than trying to interpret possibly-inaccurate/uninformative data.

Fox

NB Just to object to the statement 'early years education is terrible in WA' - my current school is excellent!!

whinging_pom

I totally agree.

I certainly don't think it is terrible across the board, I'm actually happy with our school. Indeed my experience of my work colleagues and the youngsters starting (all presumably products of the system here) is that in many cases they are articulate and appear to have had a more balanced education than many in the UK.

I just think they don't do justice to the 3'Rs in the initial years. This is in comparison to my experience in the UK where at our school they had a strucutred phonics based reading system. Here there was no (apparent) structure until year 3 and lots of "sight" words to be memorised when many of them could easily be sounded out. Doing reading roster in class the concept of sounding out was alien to many of the kids in year 2, which simply staggered me. When the structure was introduced it was in the form of a highly complex system and struck me as a huge leap. My experience was that the kids who had been getting taught at home coped great and the ones whose parents hadn't bothered (in general) struggled. That said many did eventually catch up but there still remain a higher proportion of kids with problems than I remember from the UK.

foxall22

That's interesting - a synthetic phonic scheme should be in place from pre-primary up IMHO.

There is less accountability in WA but the emphasis on professional development can be quite low. For example, teachers in regional areas are not only expected to travel to Perth for courses, but are often asked to pay for them personally.

There's a course I'm interested in at the moment, but at $200 for the day, plus $100 in petrol, plus being absolutely knackered for the next day back at work is very off-putting!

It's easy to emphasise the negative - I love the flexibility I have here, and the space, and the increase in parental involvement, and the lack of wet-plays!! Personally, I can 'enjoy' my job more here than ever in the UK, and if that means being able to organise an excursion without having to spend 5 hours completing tedious paperwork then the pros outweigh the cons for me every time!

There is a strong argument for a national curriculum though, I just hope they don't put the UK one on a pedestal.

Fox

NKSK version 2

HELLO?

Do you read the posts or just look for the quick attack?

NKSK version 2

And for conscientious teachers this is great. The difficulty lies with the less than conscientious, the badly led and the complacent.

When I started teaching in the UK in 1993, accountability in schools was just starting to occur. The UK then reminds me of Australia now except that in Australia there is much more resistance to moves to make educators and departments accountable than there was in the UK in the early 90s.

I would never say that the UK has got it absolutely right in terms of the systems used to provide accountability but I certainly think that Australia has got it wrong.

Kim67

I certainly do read the posts - but this thread has strayed so far from the original question in terms of OP getting a balanced answer. While I have agreed with some of what you have said - you still refuse to believe that any child outside of the 5 state schools you have recommended can be getting a quality education. This I think is really misleading the poor old OP and this thread has become your "anti-everything australian because I'm a bitter twisted person trying to blame the Australian government for the choices I've made that haven't turned out to be the way I thought they would, so I'll try and ruin it for everyone who wants to live here" rant.

NKSK version 2

Have you been stalking me?!

NKSK version 2

BTW - just to show that I am balanced in my views of Australia, I like the coffee here.

Kim67

Wouldn't waste my petrol or the rubber on the soles of my shoes. Too boring a subject and since I live outside the catchment of your recommended schools, we'd probably never cross paths anyway.

Kim67

Don't drink it myself so can't comment on it - wish I did though because I'm going to be very tired unless I head off to bed right now. Got 4am start to pack up car and get my poor talentless, uneducated kids off to a ballet comp.

NKSK version 2

Given your tendency to selectively read posts - possibly including your own - you may well have missed the fact that a few days ago you said in a post that you "probably wouldn't send your kids to a state school again".

Hardly a ringing endorsement of state schooling in Perth for the poor old OP in England.....

Or is WA state schooling somehow wrong for your own kids but OK for everybody elses?

Or, in addition to selective reading and a selective chip on your shoulder, are you also able to invert your snobbery at the touch of a button?