Olibeneli

OK folks - here's my new hot potatoe.

Many notes on here say how UK is better than Oz and vice versa for schooling.

First lets set the scene - you just can't do this comparison.

Some schools in the very same county in the UK are cr*p and some are good.......you get good teachers in bad schools and vice versa.

So - very hard to tell how good a school is.

Some schools suit some kids and some don't - some kids are academic, some aren't, etc etc

So how do you make sense of it all ?

Well - that's a question that is impossible to answer with any justification.

What I believe we have to do is give children the tools to learn as much as possible so that they can put themselves ahead of their peer group across the World.

I firmly believe being laid back about teaching children academic subjects will come back to haunt you. Fair enough if your kids are not academic - if so guide them towards finding what they are good at - arts, crafts, sport, acting, modelling, singing, whatever.

To do this you need a good school......with enough resources and enough teachers.

Anyway - academics - believe you me places like India and China are right now giving their young kids everything they possibly need to survive in the new world so that they are the new leaders in the 21st century. They learn heaps at young ages and have regualr homework......

It's exactly why lots of businesses are relocating their jobs to these places (banks, call centres, insurance, manufacturing, etc).

Now, as for testing kids and how young they are that's another quandry.

Basically I believe that you can only tell if a kid has learned something if they can explain it back, replay it, redo it or such like on their own. This doesn't have to be in a 3 hour exam for a 6 year old to do his times tables.

I regularly play games with my 3 boys at bed time to see who can add up some numbers the quickest or who can spell some new words....they have fun with it and actually ask me for some sums.

If it's made fun and enjoyable kids will take it in - ram it down them and they'll switch off.

Look at me.....bottom of my maths class as an 11 year old and had to re-take a fractions test.........I hated it first time round but after my dada showed me fractions and made it fun adn easy I got 100% in my re-take............and now am an accountant.

OK.........flodd gates open for jokes now.

Anyway.............Oz schooling needs to make academics a serious subject and not leave it laid back behind other things yong kids learn.

PS......Kids with learning issues clearly are not what I am on about here...I am talking Joe Average.

Olibeneli

Oh yes..............you can tell that academics are important judging by the number of spelling mistakes I make.

...........that and better typing lessons.

JaneandJim

Can Joe Average spell potato?

JaneandJim

Rats, beat me to it!

Jane

Olibeneli

Clearly not.............no-one ever tested him on it so he never knew if it was right or wrong.

In the end he sometimes reverts to just saying chips, 'cos chips is chips.

Badge

I agree with you to an extent, and there's no need to test too early.

I didn't even learn my tables until I was about 11 - I mean the hard ones like 7 * 6, 8 * 7; but in secondary school I soon picked them up - when I need them.

I think the all rounder thing though is still important. Also, whats the point in having a Indian or Chinese with a degree in astro-physics if he gets a job in a call centre where you can' t work out his accent?

There are stacks of migrants applying to Australia, who appear to meet standards, yet they hardly make sense on the English side of things - judging by some of the posts on the migration board! Employers will always pick someone they can get on with; it's the age old "face fits" thing. Maybe 'globalisation' will fail as customers complain about lack of service.

Badge

PeteY

Firstly, what do you mean by academic? Do you mean reading, writing, arithmatic? Or do you mean calculus, literature and chemistry? Either way.....All the aussies I know would give any of the poms i know a run for thier money in any of these subjects.

My wife learnt more complex mathematics in her school in australia than i did at mine. She also did all the chemisty, geometry, languages that i did.

I honestly don't know where everyone on this forum is getting the idea that Australia is full of people who did'nt receive a grounding in basic fundemental subjects; but who "integrate well". All of the Australians i know did just as much calculus/fluid physics/noble chemistry at school as i did.

Olibeneli

Globalisation is here and spreading.

I work in Crawley which is a town about as English as you can get. Working with me here are about 25 people that have come over from India who all speak excellent english, are well educated, young and what their face looks like doesn't matter a jot...........if they can do the job better and cheaper than someone else then they are in.

This attitude of large companies will spread to smaller ones believe me.....

So for our kids to stay ahead when they get to 20 they gotta be smart 'cos no-one is going to hand things to them on a plate and all the jobs that exist will go to whoever does it best and cheapest.....simple economics.........and companies can take people on from anywhere.

tinaj

I am still waiting to hear why 'laid back Oz' is missing the point?

I have just spent 2 hours in a Staff Meeting talking about subject headings for our new and revised( for the 3rd time in 3 yrs) Maths policy. That sounds important you may think, but it will be re-written and then tucked away in a little cupboard so it is fresh and ready for the OFSTED inspection. That is about the only time anyone will look at it. Meanwhile the work my students have completed today is sitting unmarked in my room...


My colleague who trained in SA, said to me all it is over here now is policy, policy. I have to agree, let us teachers get on with the teaching and forget most of this paper-pushing rubbish!! I hope Oz is more laid back in this respect, surely it can't be any worse??!

And please, don't talk to me about understanding fractions:scared:

Olibeneli

I can't speak for policy setting and form filling for the Government and inspections and all that crap.

All I know is, academics are bloody important if you want to get on in life.

Fair enough some kids are not that academic - so we have to encourage them and find their strengths and weaknesses in the best way possible.

One of my kids struggles with writing - but he excels in other areas like sport so we sometimes get him to write a story about football which he enjoys....................

All I am saying (in a reply to a post somewhere else on here) is that academics are important and need to be set in context to what skills kids need to survive in the future.....someone on here said they thought teaching in these and the testing of them was not important in their Oz school as other things...

...no doubt that someone will now pipe up that their Oz school has their kids tested for 7 hours a day 5 days a week with nothing else............

ANA123

Surely a degree of balance would be preferable? Academic acheivement is important but is not so useful if you don't have the social skills to sell yourself at an interview or communicate with your colleagues?
I guess the balance varies from classroom to classroom let alone country to country.

mcmercer

jandjuk

so are you saying that at high school and university level, students in aus are not as academic as those in the UK?

If so, then I disagree. there has been various arguments posted here on why students at university level are comparable to those anywhere in the world.

If not, then what does it matter?

Sure, at the younger ages, the kid's skills in the three R's might not measure up with those of their UK counterparts - but I would argue that at a later age, things seem to even out and young adults in aus vs young adults in the UK would have very similar academic skills - therefore neither are at an advantage in the world....

vickymills

i could do all my tables uo to *12 at aged 6. I cant do them now, but I have an MBA so were they necessary?

In fact I was bottom of the class at school so they tested my IQ and then I had private lessons and by age 8 was top of the class all the time, by age 13 I switched off as school was boring and became very average.

I havent ever used anything I did in school.

To pass my MBA I used my brain and the determination and goal setting I was tought as an international gymnast ,and it wasn't that hard.

I intend to bring my kids up to have fun with studies and not to have perfections and A's enforced upon them.
To have morals and goals in life, and to help them acheive them.

PeteY

The thing is.....statistically Australian children have better standards of literacy and mathematical competance.....

downunderpom

Balance in all things.

Oli's 'academics', when taken to extremes because they're 'so important' end up with kids committing suicide, like the Japanese students who find that they haven't made the top 5% of their class, and the shame of it drives them to kill themselves.

Balance in all thing, Oli. Let the kids excel at what's important to THEM, not you. As long as they're happy, enjoying their lives and contributing to society, who gives a shit what their 'grades' are?