iamthecreaturefromuranus

Just like the thousands of passengers he's left dumped overseas?

Put it this way... I'm one regular flyer to the UK who will now NEVER fly QANTAS again as long as that poisonous little shit is running the company. How many other thousands has he put off QANTAS for life?

IvanM

No pay cuts due. The dispute is about outsourcing which will see job losses. The unions want a legally enforceable guarantee that there will be no outsourcing.

iamthecreaturefromuranus

I work FOR an outsourcer. I know EXACTLY what offshoring means.

OzJo

I have two elderly in laws here who were flying to HK and then back to UK tonight. They have no idea what's happening and aren't in the position that they can sit around an airport for days!!!

Wol

GarryP:

>>Let's face it, starting up a airline isn't that complicated. You lease some aircraft, hire some pilots, subcontract much of the support and put some focus on attractive hosties and a logo. All it needs is the investment capital and you're away. But its also a 'national pride' issue. Why would a country want Qantas setting up shop when they could have their own domestic business, and taxes?<<

If you weren't being tongue in cheek you are dismally short of knowledge about the industry.

Someone like Branson or O'Leary makes it look easy but believe you me there's an awful lot more in starting - and running - an airline than there is doing the same thing in say retailing.

Joyce is lancing the boil that always has and probably always will make Australia second rate. (Read up about the wharf strikes).

Having said that, Australian management often reflects the same attitudes as the hardline unions, and achieves the same results: poor customer service.

Whichever way this goes it's going to be messy and could lead to the extinction of Qantas

GarryP

" The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist."

Although hiring PR people to convince ordinary Joe wage shlubs that policies designed to make their lives worse were actually good - and getting them to parrot them back - has got to come a close second.

Forget snow to eskimos; using the work 'flexibility' for 'no job security' was a masterstroke.

GarryP

Err, as it happens I *DO* know quite a bit about operating airlines, the business models, the costs, etc. and although I was being a bit dismissive, the basics really are pretty simple and well known. Why do you think there are so many LCO's popping up? It *looks* quite simple and easy.

The only real problem is making it make money rather than lose it. That's the trick the trips up so many - its margins are razor thin and often negative, and if anything goes wrong, it gets expensive very fast.

Wol

Quite - I was trying to tease you out. But such "dismissive" comments can be taken literally by some, and make it look as if starting an airline can be done by an executive wife in the evenings as a change from starting a boutique

IvanM

The margins are tight and all of Qantas competitors operate with a much lower cost base. Something has to give and let's hope we do not have another Ansett.

IvanM

Off shoring baggage handling would be interesting.

GarryP

But you can't use cost cutting to compete - it doesn't work.

Now, this is a simplification, but assume that there are people starting up LCOs on the basis of that canned business model. They have to have millions of startup capital, but have optimism and think they can undercut the big boys - and do so. As a result they take customers and drive down prices for those competing on price. A problem comes along, like the GFC or even just an aircraft crash, and they suddenly realise they are undercapitalised for the high costs that rapidly arise - they go bankrupt. Then another one starts up in their place, with the same optimism, the same business model, and the same problems.

From the perspective of the big, long lasting, airline they are continually undercut by airlines that operate on negative margin - because if you take all the costs into account, over the medium to long term, they aren't charging enough.

It's a mugs game to focus on the cheapest possible flights. Sure you have to get your prices down, but if you can't play on a different business model than just undercutting the competition, you are already dead - you just don't realise it yet.

IvanM

There is a difference between cutting corners and cutting costs. Cutting costs and improving productivity is business basics. If you do not your competitors will. The end game is a takeover or bankruptcy. Old school socialism would argue for protective measures such as nationalization. As it is Qantas must be 51% Australian owned.

Kalenge

I've worked for a number of companies across the globe that have gone through periods of outsourcing and offshoring. It's a natural step in the business world to deliver profit and beat competitors.

The days of a guaranteed job for life are long gone - why should some industries have the expectation through their unions that they should be treated differently to everyone else?

The unions all played their role in the demise of the mining and car manufacturing industries in the UK. Sod 'em and their myopic view!

iamthecreaturefromuranus

...and every step along that route sees more and more people in Western economies classed as 'economically inactive'. No work and no chance of ever finding any.

No doubt great for the shareholders and that 1% of people who own most of the wealth... utterly shit for the rest of us.

sonlymewalter

unsavoury but a way of the world if you want to comepete I'm afraid.