Qantas...hmmmm....
#136
Re: Qantas...hmmmm....
Christ almighty. Thatchers children speak.
"Executive pay rose by an average of more than $940,000 or 17.2% over the past year, while the annual wage of a full-time worker rose by just $3200, or 5.2%"
"Profits soared by 27.5% in the last 12 months to a record share of the national economy, while wages’ share is the lowest since 1964"
http://www.actu.org.au/Media/Mediare...geworkers.aspx
"Executive pay rose by an average of more than $940,000 or 17.2% over the past year, while the annual wage of a full-time worker rose by just $3200, or 5.2%"
"Profits soared by 27.5% in the last 12 months to a record share of the national economy, while wages’ share is the lowest since 1964"
http://www.actu.org.au/Media/Mediare...geworkers.aspx
perhaps some correlation between a 27.5% profit increase and a CEO wage boon? CEO's should be paid for failing? that'd be a great incentive scheme. Mind you ,given the way some unions seem to think the world works I can see why some that view would be appropriate.
how is the "ordinary" worker being shafted - they have a job, they get paid. If they dont like it they go find a better paid job. Thats called market forces. We live in a free market economy (except for bananas) if people dont like the money they earn from the job they have then bugger off and get trained and earn more. Its a choice we all have.
#137
Re: Qantas...hmmmm....
So, people have been slating the CEO. What would you do then differently, assuming that :
1. You already pay the highest wages in the industry by a long chalk.
2. Your international business already haemorrhages money annually because of the huge costs of being based in Australia & will probably go out of business anyway within 3 years unless radical reform takes place.
3. Unions are now demanding not only 3-5% pay increases but demanding that you legally bind yourself to ensuring that you cannot outsource or expand overseas.
4. You have strikes happening weekly and your brand is already damaged with no possible end in sight.
5. The serving PM whose very existence depends on the goodwill of her union backers wrote the legislation you have to work within.
Really. I admire the bloke for having some balls in an impossible situation to bring it all to head.
Still think Qantas internationally will die. It's just not viable. It just costs too much for the product in a globalised marketplace.
1. You already pay the highest wages in the industry by a long chalk.
2. Your international business already haemorrhages money annually because of the huge costs of being based in Australia & will probably go out of business anyway within 3 years unless radical reform takes place.
3. Unions are now demanding not only 3-5% pay increases but demanding that you legally bind yourself to ensuring that you cannot outsource or expand overseas.
4. You have strikes happening weekly and your brand is already damaged with no possible end in sight.
5. The serving PM whose very existence depends on the goodwill of her union backers wrote the legislation you have to work within.
Really. I admire the bloke for having some balls in an impossible situation to bring it all to head.
Still think Qantas internationally will die. It's just not viable. It just costs too much for the product in a globalised marketplace.
#138
Re: Qantas...hmmmm....
Firstly I would have held off with any talk about a wage rise for the ceo until the time was right. Which clown thought that was PR and for a CEO to even go there makes him an even bigger clown. Timing was shite and that's an understatement
The Union requests are out of order and not in line with the real world. No one anywhere gets a job for life these days. They need bringing back into line and if they can't come to the table sensibly, the law should intervene. The arbitration process should lend itself to ensure deals are beneficial to the customer, the worker and the company and slowly force out union requirments. Unions are outdated and in Austoo powerful but they've been a neccesary evil as Aussie companies (generally) are not accountable for the way they behave. Culturally the way business operates here is shoddy and it's *deeper* than a few union spats here and there. We need to smarten up management practice and encourage workers councils who are more even handed however union and corporate *behaviour* needs to be protected by a strong legal process forcing all parties to compromise.
The serving PM should take a closer look at her own lousy policies that clearly exaserbate poor union and corporate behaviour. A reconcilliation process needs to ensure the final decision is made within good time so as to not get out of hand and to stop both parties being unreasonable. This is especially important when it involves the closure of a major airline affecting so many people. Any business/ Union issue that has major ramifications needs to have a third party interventioin to avoid this kind of moronic behaviour, someone who represents all parties concerned i.e. cusomter, company & workers in equal meaure.
At the end of the day this was a poorly managed dispute and it became a political football and all it did was leave egg on everyone's faces. It's damaged customer goodwill and global credibility and with everyone screaming "it's not my fault gov" no one learns a darn thing
The Union requests are out of order and not in line with the real world. No one anywhere gets a job for life these days. They need bringing back into line and if they can't come to the table sensibly, the law should intervene. The arbitration process should lend itself to ensure deals are beneficial to the customer, the worker and the company and slowly force out union requirments. Unions are outdated and in Austoo powerful but they've been a neccesary evil as Aussie companies (generally) are not accountable for the way they behave. Culturally the way business operates here is shoddy and it's *deeper* than a few union spats here and there. We need to smarten up management practice and encourage workers councils who are more even handed however union and corporate *behaviour* needs to be protected by a strong legal process forcing all parties to compromise.
The serving PM should take a closer look at her own lousy policies that clearly exaserbate poor union and corporate behaviour. A reconcilliation process needs to ensure the final decision is made within good time so as to not get out of hand and to stop both parties being unreasonable. This is especially important when it involves the closure of a major airline affecting so many people. Any business/ Union issue that has major ramifications needs to have a third party interventioin to avoid this kind of moronic behaviour, someone who represents all parties concerned i.e. cusomter, company & workers in equal meaure.
At the end of the day this was a poorly managed dispute and it became a political football and all it did was leave egg on everyone's faces. It's damaged customer goodwill and global credibility and with everyone screaming "it's not my fault gov" no one learns a darn thing
#139
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,555
Re: Qantas...hmmmm....
I did not mention his pay as a multiple of the worker. It was his pay rise in the opposite direction of the share price and earnings. Do as I say not as I do.
this always makes me laugh - the ceo salary as a multiple of the worker.
frankly- if my ceo earned anything in relation to what I earn - I'd leave. I want the guy at the top to be paid on par with his peers, to not have to worry about his gas bill, and to be 100% focused 100% of his time on the job at hand in steering the company.
These guys work an impossible schedule and have every part of their life scrutinised. Why shouldnt they earn a huge buck. They are exceptional people by dint of the fact there are far fewer of them than there are any other type of job/worker.
frankly- if my ceo earned anything in relation to what I earn - I'd leave. I want the guy at the top to be paid on par with his peers, to not have to worry about his gas bill, and to be 100% focused 100% of his time on the job at hand in steering the company.
These guys work an impossible schedule and have every part of their life scrutinised. Why shouldnt they earn a huge buck. They are exceptional people by dint of the fact there are far fewer of them than there are any other type of job/worker.
#140
Re: Qantas...hmmmm....
Eastern execs have a far lower multiple of their industry's average earnings.
#141
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Epping NSW
Posts: 606
Re: Qantas is grounding all flights.
Not really. Apparently he has taken pay cuts over the last two years and is earning less than he was at JetStar and less than the Virgin CEO gets and less per hour than A380 pilots.
Tell, or at least be informed about, the full facts.
Tell, or at least be informed about, the full facts.
#142
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Epping NSW
Posts: 606
Re: Qantas...hmmmm....
So, people have been slating the CEO. What would you do then differently, assuming that :
1. You already pay the highest wages in the industry by a long chalk.
2. Your international business already haemorrhages money annually because of the huge costs of being based in Australia & will probably go out of business anyway within 3 years unless radical reform takes place.
3. Unions are now demanding not only 3-5% pay increases but demanding that you legally bind yourself to ensuring that you cannot outsource or expand overseas.
4. You have strikes happening weekly and your brand is already damaged with no possible end in sight.
5. The serving PM whose very existence depends on the goodwill of her union backers wrote the legislation you have to work within.
Really. I admire the bloke for having some balls in an impossible situation to bring it all to head.
Still think Qantas internationally will die. It's just not viable. It just costs too much for the product in a globalised marketplace.
1. You already pay the highest wages in the industry by a long chalk.
2. Your international business already haemorrhages money annually because of the huge costs of being based in Australia & will probably go out of business anyway within 3 years unless radical reform takes place.
3. Unions are now demanding not only 3-5% pay increases but demanding that you legally bind yourself to ensuring that you cannot outsource or expand overseas.
4. You have strikes happening weekly and your brand is already damaged with no possible end in sight.
5. The serving PM whose very existence depends on the goodwill of her union backers wrote the legislation you have to work within.
Really. I admire the bloke for having some balls in an impossible situation to bring it all to head.
Still think Qantas internationally will die. It's just not viable. It just costs too much for the product in a globalised marketplace.
Meanwhile the unions can announce a stoppage causing flight cancellations, then call off the stoppage and keep getting paid. Doesn't the playing field need a bit of levelling or can we live without the international flying kangaroo?
#143
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Hills District
Posts: 1,399
Re: Qantas is grounding all flights.
And if certain conditions are not met he gets no extra money.
#144
Account Closed
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,188
Re: Qantas...hmmmm....
A man walks into an office and tells his staff...
"You lot are a bunch of lazy, overpaid *****. I'm going to sack thousands of you and those I keep on are going to have to put up with shitty pay and even ****ing worse conditions.... and if you don't like it, you know what you can do... now **** off back to work before I get a load of Indians in to do your job"
They people in the office are somewhat stunned by this and think that if they stick together they might be able to fight this and keep their jobs and current conditions.....
The people outside the office, with their ears pressed against the glass think to themselves.... "this man is a ****ing genius.. these people ARE all lazy *****... they're nothing like me at all and really do deserve to be treated like shit. I hope he sacks the ****ing lot of them and gives all the work to some useless ****ing Indian... at least it will mean I save $20 on my next flight"
If you lot, really believe the shit you're posting and really think that its all the fault of the QANTAS staff, then I truly am posting on the wrong site.
"You lot are a bunch of lazy, overpaid *****. I'm going to sack thousands of you and those I keep on are going to have to put up with shitty pay and even ****ing worse conditions.... and if you don't like it, you know what you can do... now **** off back to work before I get a load of Indians in to do your job"
They people in the office are somewhat stunned by this and think that if they stick together they might be able to fight this and keep their jobs and current conditions.....
The people outside the office, with their ears pressed against the glass think to themselves.... "this man is a ****ing genius.. these people ARE all lazy *****... they're nothing like me at all and really do deserve to be treated like shit. I hope he sacks the ****ing lot of them and gives all the work to some useless ****ing Indian... at least it will mean I save $20 on my next flight"
If you lot, really believe the shit you're posting and really think that its all the fault of the QANTAS staff, then I truly am posting on the wrong site.
#145
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,555
Re: Qantas is grounding all flights.
He wants Qantas to be the Spirit of Asia where the CEO of SIA is on half the pay. If I am paid a bonus a large part is on the company's financial performance. Qantas share price has gone in the opposite direction of the boards pay and there is no dividend to pay.
If you get a 70% rise do not be surprised the workforce will want one.
I am all for incentivized pay but not reward for failure.
If you get a 70% rise do not be surprised the workforce will want one.
I am all for incentivized pay but not reward for failure.
#146
Re: Qantas...hmmmm....
A man walks into an office and tells his staff...
"You lot are a bunch of lazy, overpaid *****. I'm going to sack thousands of you and those I keep on are going to have to put up with shitty pay and even ****ing worse conditions.... and if you don't like it, you know what you can do... now **** off back to work before I get a load of Indians in to do your job"
They people in the office are somewhat stunned by this and think that if they stick together they might be able to fight this and keep their jobs and current conditions.....
The people outside the office, with their ears pressed against the glass think to themselves.... "this man is a ****ing genius.. these people ARE all lazy *****... they're nothing like me at all and really do deserve to be treated like shit. I hope he sacks the ****ing lot of them and gives all the work to some useless ****ing Indian... at least it will mean I save $20 on my next flight"
If you lot, really believe the shit you're posting and really think that its all the fault of the QANTAS staff, then I truly am posting on the wrong site.
"You lot are a bunch of lazy, overpaid *****. I'm going to sack thousands of you and those I keep on are going to have to put up with shitty pay and even ****ing worse conditions.... and if you don't like it, you know what you can do... now **** off back to work before I get a load of Indians in to do your job"
They people in the office are somewhat stunned by this and think that if they stick together they might be able to fight this and keep their jobs and current conditions.....
The people outside the office, with their ears pressed against the glass think to themselves.... "this man is a ****ing genius.. these people ARE all lazy *****... they're nothing like me at all and really do deserve to be treated like shit. I hope he sacks the ****ing lot of them and gives all the work to some useless ****ing Indian... at least it will mean I save $20 on my next flight"
If you lot, really believe the shit you're posting and really think that its all the fault of the QANTAS staff, then I truly am posting on the wrong site.
The company are not saying that the staff are a bunch of lazy, workshy good-for-nothings, they are simply saying that there is an opportunity to reduce costs and increase competitive edge.
It will not mean a pay cut or worsening conditions for those whose roles are not outsourced. I still have not seen anything to suggest that it is more than a thousand job losses and in a company this size it will be easy to shed many of these jobs through natural turnover.
I don't think that the guy is a genius, know little about him, but he was decisive and did get this nipped in the bud.
Last edited by Bermudashorts; Nov 1st 2011 at 4:16 am.
#147
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,555
Re: Qantas...hmmmm....
There are better run airlines that can take Qantas place. Can Austalians divorce their patriotic emotions from what will be RedQ, QAsia or whatever form it will take?
And in dollar terms airline fares have barely increased for decades while increasing amounts of the ticket price are consumed by greedy taxes and charges. Check them out when next getting a quote for travel.
Meanwhile the unions can announce a stoppage causing flight cancellations, then call off the stoppage and keep getting paid. Doesn't the playing field need a bit of levelling or can we live without the international flying kangaroo?
Meanwhile the unions can announce a stoppage causing flight cancellations, then call off the stoppage and keep getting paid. Doesn't the playing field need a bit of levelling or can we live without the international flying kangaroo?
#148
Re: Qantas...hmmmm....
I've never understood the concept of 'national' airlines, especially now that most of them are privately owned. Why is BA more representative of the UK than say Virgin Atlantic? Why should Qantas be a symbol of Australia and not Virgin Australia? Because it's got a Kangaroo on it's tail? Air France, Alitalia, Air New Zealand etc have all been bailed out by their respective governments. They are like some protected species.
Last edited by Amazulu; Nov 1st 2011 at 6:07 am.
#149
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,555
Re: Qantas...hmmmm....
Protected but dying. Hence British Airways became BA who are owned by Iag who own Iberia. The bilateral treaties between countries that regulate who can fly where have been to the detriment of passengers.
US airlines are also protected in a similar manner to Qantas and they are awful.
US airlines are also protected in a similar manner to Qantas and they are awful.
I've never understood the concept of 'national' airlines, especially now that most of them are privately owned. Why is BA more representative of the UK than say Virgin Atlantic? Why should Qantas asymbol of Australia and not Virgin Australia? Because it's got a Kangaroo on it's tail? Air France, Alitalia, Air New Zealand etc have all been bailed out by their respective governments. They are like some protected species.
#150
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,555
Re: Qantas...hmmmm....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/business-15532831
This will be the next nail in the Qantas coffin. Let's scoot to London.
This will be the next nail in the Qantas coffin. Let's scoot to London.