Qantas...hmmmm....
Oct 30th 2011, 11:32 pm
#121
ah-beng
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: ^.^
Posts: 3,113
Re: Qantas...hmmmm....
The "Strike" was disruption to the company over a prolonged period - and the union were threatening it to continue for 12 months + , 12 months of instability is a hell of a lot worse than 12 hrs of shock+awe.
It wasnt the pilots - it was the ground crew causing most of this .
Oct 31st 2011, 2:27 am
#122
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Qantas...hmmmm....
Wife was looking forward to spreading out on 4 seats on her BA flight from Heathrow to Sydney today. Plane was looking pretty empty. Now they are running 2 hours late and full to the rafters. I guess that's a minor complaint compared to the inconvienice for others.
Gillard could have prevented all this ...... any other PM with a backbone would have.
Gillard could have prevented all this ...... any other PM with a backbone would have.
Oct 31st 2011, 8:22 am
#123
no stressin no fussin....
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Fantasy Island....
Posts: 12,616
Re: Qantas...hmmmm....
Unbeleiveable. The union are blaming the CEO and the CEO is blaming the unions..........and Gillard says "aint I clevva for sorting that out"
They've all been arseholes. Not one of them *get it*- no one gives a shit how long it lasted, the reality is it happened and should never have gone that far. The escalation process is abysmal, another example of shite policies in place and reactive management
I love Aus but when it comes to brains in business, it's emotionally devoid
It's upset LOTS of customers ALL OVER THE WORLD....no one gives a shit about one upmanship between the unions, the CEO and Gillard. It's all about the customer. As for competative salaries, they need to start with reducing the CEO's salary and maybe then can they afford to compete. He's just shown he's not worth it.
Dickead union, dickead CEO and dickead Fairwork policies.
They've all been arseholes. Not one of them *get it*- no one gives a shit how long it lasted, the reality is it happened and should never have gone that far. The escalation process is abysmal, another example of shite policies in place and reactive management
I love Aus but when it comes to brains in business, it's emotionally devoid
It's upset LOTS of customers ALL OVER THE WORLD....no one gives a shit about one upmanship between the unions, the CEO and Gillard. It's all about the customer. As for competative salaries, they need to start with reducing the CEO's salary and maybe then can they afford to compete. He's just shown he's not worth it.
Dickead union, dickead CEO and dickead Fairwork policies.
Oct 31st 2011, 9:43 am
#124
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Asia Pacific
Posts: 4,922
Re: Qantas...hmmmm....
So, people have been slating the CEO. What would you do then differently, assuming that :
1. You already pay the highest wages in the industry by a long chalk.
2. Your international business already haemorrhages money annually because of the huge costs of being based in Australia & will probably go out of business anyway within 3 years unless radical reform takes place.
3. Unions are now demanding not only 3-5% pay increases but demanding that you legally bind yourself to ensuring that you cannot outsource or expand overseas.
4. You have strikes happening weekly and your brand is already damaged with no possible end in sight.
5. The serving PM whose very existence depends on the goodwill of her union backers wrote the legislation you have to work within.
Really. I admire the bloke for having some balls in an impossible situation to bring it all to head.
Still think Qantas internationally will die. It's just not viable. It just costs too much for the product in a globalised marketplace.
1. You already pay the highest wages in the industry by a long chalk.
2. Your international business already haemorrhages money annually because of the huge costs of being based in Australia & will probably go out of business anyway within 3 years unless radical reform takes place.
3. Unions are now demanding not only 3-5% pay increases but demanding that you legally bind yourself to ensuring that you cannot outsource or expand overseas.
4. You have strikes happening weekly and your brand is already damaged with no possible end in sight.
5. The serving PM whose very existence depends on the goodwill of her union backers wrote the legislation you have to work within.
Really. I admire the bloke for having some balls in an impossible situation to bring it all to head.
Still think Qantas internationally will die. It's just not viable. It just costs too much for the product in a globalised marketplace.
Oct 31st 2011, 9:49 am
#125
FREE TIBET
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,840
Re: Qantas...hmmmm....
So, people have been slating the CEO. What would you do then differently, assuming that :
1. You already pay the highest wages in the industry by a long chalk.
2. Your international business already haemorrhages money annually because of the huge costs of being based in Australia & will probably go out of business anyway within 3 years unless radical reform takes place.
3. Unions are now demanding not only 3-5% pay increases but demanding that you legally bind yourself to ensuring that you cannot outsource or expand overseas.
4. You have strikes happening weekly and your brand is already damaged with no possible end in sight.
5. The serving PM whose very existence depends on the goodwill of her union backers wrote the legislation you have to work within.
Really. I admire the bloke for having some balls in an impossible situation to bring it all to head.
Still think Qantas internationally will die. It's just not viable. It just costs too much for the product in a globalised marketplace.
1. You already pay the highest wages in the industry by a long chalk.
2. Your international business already haemorrhages money annually because of the huge costs of being based in Australia & will probably go out of business anyway within 3 years unless radical reform takes place.
3. Unions are now demanding not only 3-5% pay increases but demanding that you legally bind yourself to ensuring that you cannot outsource or expand overseas.
4. You have strikes happening weekly and your brand is already damaged with no possible end in sight.
5. The serving PM whose very existence depends on the goodwill of her union backers wrote the legislation you have to work within.
Really. I admire the bloke for having some balls in an impossible situation to bring it all to head.
Still think Qantas internationally will die. It's just not viable. It just costs too much for the product in a globalised marketplace.
Oct 31st 2011, 9:50 am
#126
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,555
Re: Qantas...hmmmm....
His own pay rise was not leading by example. Giving as much notice as required by unions would also be a start. The biggest complaint by customers is the lack of notice.
No side comes out smelling of roses and customers suffered unnecessary inconvenience.
At least the action is over.
No side comes out smelling of roses and customers suffered unnecessary inconvenience.
At least the action is over.
So, people have been slating the CEO. What would you do then differently, assuming that :
1. You already pay the highest wages in the industry by a long chalk.
2. Your international business already haemorrhages money annually because of the huge costs of being based in Australia & will probably go out of business anyway within 3 years unless radical reform takes place.
3. Unions are now demanding not only 3-5% pay increases but demanding that you legally bind yourself to ensuring that you cannot outsource or expand overseas.
4. You have strikes happening weekly and your brand is already damaged with no possible end in sight.
5. The serving PM whose very existence depends on the goodwill of her union backers wrote the legislation you have to work within.
Really. I admire the bloke for having some balls in an impossible situation to bring it all to head.
Still think Qantas internationally will die. It's just not viable. It just costs too much for the product in a globalised marketplace.
1. You already pay the highest wages in the industry by a long chalk.
2. Your international business already haemorrhages money annually because of the huge costs of being based in Australia & will probably go out of business anyway within 3 years unless radical reform takes place.
3. Unions are now demanding not only 3-5% pay increases but demanding that you legally bind yourself to ensuring that you cannot outsource or expand overseas.
4. You have strikes happening weekly and your brand is already damaged with no possible end in sight.
5. The serving PM whose very existence depends on the goodwill of her union backers wrote the legislation you have to work within.
Really. I admire the bloke for having some balls in an impossible situation to bring it all to head.
Still think Qantas internationally will die. It's just not viable. It just costs too much for the product in a globalised marketplace.
Oct 31st 2011, 9:58 am
#127
ah-beng
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: ^.^
Posts: 3,113
Re: Qantas...hmmmm....
frankly- if my ceo earned anything in relation to what I earn - I'd leave. I want the guy at the top to be paid on par with his peers, to not have to worry about his gas bill, and to be 100% focused 100% of his time on the job at hand in steering the company.
These guys work an impossible schedule and have every part of their life scrutinised. Why shouldnt they earn a huge buck. They are exceptional people by dint of the fact there are far fewer of them than there are any other type of job/worker.
Oct 31st 2011, 10:03 am
#128
Daffyd Duck
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Paradise
Posts: 5,636
Re: Qantas...hmmmm....
Qantas share price is UP by almost 5% today. hmmm...
Oct 31st 2011, 10:08 am
#129
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Was Preston, Now Sydney :)
Posts: 399
Re: Qantas...hmmmm....
So, people have been slating the CEO. What would you do then differently, assuming that :
1. You already pay the highest wages in the industry by a long chalk.
2. Your international business already haemorrhages money annually because of the huge costs of being based in Australia & will probably go out of business anyway within 3 years unless radical reform takes place.
3. Unions are now demanding not only 3-5% pay increases but demanding that you legally bind yourself to ensuring that you cannot outsource or expand overseas.
4. You have strikes happening weekly and your brand is already damaged with no possible end in sight.
5. The serving PM whose very existence depends on the goodwill of her union backers wrote the legislation you have to work within.
Really. I admire the bloke for having some balls in an impossible situation to bring it all to head.
Still think Qantas internationally will die. It's just not viable. It just costs too much for the product in a globalised marketplace.
1. You already pay the highest wages in the industry by a long chalk.
2. Your international business already haemorrhages money annually because of the huge costs of being based in Australia & will probably go out of business anyway within 3 years unless radical reform takes place.
3. Unions are now demanding not only 3-5% pay increases but demanding that you legally bind yourself to ensuring that you cannot outsource or expand overseas.
4. You have strikes happening weekly and your brand is already damaged with no possible end in sight.
5. The serving PM whose very existence depends on the goodwill of her union backers wrote the legislation you have to work within.
Really. I admire the bloke for having some balls in an impossible situation to bring it all to head.
Still think Qantas internationally will die. It's just not viable. It just costs too much for the product in a globalised marketplace.
Agreement has been reached with 12 out of 15 unions, so surely the terms and conditions cant be that bad - else more of the 15 unions would have been striking.
Oct 31st 2011, 10:08 am
#130
no stressin no fussin....
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Fantasy Island....
Posts: 12,616
Re: Qantas...hmmmm....
So, people have been slating the CEO. What would you do then differently, assuming that :
1. You already pay the highest wages in the industry by a long chalk.
2. Your international business already haemorrhages money annually because of the huge costs of being based in Australia & will probably go out of business anyway within 3 years unless radical reform takes place.
3. Unions are now demanding not only 3-5% pay increases but demanding that you legally bind yourself to ensuring that you cannot outsource or expand overseas.
4. You have strikes happening weekly and your brand is already damaged with no possible end in sight.
5. The serving PM whose very existence depends on the goodwill of her union backers wrote the legislation you have to work within.
Really. I admire the bloke for having some balls in an impossible situation to bring it all to head.
Still think Qantas internationally will die. It's just not viable. It just costs too much for the product in a globalised marketplace.
1. You already pay the highest wages in the industry by a long chalk.
2. Your international business already haemorrhages money annually because of the huge costs of being based in Australia & will probably go out of business anyway within 3 years unless radical reform takes place.
3. Unions are now demanding not only 3-5% pay increases but demanding that you legally bind yourself to ensuring that you cannot outsource or expand overseas.
4. You have strikes happening weekly and your brand is already damaged with no possible end in sight.
5. The serving PM whose very existence depends on the goodwill of her union backers wrote the legislation you have to work within.
Really. I admire the bloke for having some balls in an impossible situation to bring it all to head.
Still think Qantas internationally will die. It's just not viable. It just costs too much for the product in a globalised marketplace.
The Union requests are out of order and not in line with the real world. No one anywhere gets a job for life these days. They need bringing back into line and if they can't come to the table sensibly, the law should intervene. The arbitration process should lend itself to ensure deals are beneficial to the customer, the worker and the company and slowly force out union requirments. Unions are outdated and in Austoo powerful but they've been a neccesary evil as Aussie companies (generally) are not accountable for the way they behave. Culturally the way business operates here is shoddy and it's *deeper* than a few union spats here and there. We need to smarten up management practice and encourage workers councils who are more even handed however union and corporate *behaviour* needs to be protected by a strong legal process forcing all parties to compromise.
The serving PM should take a closer look at her own lousy policies that clearly exaserbate poor union and corporate behaviour. A reconcilliation process needs to ensure the final decision is made within good time so as to not get out of hand and to stop both parties being unreasonable. This is especially important when it involves the closure of a major airline affecting so many people. Any business/ Union issue that has major ramifications needs to have a third party interventioin to avoid this kind of moronic behaviour, someone who represents all parties concerned i.e. cusomter, company & workers in equal meaure.
At the end of the day this was a poorly managed dispute and it became a political football and all it did was leave egg on everyone's faces. It's damaged customer goodwill and global credibility and with everyone screaming "it's not my fault gov" no one learns a darn thing
Oct 31st 2011, 10:11 am
#131
no stressin no fussin....
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Fantasy Island....
Posts: 12,616
Re: Qantas...hmmmm....
this always makes me laugh - the ceo salary as a multiple of the worker.
frankly- if my ceo earned anything in relation to what I earn - I'd leave. I want the guy at the top to be paid on par with his peers, to not have to worry about his gas bill, and to be 100% focused 100% of his time on the job at hand in steering the company.
These guys work an impossible schedule and have every part of their life scrutinised. Why shouldnt they earn a huge buck. They are exceptional people by dint of the fact there are far fewer of them than there are any other type of job/worker.
frankly- if my ceo earned anything in relation to what I earn - I'd leave. I want the guy at the top to be paid on par with his peers, to not have to worry about his gas bill, and to be 100% focused 100% of his time on the job at hand in steering the company.
These guys work an impossible schedule and have every part of their life scrutinised. Why shouldnt they earn a huge buck. They are exceptional people by dint of the fact there are far fewer of them than there are any other type of job/worker.
CEO's should be paid a CEO salary. But like anything there's a time and a place for negotiations and during this major headace, this aint it. It should have been deferred
Oct 31st 2011, 10:30 am
#132
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Qantas...hmmmm....
O
Well said, and if the staff lose their jobs, then find another elsewhere like the rest of us in the private sector.
So, people have been slating the CEO. What would you do then differently, assuming that :
1. You already pay the highest wages in the industry by a long chalk.
2. Your international business already haemorrhages money annually because of the huge costs of being based in Australia & will probably go out of business anyway within 3 years unless radical reform takes place.
3. Unions are now demanding not only 3-5% pay increases but demanding that you legally bind yourself to ensuring that you cannot outsource or expand overseas.
4. You have strikes happening weekly and your brand is already damaged with no possible end in sight.
5. The serving PM whose very existence depends on the goodwill of her union backers wrote the legislation you have to work within.
Really. I admire the bloke for having some balls in an impossible situation to bring it all to head.
Still think Qantas internationally will die. It's just not viable. It just costs too much for the product in a globalised marketplace.
1. You already pay the highest wages in the industry by a long chalk.
2. Your international business already haemorrhages money annually because of the huge costs of being based in Australia & will probably go out of business anyway within 3 years unless radical reform takes place.
3. Unions are now demanding not only 3-5% pay increases but demanding that you legally bind yourself to ensuring that you cannot outsource or expand overseas.
4. You have strikes happening weekly and your brand is already damaged with no possible end in sight.
5. The serving PM whose very existence depends on the goodwill of her union backers wrote the legislation you have to work within.
Really. I admire the bloke for having some balls in an impossible situation to bring it all to head.
Still think Qantas internationally will die. It's just not viable. It just costs too much for the product in a globalised marketplace.
Oct 31st 2011, 11:48 am
#133
Account Closed
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,188
Re: Qantas...hmmmm....
Christ almighty. Thatchers children speak.
"Executive pay rose by an average of more than $940,000 or 17.2% over the past year, while the annual wage of a full-time worker rose by just $3200, or 5.2%"
"Profits soared by 27.5% in the last 12 months to a record share of the national economy, while wages’ share is the lowest since 1964"
http://www.actu.org.au/Media/Mediare...geworkers.aspx
No doubt you all think "they're worth it" and that the 'ordinary worker' deserves to be ****ing shafted.
"Executive pay rose by an average of more than $940,000 or 17.2% over the past year, while the annual wage of a full-time worker rose by just $3200, or 5.2%"
"Profits soared by 27.5% in the last 12 months to a record share of the national economy, while wages’ share is the lowest since 1964"
http://www.actu.org.au/Media/Mediare...geworkers.aspx
No doubt you all think "they're worth it" and that the 'ordinary worker' deserves to be ****ing shafted.
Oct 31st 2011, 11:55 am
#134
no stressin no fussin....
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Fantasy Island....
Posts: 12,616
Re: Qantas...hmmmm....
Christ almighty. Thatchers children speak.
"Executive pay rose by an average of more than $940,000 or 17.2% over the past year, while the annual wage of a full-time worker rose by just $3200, or 5.2%"
"Profits soared by 27.5% in the last 12 months to a record share of the national economy, while wages’ share is the lowest since 1964"
http://www.actu.org.au/Media/Mediare...geworkers.aspx
No doubt you all think "they're worth it" and that the 'ordinary worker' deserves to be ****ing shafted.
"Executive pay rose by an average of more than $940,000 or 17.2% over the past year, while the annual wage of a full-time worker rose by just $3200, or 5.2%"
"Profits soared by 27.5% in the last 12 months to a record share of the national economy, while wages’ share is the lowest since 1964"
http://www.actu.org.au/Media/Mediare...geworkers.aspx
No doubt you all think "they're worth it" and that the 'ordinary worker' deserves to be ****ing shafted.
People are also saying the timing to negotiate and award his salary was poor timing.
That's got nothing to do with Thatcher it's got everything to do with astute business practice, practiced all over the world.
Oct 31st 2011, 12:10 pm
#135
_
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Perth (ex Oxford)
Posts: 411
Re: Qantas...hmmmm....
Firstly I would have held off with any talk about a wage rise for the ceo until the time was right. Which clown thought that was PR and for a CEO to even go there makes him an even bigger clown. Timing was shite and that's an understatement
The Union requests are out of order and not in line with the real world. No one anywhere gets a job for life these days. They need bringing back into line and if they can't come to the table sensibly, the law should intervene. The arbitration process should lend itself to ensure deals are beneficial to the customer, the worker and the company and slowly force out union requirments. Unions are outdated and in Austoo powerful but they've been a neccesary evil as Aussie companies (generally) are not accountable for the way they behave. Culturally the way business operates here is shoddy and it's *deeper* than a few union spats here and there. We need to smarten up management practice and encourage workers councils who are more even handed however union and corporate *behaviour* needs to be protected by a strong legal process forcing all parties to compromise.
The serving PM should take a closer look at her own lousy policies that clearly exaserbate poor union and corporate behaviour. A reconcilliation process needs to ensure the final decision is made within good time so as to not get out of hand and to stop both parties being unreasonable. This is especially important when it involves the closure of a major airline affecting so many people. Any business/ Union issue that has major ramifications needs to have a third party interventioin to avoid this kind of moronic behaviour, someone who represents all parties concerned i.e. cusomter, company & workers in equal meaure.
At the end of the day this was a poorly managed dispute and it became a political football and all it did was leave egg on everyone's faces. It's damaged customer goodwill and global credibility and with everyone screaming "it's not my fault gov" no one learns a darn thing
The Union requests are out of order and not in line with the real world. No one anywhere gets a job for life these days. They need bringing back into line and if they can't come to the table sensibly, the law should intervene. The arbitration process should lend itself to ensure deals are beneficial to the customer, the worker and the company and slowly force out union requirments. Unions are outdated and in Austoo powerful but they've been a neccesary evil as Aussie companies (generally) are not accountable for the way they behave. Culturally the way business operates here is shoddy and it's *deeper* than a few union spats here and there. We need to smarten up management practice and encourage workers councils who are more even handed however union and corporate *behaviour* needs to be protected by a strong legal process forcing all parties to compromise.
The serving PM should take a closer look at her own lousy policies that clearly exaserbate poor union and corporate behaviour. A reconcilliation process needs to ensure the final decision is made within good time so as to not get out of hand and to stop both parties being unreasonable. This is especially important when it involves the closure of a major airline affecting so many people. Any business/ Union issue that has major ramifications needs to have a third party interventioin to avoid this kind of moronic behaviour, someone who represents all parties concerned i.e. cusomter, company & workers in equal meaure.
At the end of the day this was a poorly managed dispute and it became a political football and all it did was leave egg on everyone's faces. It's damaged customer goodwill and global credibility and with everyone screaming "it's not my fault gov" no one learns a darn thing