Puzzler?????
Jul 20th 2005, 7:13 am
#1
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Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Somerly,Perth
Posts: 545
Puzzler?????
3 men have a meal in a resturant, the bill comes to £30.
They each pay £10.
The waiter goes to the till and realises they have been over charged, the meal was only £25.
So the waiter takes out £5, puts £2 in his pocket and gives back the men a pound each.
With me so far?
So the men each paid £9, thats £27 in total.
The waiter had £2.
Where's the other pound?
They each pay £10.
The waiter goes to the till and realises they have been over charged, the meal was only £25.
So the waiter takes out £5, puts £2 in his pocket and gives back the men a pound each.
With me so far?
So the men each paid £9, thats £27 in total.
The waiter had £2.
Where's the other pound?
Jul 20th 2005, 7:25 am
#2
High in the Dandenongs
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Listening to Puffing Billy
Posts: 9,183
Re: Puzzler?????
Buggered if i know 
Jul 20th 2005, 7:27 am
#3
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,360
Re: Puzzler?????
I cant concentrate on this, I keep laughing at your avator! 
Jul 20th 2005, 7:28 am
#4
Crazy Cat Lady
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 65,493
Re: Puzzler?????
Originally Posted by hevs
Buggered if i know
Jul 20th 2005, 7:34 am
#5
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 671
Re: Puzzler?????
Originally Posted by pompeywill
3 men have a meal in a resturant, the bill comes to £30.
They each pay £10.
The waiter goes to the till and realises they have been over charged, the meal was only £25.
So the waiter takes out £5, puts £2 in his pocket and gives back the men a pound each.
With me so far?
So the men each paid £9, thats £27 in total.
The waiter had £2.
Where's the other pound?
They each pay £10.
The waiter goes to the till and realises they have been over charged, the meal was only £25.
So the waiter takes out £5, puts £2 in his pocket and gives back the men a pound each.
With me so far?
So the men each paid £9, thats £27 in total.
The waiter had £2.
Where's the other pound?
Had me and the missus sat here scratching our head for the last 10 minutes.....put us out of our misery peerrrleeease!
Ya Git!!
Jul 20th 2005, 7:34 am
#6
Bit more than Jnr. Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 35
Re: Puzzler?????
Okay, so there were thirty pounds in cash originally received by the waiter. At the end of the transaction, the total amount of cash in the "system" (25 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 1) still adds up to thirty, so there is no missing pound. In other words, all the different chunks of money add up to the original total of thirty pounds.
The fallacious missing pound creeps in when you start adding up the same money more than once.
In the story, it says that "So the men each paid £9, thats £27 in total. The waiter had £2"
However, the two pounds that the waiter has kept is part of the 27 pounds the guys have paid - it is not different money, so it can't be added to the guys' 27 pounds. You're counting it twice.
The fact that this meaningless value adds up to one less than thirty, which causes the "missing pound", is pure coincidence. If the guys had overpaid by fifteen pounds rather than five, and the waiter had still kept two pounds, then by this argument you would now have eleven missing pounds:
The guys' bill comes to 40 pounds
Waiter takes 15 pounds back
and keeps 2 pounds, gives the guys 13
Net result: The guys have paid 27 pounds, waiter keeps 2, sum 29.
Where's the other 11?
In other words, by choosing the numbers properly, you can make arbitrary amounts of money "go missing", because the underlying line of reasoning is completely wrong.
The fallacious missing pound creeps in when you start adding up the same money more than once.
In the story, it says that "So the men each paid £9, thats £27 in total. The waiter had £2"
However, the two pounds that the waiter has kept is part of the 27 pounds the guys have paid - it is not different money, so it can't be added to the guys' 27 pounds. You're counting it twice.
The fact that this meaningless value adds up to one less than thirty, which causes the "missing pound", is pure coincidence. If the guys had overpaid by fifteen pounds rather than five, and the waiter had still kept two pounds, then by this argument you would now have eleven missing pounds:
The guys' bill comes to 40 pounds
Waiter takes 15 pounds back
and keeps 2 pounds, gives the guys 13
Net result: The guys have paid 27 pounds, waiter keeps 2, sum 29.
Where's the other 11?
In other words, by choosing the numbers properly, you can make arbitrary amounts of money "go missing", because the underlying line of reasoning is completely wrong.
Jul 20th 2005, 7:37 am
#7
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Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 957
Re: Puzzler?????
Originally Posted by pompeywill
3 men have a meal in a resturant, the bill comes to £30.
They each pay £10.
The waiter goes to the till and realises they have been over charged, the meal was only £25.
So the waiter takes out £5, puts £2 in his pocket and gives back the men a pound each.
With me so far?
So the men each paid £9, thats £27 in total.
The waiter had £2.
Where's the other pound?
They each pay £10.
The waiter goes to the till and realises they have been over charged, the meal was only £25.
So the waiter takes out £5, puts £2 in his pocket and gives back the men a pound each.
With me so far?
So the men each paid £9, thats £27 in total.
The waiter had £2.
Where's the other pound?
£25 divided by 3 = they each paid £8.33
given back a pound = they each paid £9.33
£9.33 x 3 = £28
plus the waiters £2 = £30!!!
ok so I'm a smart a***
Jul 20th 2005, 7:37 am
#8
High in the Dandenongs
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Listening to Puffing Billy
Posts: 9,183
Re: Puzzler?????
Originally Posted by alneve2oz
Okay, so there were thirty pounds in cash originally received by the waiter. At the end of the transaction, the total amount of cash in the "system" (25 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 1) still adds up to thirty, so there is no missing pound. In other words, all the different chunks of money add up to the original total of thirty pounds.
The fallacious missing pound creeps in when you start adding up the same money more than once.
In the story, it says that "So the men each paid £9, thats £27 in total. The waiter had £2"
However, the two pounds that the waiter has kept is part of the 27 pounds the guys have paid - it is not different money, so it can't be added to the guys' 27 pounds. You're counting it twice.
The fact that this meaningless value adds up to one less than thirty, which causes the "missing pound", is pure coincidence. If the guys had overpaid by fifteen pounds rather than five, and the waiter had still kept two pounds, then by this argument you would now have eleven missing pounds:
The guys' bill comes to 40 pounds
Waiter takes 15 pounds back
and keeps 2 pounds, gives the guys 13
Net result: The guys have paid 27 pounds, waiter keeps 2, sum 29.
Where's the other 11?
In other words, by choosing the numbers properly, you can make arbitrary amounts of money "go missing", because the underlying line of reasoning is completely wrong.
The fallacious missing pound creeps in when you start adding up the same money more than once.
In the story, it says that "So the men each paid £9, thats £27 in total. The waiter had £2"
However, the two pounds that the waiter has kept is part of the 27 pounds the guys have paid - it is not different money, so it can't be added to the guys' 27 pounds. You're counting it twice.
The fact that this meaningless value adds up to one less than thirty, which causes the "missing pound", is pure coincidence. If the guys had overpaid by fifteen pounds rather than five, and the waiter had still kept two pounds, then by this argument you would now have eleven missing pounds:
The guys' bill comes to 40 pounds
Waiter takes 15 pounds back
and keeps 2 pounds, gives the guys 13
Net result: The guys have paid 27 pounds, waiter keeps 2, sum 29.
Where's the other 11?
In other words, by choosing the numbers properly, you can make arbitrary amounts of money "go missing", because the underlying line of reasoning is completely wrong.
Jul 20th 2005, 7:38 am
#9
Gone Senile Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Location: Sydney
Posts: 3,014
Re: Puzzler?????
Originally Posted by pompeywill
3 men have a meal in a resturant, the bill comes to £30.
They each pay £10.
The waiter goes to the till and realises they have been over charged, the meal was only £25.
So the waiter takes out £5, puts £2 in his pocket and gives back the men a pound each.
With me so far?
So the men each paid £9, thats £27 in total.
The waiter had £2.
Where's the other pound?
They each pay £10.
The waiter goes to the till and realises they have been over charged, the meal was only £25.
So the waiter takes out £5, puts £2 in his pocket and gives back the men a pound each.
With me so far?
So the men each paid £9, thats £27 in total.
The waiter had £2.
Where's the other pound?
If you actually said the men paid 30 had 3 refunded - total 27, the fact the waiter had change from 5 in his pocket has nothing to do with it.
Cheers
Jul 20th 2005, 7:40 am
#10
Bit more than Jnr. Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 35
Re: Puzzler?????
Sorry, that was a rather convoluted (if eloquent and loquatious) answer. Simply put:
It cost 25 quid + 2 quid tip = 27
They paid 30 quid
They got 3 quid back
i.e. There's a difference between money in your pocket, and hypothetical money in sums.
AJ.
It cost 25 quid + 2 quid tip = 27
They paid 30 quid
They got 3 quid back
i.e. There's a difference between money in your pocket, and hypothetical money in sums.
AJ.
Jul 20th 2005, 8:08 am
#11
forever hopeful
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: oh,i don't flippin know, why ask me
Posts: 1,879
Re: Puzzler?????
and another
Jul 20th 2005, 8:09 am
#12
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,360
Re: Puzzler?????
Originally Posted by louise4
and another oh good, it wasnt just me then!
Jul 20th 2005, 8:10 am
#13
Crazy Cat Lady
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 65,493
Re: Puzzler?????
Originally Posted by alneve2oz
Sorry, that was a rather convoluted (if eloquent and loquatious) answer. Simply put:
It cost 25 quid + 2 quid tip = 27
They paid 30 quid
They got 3 quid back
i.e. There's a difference between money in your pocket, and hypothetical money in sums.
AJ.
It cost 25 quid + 2 quid tip = 27
They paid 30 quid
They got 3 quid back
i.e. There's a difference between money in your pocket, and hypothetical money in sums.
AJ.
Jul 20th 2005, 8:10 am
#14
forever hopeful
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: oh,i don't flippin know, why ask me
Posts: 1,879
Re: Puzzler?????
Maths never was my strong point. mind you saying that i think all my points are a bit blunt
Jul 20th 2005, 8:36 am
#15
Bit more than Jnr. Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 35
Re: Puzzler?????
Originally Posted by Pootle
£25 divided by 3 = they each paid £8.33
given back a pound = they each paid £9.33
£9.33 x 3 = £28
plus the waiters £2 = £30!!!
ok so I'm a smart a***
given back a pound = they each paid £9.33
£9.33 x 3 = £28
plus the waiters £2 = £30!!!
ok so I'm a smart a***
Well, not quite a smar a***, as that would total £29.99 in which case with your "logic" there's still a penny "missing". The problem is that the guys didn't pay £9.33, they paid £9 1/3 - not much of a difference.
