Stormz

Hi Guys,

After `Spa-Gate` (The Professionals told me the spa at the house we were buying was legal and didn`t need a fence. We buy the house and find out it`s not even registered and DOES need a fence (at least $1,500). Agents say they told us it would need a fence (liars), and won`t do anything about it.

Apparently, according to the council pool inspector (Gosnells), he comes across the same sort of scenario a couple of times a week.

SO, I want to get some info ready for the press and tv and expose this sort of disgusting behaviour by Estate Agents.

If anyone with anything relevant to say please post here or PM me, and say whether you want to be anonymous (for press and tv) or not. The press/tv may not be interested, but if faced with this happening to quite a few people, they might be.

rossfive5

Sorry to hear about your trouble. We have also just bought a house with a pool. fortunately it has a fence. However, when we were looking for a house, we were told by one estate agent (sorry I cant remember who as we saw so many houses) that the new law about pools needing to be fenced was only coming into effect next year. I think the estate agents will tell you anything they think you want to hear to sell a house.
Mrs R

movetoperth

Stormz

sorry to hear you have been p****d about by the agents, but most of them will tell you that its green even though you can see its red if they think thats what you want to hear and it will make you buy it.

Sadly it is up to you to check with your local shire on fencing regs and make sure that it complies with it, not the agent, a good agent would have told you this, a shoddy agent couldn't care less and as a buyer it's the last thing you would think of doing, did you have the spa inspected?

Sorry i have no tales to share with you for your press release, but i can recommend a good fencing company www.fencemart.com.au i found them to be cheapest, fastest to deliver and great to deal with, you will have to put it up yourself but i know leads of people who've done it and had no dramas.

Lynn

andrew63

Can't help but tell you when we bought our house it had no pool fence and the estate agent pointed out that legally it needs one but the price of the house has already taken this into consideration!
I did read lately (and agree) that it is bizarre that a pool fence is manadatory at home but you can walk along the swimming area at Wynnum (amongst others) which has no fences around it all! Ie, Domestic abodes - mandatory. Public places - fences are not necessary! Crazy!

Andrew

Stormz

Agree. Weird. I never had a pool in the UK, so don`t know what the law was there. Aus: Upside down and sometimes backwards.

moneypenny20

The law is that even if a pool was put in a while ago, the owners don't necessarily need to put a fence around it, but as soon as they sell the property, the new owner has to put a fence round it. Each state has slightly different rules and the dates they came in, but I believe this rule only came in at the beginning of the year in WA. Could be wrong, but sure I heard that somewhere.

So, depending on when you bought the property, the agent may or may not have been telling the truth.

The law is to cover the owner from being sued if some little brat walks down the road, enters your property and drowns in your pool without your permission. If same brat fell in lake, sea, river etc strictly speaking there is no one to sue as there is no real owner, so no need for fencing.

Vash the Stampede

The "fence pool rule" came into effect largely as the result of public demand and the realisation (based on and plain old common sense) that unfenced pools are bloody dangerous when small children are around. Queensland alone had seen eight drownings a year in the period of 1992-2001.

People were getting rather sick and tired of dragging their toddlers' dead bodies out of the water. Strange, I know - but it seems that some people just don't like seeing their little one's dead, waterlogged bodies bobbing around what was previously a highly enjoyable feature of their property.

Yes, people should take more care - but people don't always take more care, and people often have other people looking after their children, who don't always take as much care as they should.

Fences are not required around pools in public places because pools in public places are (a) swarming with people, and (b) carefully watched by the pool lifeguards. With so many people around, there is little chance that anyone will drown unobserved. (You will notice, however, that there is always a fence around any complex which houses a public swimming pool.)

Click here for more on the rationale behind this legislation.

You may be interested to learn that the Yanks are doing it too (click here.)

Stormz

No. The law for spa`s came in 4 years ago (WA). They had to be registered and fenced by whoever owned the property at the time. Ours was neither registered or fenced.
You can`t be sued for just anyone coming in and choosing to drown in your pool/spa. That`s their tough luck. It`s to protect you, your kids, or any kids who visit you (that you KNOW to be there). I asked whether the tree stump next door had to be chopped down, as the kids there could conceivably climb over the fence with it and drown in the spa. The council guy said no, you`re only responsible for access to your property, not any brats climbing over the fence. If you have easy access (ie no door/fence/gate) around the side of the house though you may be sued if some brat walked in and drowned.
So, our agent lied when they said it didn`t need to be fenced. It wasn`t even registered. If we had known the council could have forced them to register and fence it before we bought it.
As it is we`ve emptied it, removed the filter and built a heavy cover for it out of piping, wood and metal sheets.

Vash you freak , I`m sure he was talking about the fact that the rivers and lakes etc don`t have fences (aren`t inundated by lots of ppl, and don`t have lifeguards). I`m sure he agreed (as I do), that home pools and spas need to be fenced.

Strange though that we could have taken the filter out and chucked a few goldfish in and hey-presto! A prefectly legal fish-pond. Don`t even need a cover for them.

Anyway. The drowned toddlers parent`s are too blame for not supervising well enough, not the lack of fencing.

movetoperth

[Anyway. The drowned toddlers parent`s are too blame for not supervising well enough, not the lack of fencing.[/QUOTE]

Stormz i really hope to god that nothing ever happens to one of your kids while your back is turned doing something for your other little one.

That is an awful attitude to have, parents and carers do not have eyes on the back of their heads, you cannot phisically watch the every move of your toddler every minute of the day and they manage to do things you would never expect.

I have friends who have a pool which isn't fenced, we wont visit them, its just too stressful, its not fun for the little one as he is told no all the time and is not allowed to run around and have fun, it is not fun for us because we cannot relax even for one second.... just incase.... That doesnt mean we are bad parents who are sitting back getting drunk and not supervising our kids, that means we have more than one child and its just possible that all 3 are not in our line of vision at the same time.

Lynn

Stormz

It won`t. We are EXTRA careful and watchful. Obviously some others haven`t been.

There`s a big difference between them bumping their heads on the furniture and running into the road (or the pool). If in any potentially life-threatening situation, you either have `eyes in the back of your head` OR you remove them from that situation. Doors can shut.

So you REMOVED them from the situation. Good decision. If you did visit, just don`t go outside with the kids.

We have 2 small girls (22 months and 6 months). Obviously the younger one isn`t mobile much yet. The other girl is kept an eye on ALL the time when in any potentially harmful situations. If we can`t keep a proper eye on her, then she stays somewhere safe where we can (ie inside the house, or in a chair).
I know some children who`ve drowned or been run over are not the fault of the parents... but I`d say MOST are down to the parents not being diligent enough. With drowning, it does actually take at least a few minutes. Do you know of any watchful parent who would let their toddler be out of their sight for a few minutes in a potentially hazardous area?

Some parents are just stupid. What about that lady in Perth who fell asleep on the couch holding her 3 month old baby? She woke up after she`d dropped the baby on the floor and it was crying. So does she go to bed? No! She decided to hold the baby on the couch again.... and she goes to sleep again. Except this time the baby doesn`t cry because the stupid fat bitch had fallen asleep ON THE BABY. One dead baby. One STUPID parent.

If your baby dies from your laziness or stupidity, it`s YOUR fault, not the laws or roads or pools etc... (not your babies obviously moveto...). I have no sympathy for people who let their children get in those easily avoidable situations.

The people across the road from me let their kids (about 6 or 7 years old) climb the roof and duck under the 240 volt cable, and let them ride all over the road with their bikes and ride in front of cars. They`re stupid parents. Obviously you`re not. And neither are we.

Cheetah7

To be honest, if I had a pool I would want it fenced off.

No matter what the situation, whos fault it is, I couldnt live in a property where a child had drowned in my pool.

Stormz

Exactly. Which is why we asked the agents about it and stupidly took their word. We had planned to get a lockable spa-cover for it, but by law it has to be fenced (we found out).

Never trust an estate agent.

movetoperth

Well Stormz i can only say that the reality of my life and yours must be poles apart, perhaps you'll understand where i'm coming from as your children get older and things get harder.

Lynn

phoenixinoz

In Queensland [not sure about anywhere else in Aus],

a) It is illegal not to have a fence up around a pool.

b) Even whilst a pool is being built, if you do not have a temporary fence and a burglar/visitor falls in the empty hole, the pool owner is held accountable and can potentially be sued for large sums for any accidents.

c) During pool construction, the pool company must also display a pool construction sign so as to ward off potential trespassers from going onto your property and falling in the half built pool /hole. The sign is also supposedly to stop children going into the garden.

d) Any windows facing the pool must be either fenced off or alternatively fixed bars placed on the windows to potentially stop children from gaining access to the pool from within the house [this is amazing as fixed bars are actually a fire hazard as fixed bars could esentially trap people inside the house ]

As for the point made earlier re public pools not being fenced in. Agree this is ludicrous. The point about no one being responsible is nonsense. The council or whoever owns the public pool should have no less responsibility than a home owner i.e there is as much likelihood of a child drowning in a public pool as there is a private pool however the rules are in place to limit the chance of these accident of occurring. Homeowners are held accountable so why shouldn't the council? Also, public places are NOT always monitored either!

Everyone has equal responsibility to ensure their pools are as safely guarded as possible. However where there's a will there's a way. I've noticed quite often where there are fences, there are garden tables and chairs. I don't know about anyone else's kids, but my boys were rat bags as kids...and I know if they would have wanted to get over the fence using the garden furniture, then wild horses wouldn't have stopped them. So what next? Legislate for garden furniture? Reality is we as parents have to do what we can to look after our own kids, and there will always be accidents. Genuine caring parents who turn their eyes for a second. This can happen in the bath. This can happen on the road. This can happen with a hot kettle, pan, cup of coffee etc. Should we fence in these things too?

Stormz; I know what you mean re real estate agents selling you something by being untrue. All you can do is learn from your experience and put it down to another learning curve

DagBoy

I genuinely do hope that you never find out the hard way how very very wrong you are.

Cheers,

DagBoy