Problems in paradise
#1
Lost in BE Cyberspace
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,375
Problems in paradise
Cant believe the work reform protests got so many aussies protesting, 120,000 turned out in Melbourne alone.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117...-28101,00.html
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117...-28101,00.html
#2
Re: Problems in paradise
Originally Posted by jad n rich
Cant believe the work reform protests got so many aussies protesting, 120,000 turned out in Melbourne alone.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117...-28101,00.html
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117...-28101,00.html
all too scared they'd be fired for taking time off....
#3
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Re: Problems in paradise
Originally Posted by spalen
all too scared they'd be fired for taking time off....
#4
Re: Problems in paradise
Originally Posted by jad n rich
Cant believe the work reform protests got so many aussies protesting, 120,000 turned out in Melbourne alone.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117...-28101,00.html
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117...-28101,00.html
#5
Re: Problems in paradise
As an outsider this appears to be similar to when Thatcher took on the unions in the 80's. Award Rates seems a strange concept to someone like me who entered the UK work place in the 90's, has never been a member of a union etc. The best form of job protection I have is that if they don't treat me well I have a strong enough cv to stick to fingers up at my boss and walk out knowing I could be in another job by the end of the week.
I am not setting out to be controversial (although I expect a certain sort of response) just after some background. Can anyone fill me in on the history, exactly what rights the unions fear being taken away etc?
I am not setting out to be controversial (although I expect a certain sort of response) just after some background. Can anyone fill me in on the history, exactly what rights the unions fear being taken away etc?
#6
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Re: Problems in paradise
Originally Posted by worzel
Can anyone fill me in on the history, exactly what rights the unions fear being taken away etc?
#7
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Re: Problems in paradise
Originally Posted by HUP
Do you support the reforms then ?
#8
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Re: Problems in paradise
From what I have read, the main reforms that are creating tension are:
The Howard Government will be legislating to exempt businesses who employ up to 100 employees from unfair dismissal laws.
The Government will continue to protect all employees by providing a remedy for unlawful termination, which prohibits dismissal for discriminatory grounds such as race, colour, sex, union membership, pregnancy and so on.
This is a bit confusing although the difference maybe in the terms "unfair" and "unlawful" termination.
For businesses with over 100 employees, the Government will better balance the unfair dismissal laws so that employees covered will be required to have been employed for six months before they can pursue an unfair dismissal remedy. This is an extension of the current 3-month qualifying period.
The employer would then have 6 months instead of 3 months to fire an employee without fearing a complaint.
The Howard Government will be legislating to exempt businesses who employ up to 100 employees from unfair dismissal laws.
The Government will continue to protect all employees by providing a remedy for unlawful termination, which prohibits dismissal for discriminatory grounds such as race, colour, sex, union membership, pregnancy and so on.
This is a bit confusing although the difference maybe in the terms "unfair" and "unlawful" termination.
For businesses with over 100 employees, the Government will better balance the unfair dismissal laws so that employees covered will be required to have been employed for six months before they can pursue an unfair dismissal remedy. This is an extension of the current 3-month qualifying period.
The employer would then have 6 months instead of 3 months to fire an employee without fearing a complaint.
#9
Re: Problems in paradise
Originally Posted by worzel
As an outsider this appears to be similar to when Thatcher took on the unions in the 80's. Award Rates seems a strange concept to someone like me who entered the UK work place in the 90's, has never been a member of a union etc. The best form of job protection I have is that if they don't treat me well I have a strong enough cv to stick to fingers up at my boss and walk out knowing I could be in another job by the end of the week.
I am not setting out to be controversial (although I expect a certain sort of response) just after some background. Can anyone fill me in on the history, exactly what rights the unions fear being taken away etc?
I am not setting out to be controversial (although I expect a certain sort of response) just after some background. Can anyone fill me in on the history, exactly what rights the unions fear being taken away etc?
#10
Re: Problems in paradise
for the record I support the reforms.
In uk you can get whacked up to 6mths and you can terminate without cause - realistically as an employer you need that to catch out the sheisters. I'd like to see some stats on who expects to get fired every 6mths - because any business that can afford to hire/train/lose/hire/train/lose is doing very well indeed and burning money. People are seen as a valuable resource in business I cant see any rationale for believing that a company will hire /fire/ just because they can.... In fact in UK you can employ someone for up to 2 years and still get away with firing them without cause - the employee cannot bring unfair dismissal.
The people most worried about this seem to be the unions, is that because they are worried that their power base has just been eroded ....
In uk you can get whacked up to 6mths and you can terminate without cause - realistically as an employer you need that to catch out the sheisters. I'd like to see some stats on who expects to get fired every 6mths - because any business that can afford to hire/train/lose/hire/train/lose is doing very well indeed and burning money. People are seen as a valuable resource in business I cant see any rationale for believing that a company will hire /fire/ just because they can.... In fact in UK you can employ someone for up to 2 years and still get away with firing them without cause - the employee cannot bring unfair dismissal.
The people most worried about this seem to be the unions, is that because they are worried that their power base has just been eroded ....
#11
Re: Problems in paradise
Originally Posted by jad n rich
Workers rights in this country are way below the standards of UK
#12
Re: Problems in paradise
Originally Posted by mr mover
NO equation, Britain in the 80,s was fed up to the back teeth , with constant striking, so Thatcher had a clear mandate. If she had tried the same thing here, with coal miners , she would have been "fanny slapped in to history", they are very productive ,and most strikes are concerned with Safety& occ situations. And Australia being such a small market, "sticking your fingers up " at the boss only goe,s so far till you become Known ,"as he who sticks his fingers up".. and they avoid you.................. mm, ps Sorry if this is the response you expected, cheers
#13
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Re: Problems in paradise
Originally Posted by spalen
.
The people most worried about this seem to be the unions, is that because they are worried that their power base has just been eroded ....
The people most worried about this seem to be the unions, is that because they are worried that their power base has just been eroded ....
The people more likely to be affected are those working for small companies (under 100) and casual workers, most of those people would never see a union.
I think from the UK people probably assume only unskilled people are employed without proper rights, but its not the case, many professionals, skilled and educated are employed casually in australia too.
Last edited by jad n rich; Jun 30th 2005 at 9:21 pm.
#14
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,149
Re: Problems in paradise
Originally Posted by mr mover
NO equation, Britain in the 80,s was fed up to the back teeth , with constant striking, so Thatcher had a clear mandate. If she had tried the same thing here, with coal miners , she would have been "fanny slapped in to history", they are very productive ,and most strikes are concerned with Safety& occ situations. And Australia being such a small market, "sticking your fingers up " at the boss only goe,s so far till you become Known ,"as he who sticks his fingers up".. and they avoid you.................. mm, ps Sorry if this is the response you expected, cheers
Anyone know what provisions there are in the IR proposals to counter the criminality involved with the CFMEU?
The federal state split of power where IR rules are involved complicates matters further. All the states are labour and anti change whilst the driver is a coalition government with control of both houses. Both sides may say they have a mandate. Some of it is also a power battle with the states battling for continued influence with industrial relations.
The 100 company limit proposals will mainly affect non-unionised staff in smaller companies. The unions are more worried about being bypassed with workplace agreements but are fighting the proposals by appealing to non unionised staff who will be affected.
#15
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Re: Problems in paradise
Originally Posted by bondipom
The 100 company limit proposals will mainly affect non-unionised staff in smaller companies. The unions are more worried about being bypassed with workplace agreements but are fighting the proposals by appealing to non unionised staff who will be affected.
I know of one person who has decided to join one, based on being told that they would lose their compulsory super under the reforms !
The main problem with all this, is knowing what and who to believe. They are all as bad as each other.