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Private versus Public School in Australia

Private versus Public School in Australia

Old Jan 25th 2018, 6:31 am
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Default Private versus Public School in Australia

Is this a recent development and clearly evident of the times we live in when first time parents start planning education before a child is even conceived?


Never heard this until recently, though hardly knowledgeable in the child raising area from personal experience, it did come as a bit of a surprise.


I'm told it is not uncommon with ever increasing interest in zoning and education options.


The existence of good public and private schools close by (and even good before and after school options) seems to be a determining factor in real estate decision making.


There certainly seems a pressure to send one kids to private school. It seems the consensus is that private schools have better facilities, aides in the classroom, extension classes, all those things public schools don't have.


Do kids really not fall through the cracks if in private? Discipline id judged as better.


But could a class factor be involved? I suspect that forms part of it. Their kids won't likely be surrounded by Bogan kids. A better class of teacher. More better paid although one expects the pressure must be tremendous from parents on teachers, since they are paying tens of thousands of dollars a year.
Hence the parents are clients. I gather some make a considerable sacrifice towards their kids education.


In seems Australia has become more elitist over time with 36% of Australian schools now private. Most OECD countries clock in at less than 10%.


Are public schools really so bad? Have Australian parents gone over the top in laying so much to enable their kids to attend private school? Keeping up with the Jones's? Win social kudos?


Is it saying something more about the country we are becoming. Most of all is it value for money?
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Old Jan 25th 2018, 10:14 am
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Default Re: Private versus Public School in Australia

Originally Posted by the troubadour
There certainly seems a pressure to send one kids to private school. It seems the consensus is that private schools have better facilities, aides in the classroom, extension classes, all those things public schools don't have.


Do kids really not fall through the cracks if in private? Discipline id judged as better.

But could a class factor be involved? I suspect that forms part of it.


In seems Australia has become more elitist over time with 36% of Australian schools now private. Most OECD countries clock in at less than 10%.

Are public schools really so bad? Have Australian parents gone over the top in laying so much to enable their kids to attend private school? Keeping up with the Jones's? Win social kudos?

Is it saying something more about the country we are becoming. Most of all is it value for money?
I've removed some text to respond to the specific points.

Undoubtedly private schools have better facilities. I don't think there is any debate on that, you just need to drive around a few schools and compare. The private schools are all newer, they have decent playing fields and other facilities. Plus all the extracurricular activities like sports and music etc,

Discipline is better in private, from what I've seen of many public schools they really don't care. Our local secondary college often has kids smoking to and from school, loitering in gangs at the local shopping centre (police have attended on occasion), no pride in their uniform or appearance etc. If you are an academic student it is not a good place to be.

It's definitely a class factor now, Melbourne especially has always been very snobby about what school you went to. Very cliquey boys networks exist there. but now in general I think people see public schools as a bad thing, with a few exceptions in places like McKinnon College, University High School etc. But even these places have poor facilities in comparison to most private schools. Lots of keeping up with the Jones's. And it's a vicious circle.

It's not value for money, and reports back that up. For a close comparison, NZ has a better education system, it's mostly public. But nearly every school in NZ has large grounds, multiple football fields and generally very good facilities. Many public schools in NZ are way better than even private schools in Australia.

Personally I think the private school situation is one of the worst aspects of Australian education

Just to add, someone will comment about university graduates being the same in most countries, this is obviously true, but I think good schooling can be a huge difference to whether they actually end up doing a degree in the first place

Last edited by sr71; Jan 25th 2018 at 10:16 am. Reason: Addition
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Old Jan 25th 2018, 10:36 am
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Default Re: Private versus Public School in Australia

In West Australian country towns, it is absolutely common for a child's schooling to be planned from birth. Effectively the ratio is 30% will leave, no matter what, 30% will stay, no matter what, and the remaining 40% are up for grabs.

The 30% who do leave, some of the reasons the parents give, aside from school quality, is to get their kids out of the fishbowl of country life and have them meet new people and experience new things in a metropolitan area, and to ensure that they have a strong "old tie" of like-minded peers they keep for life, which may not be possible in country areas. Agriculture economics also play a part and so when farming is good, more kids go away, and when it's bad, more stay home.

If the town's school is judged to be poor quality - it can actually sink an entire country town. People plan their work transfers and job situations to get to Perth or a country town with a better high school, soon after the child is born. So that creates a "brain drain" of professionals in town. Once they are gone, they are gone and don't come back. It can also create extra pressure to sell up and go to the city, if farming is bad, because the cost for private school + boarding can be exorbitant, and if you have two or three kids, you have to pick which one to send to private school and which one to "sacrifice" (not my words) to the local government school . . . and that will create family divisions and resentments.

You have to understand, farm life can be very lonely for a teenager, it's not like being in a city where you get on your bike and ride down the street and pass the houses of 10 other kids you know. The nearest neighbour can be 15 km away!

But not all country schools are judged to be poor quality, some are excellent and are perceived as such by the community, which will keep the kids there. Retention records aren't kept or calculated, but I know of some country schools that are perceived to keep near 100% of the kids, and some that lose upwards of 60% of them.

I wouldn't say that the quality of the private system is better, and I know teachers who I would not want at my local school, who have been finalists for positions at well-regarded private schools. But there are some advantages such as, with more possibility of grouping like-minded kids - you can run more specialist courses, and more specialist ATAR courses outside the core subjects, which you might not be able to do in a country school due to low numbers (ie, you can't burn a teacher on a class that only 2 or 3 kids want to take, but at a private school in the city, maybe 15 kids want to take it so the course will run there). Discipline is also better because unlike the public system, if a child isn't fitting in or is being massively disruptive, they can be excluded fairly easily. The mission statement of a private school is different and this can lead to flexibility and options a government school doesn't necessarily have.

When a country school starts to go south, it's really, really hard to stop that spiral and get it back on an upward trajectory again.
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Old Jan 25th 2018, 8:01 pm
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Default Re: Private versus Public School in Australia

Life is all about opportunity and private schools definitely give the students more opportunity and experiences based on the facilities and extra curricular activties.

Easy decision in my book.
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Old Jan 25th 2018, 10:47 pm
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Default Re: Private versus Public School in Australia

It varies from state to state I think. In Adelaide, the public schools, are, generally, of a good quality. The private schools vary greatly in cost, ranging from affordable to outrageous, but also vary in how good they are and this is not indicated by their fees!

There doesn't seem to be the snobbery around public v. private. We know more public families than private, and among Aussie adults we know, most of them went to public school. But of those we do know who use the private system, there is no snobbery involved, no elitism. The kids certainly don't care who goes to what school. I know of a few families who originally sent their kids to private, only to pull them out and go to public as they weren't happy at the private school.

Generally speaking, I think private schooling is more affordable in Australia, hence why more people choose it. Certainly in the UK, private schooling is not affordable for the average joe bloggs, hence the snobbery and elitism that appears to be rife in public schooling in the UK.
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Old Jan 25th 2018, 10:52 pm
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Default Re: Private versus Public School in Australia

My analysis revealed that the private schools closer to Melbourne CBD ($30k p.a.) performed better in VCE, but private schools in the suburbs had results similar to public schools. I think there is a small sub-set of private schools that offer 'advantage' through networking, but at a price.

Private schools have better facilities, but the public secondary schools in the suburbs have a gym and a large sports field. Will your child use the extra facilities?

Each to his own. It's your money, but I don't think it's necessary to send a kid to private school. My daughter went to the local sec, followed by Melbourne, and now works in accounting at an investment bank in NY. I think uni gets you more of a network than school.

You can check school results here, https://bettereducation.com.au/Default.aspx.

It's worth noting that private schools get government funding here. Second, I have always been surprised at how much Australians embrace private education, from the humble $8k p.a. Catholic school to the prestigious $30k p.a. private school. When it comes to schooling, Aussies beat the Poms in being snobs.
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Old Jan 25th 2018, 11:09 pm
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Default Re: Private versus Public School in Australia

I think there is a considerably amount of snobbery in Australia full stop. Education just reflects these values. This is something often in denial and may surprise some out siders, that Australia is not as egalitarian as the myth suggests.


I suppose there is the scary proposition that parents fear. Unless the kids do well in education they will be diminished to the role of a subservient to the better educated Chinese kids who are programed to succeed from a very early age.


More to say later, in a rush out now.
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Old Jan 26th 2018, 2:44 am
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Default Re: Private versus Public School in Australia

It's rarely a straight-up "public" versus "private" choice, many families mix the two in some configuration. It is common for parents to put their kids into private school for primary, and then switch them into the government system for secondary; it is also very common to utilize the government system from the start and then move a child into the private system for Years 11 and 12 (in country towns, that will usually mean boarding school). In Western Australia, the District High School is built around that concept.

Though, currently many private schools are doing their darndest to try and change that to a 9-12 conceptual model and have begun campaigns that children will be "behind" if they wait until Year 11 to join the private system and that they need to do it by Year 9.

This is why I often advise people moving to Australia and fretting about what private school to put their kids straight into, to just park their kids in a government school for a year and then sort it out, since many Australian families with a child on the ATAR track who wants to go private, won't do so until Year 11 anyways.

The elite private schools can be really expensive, $50,000 a year for tuition plus board, so multiply that times six years of secondary and two kids and you are up over half a million Dollars. Schooling is a huge issue in the regions, because you don't have choice that you do in the cities - it's the town school or bust, you can't just move a few streets over and into a different intake area like you can in a city - and needing to change schools means having to change jobs and houses or spending a huge amount of money and making your child leave home at age 11 or 12 to go to boarding school.

So if the local school goes sour, it is a huge knock-on effect, economically, on the community.
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Old Jan 26th 2018, 4:54 am
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Default Re: Private versus Public School in Australia

Interesting thread but hard to comment if you're not a parent. My first two kids in Oz went to public school ( no choice financially). I wouldn't do it again.

We live in Winchester in the U.K., which is not exactly known for its reasonable cost of living but due diligence in surrounding and not so surrounding towns tell us it's an obvious choice to stay here whilst we are in the U.K. The sole reason for us is schools. Flipper is 4 now and every school we are in the catchment for is good or outstanding.

But even within those rankings there are better schools than others ( depending what you want). We will return to Oz in the next 2-3 yrs and are about to buy a house in Winchester. The delta between being in catchment for a 'good, better, best' school is about £150-200k ( this also has to do with train station proximity but that doesn't affect us). Everything is about catchment.

We also have myriad private options here which go from affordable (£3k per term) to insane (£20k per term). A friend I race with works for one of the most exclusive and gets a massive discount if he chose to send his kids to the private school but he doesn't see the need.

However, Mrs TB and I have had many discussions about schooling when we return to Oz and Flipper will go to private school there, no question. The only decision which level of investment we make.

In my 27 yrs in Sydney, the difference seemed to be night and day, especially in the latter years I was there. Some great public schools exist but tend to be in areas that if you can afford to live in, you can afford private anyway. The advantage in Oz is the abundance of private schools and the various price points they come at, especially if you're Catholic ( which we have zero interest in).

I'm not sure if it's creating a snobby society or not. Winchester, for the most part is a bit of a snob bubble I suppose, so you don't really see it. But when we return to Oz, the situation won't be fixed by us sending Flipper to a public school, so we won't.

The education has many chances to get itself right but we have only one chance with our daughter.
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Old Jan 26th 2018, 6:24 am
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Default Re: Private versus Public School in Australia

My take would be with the ever increasing competitive nature of education and the neighbourhood we find ourselves in, workers will require more than just good marks at a private school.


Also the need for more to succeed outside of the Australian labour market , which is certainly limited, the need has never been greater for kids to compete with students from other education systems. Especially those in Asia. In all likelihood work will be increasingly offshore.


I'm quite a fan of the International Baccalaureat , something worth considering beyond Private schools.......
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Old Jan 26th 2018, 8:34 am
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Default Re: Private versus Public School in Australia

Originally Posted by the troubadour
My take would be with the ever increasing competitive nature of education and the neighbourhood we find ourselves in, workers will require more than just good marks at a private school.


Also the need for more to succeed outside of the Australian labour market , which is certainly limited, the need has never been greater for kids to compete with students from other education systems. Especially those in Asia. In all likelihood work will be increasingly offshore.


I'm quite a fan of the International Baccalaureat , something worth considering beyond Private schools.......
Mrs TB grew up in the Sth Korean, 12hrs a day at school system and she doesn't want that for our daughter but does want a higher standard than normal.

I think Flipper is already smarter than me.
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Old Jan 26th 2018, 11:05 am
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Default Re: Private versus Public School in Australia

What happens in South Korea, is a shock to the system. I assume your wife also participated in a hagwon.
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Old Jan 26th 2018, 11:14 am
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Default Re: Private versus Public School in Australia

It's not a new thing to apply to private schools the minute your child is born. Especially in rural areas (as others have pointed out).

My kids have done private, state and catholic in Australia. There are pros and cons for each. A few of my friends in Brisbane have saved their private school fees and bought apartments in South Brisbane to get their kids into State High. They leave them empty for six months and use them as a weekend retreat so that they have a mailing address for the school. Then at the end of secondary school, their kids have state education at a top notch school and they have an investment property.
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Old Jan 26th 2018, 5:38 pm
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Default Re: Private versus Public School in Australia

Originally Posted by carcajou
What happens in South Korea, is a shock to the system. I assume your wife also participated in a hagwon.
edited. Thought you meant language hagwon. No, she didn't attend one, she went to a very exclusive private school, all her extended hours were at the school or specialist venues (music, skating, art etc).

Last edited by Tr1boy; Jan 26th 2018 at 5:44 pm.
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Old Jan 26th 2018, 8:42 pm
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Default Re: Private versus Public School in Australia

Originally Posted by the troubadour
My take would be with the ever increasing competitive nature of education and the neighbourhood we find ourselves in, workers will require more than just good marks at a private school.
That's right. It always has been about competition. Even getting a university place is all about beating the next kid.

For education alone, most of the top level and most expensive private schools are a waste of money. The curriculum is the same, the material is the same, the final exams are the same. What you may get is teachers willing to put in the extra hours to help, but they have lives too and are often involved as sports and extra curricular activites limiting extra services. Are they better quality teachers? Who knows.

Its all about the extras during school and post school. They might be anything from sports, to drama, to music, to technology, to outward bound, to leadership training. All sorts of stuff.

Its also the winning and successful attitude private schools try to teach their students.

I know some very successful tradesmen to come out of private schools. Academically not the greatest, but all successful business owners, beating off their competition using the skills they learned away from the academic part of schooling.

Successful musicians is another than comes to mind. Sure you can do music lessons after school in the public system, but having the access to the facilities, on site, before, during and after school, and on weekends gives a music lover the edge.

Private schools are all about the extras.
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