Private schools v State schools
Dec 13th 2003, 10:16 am
#16
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Joined: Jun 2002
Location: Gold Coast- the best place in the world
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Great discussion guys. We are still thinking about the Private verses State issue for our kids. I teach in a Private school in Engalnd and I have taught in the State system and some State schools are fantastic, but the problem is you have to find them! Going to a new area means you wont really know anyone who can recommend the good ones!
Private schools in thr ukseem to offer more pastoral care, better sports and extra-curriculum facilities as well as smaller class sizes. I assume this would be the same in Aus schools, mind you the private ones I have contacted have quite large calsses so what will I be paying for???? My class over here only has 15 kids so I can give them a lot of attention, with 25/30 this is difficult!!
We have 3 children so if we choose to go private it will cost us a bit of money each year. If the state schools don't impress me we might do so, but some people seem happy with the state schools as well.
Anyone have any comments on Primary or secondary schools around Caloundra, Mooloolabah areas? Mountain Creek high has been recommended to me (state) and we will visit Sunshine Coast Grammar ( private). Any comments on these schools?
Private schools in thr ukseem to offer more pastoral care, better sports and extra-curriculum facilities as well as smaller class sizes. I assume this would be the same in Aus schools, mind you the private ones I have contacted have quite large calsses so what will I be paying for???? My class over here only has 15 kids so I can give them a lot of attention, with 25/30 this is difficult!!
We have 3 children so if we choose to go private it will cost us a bit of money each year. If the state schools don't impress me we might do so, but some people seem happy with the state schools as well.
Anyone have any comments on Primary or secondary schools around Caloundra, Mooloolabah areas? Mountain Creek high has been recommended to me (state) and we will visit Sunshine Coast Grammar ( private). Any comments on these schools?
Dec 13th 2003, 10:26 am
#17
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,384
I'm wondering about the timing of contacting schools. Unless you're sure exactly where you'll be living its difficult to enrol your children anywhere. I've heard that more popular private schools have waiting lists so is is wise to contact a few before arrival in probable areas rather than having to make do with whats available when you arrive?
Thanks for the links about queensland schools ABCDiamond, I found them very useful.
Michaela
Thanks for the links about queensland schools ABCDiamond, I found them very useful.
Michaela
Dec 13th 2003, 11:04 am
#18
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Location: Gold Coast- the best place in the world
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The timing is difficult. we are arriving in time for the start of the new school year so hopefully they might have a few unforeseen vacancies. Lots of the Private schools have told me they are full up, so even if we like them we will have to go elsewhere. There is so much disruption for children starting in one school and then moving soon after. It is a tricky one!!
Dec 14th 2003, 12:36 am
#19
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Joined: Sep 2001
Location: Sydney
Posts: 3,014
NickyC has very reasonable points on private vs state. We live in a different area of Sydney, Upper North Shore and from our research we knew we could not afford $15,000 per annum per child unless we moved out of Sydney and chose to commute - children included. We have chosen to live in a more expensive part in order for our children to be at decent state schools, within easy commute. From our research (for our children and our lives), there are decent state schools and many have as high or higher results as the private. Paying here does not mean smaller classes or higher results and you have to check what is best for your needs. On another view I have heard private means better opportunity later in terms of having been to the 'right' school.
I think what I am trying to say is private/state does not always mean better or worse, and this can depend on area.
Tinaj - I was hoping my son would pass his qualifying once he moved here and could move to one of the state grammers. He refused to sit the exam because he did not want to move schools again. I know each child is different but I think I would have world war three if I try to move mine!
Check out the schools both private and state, many have a process for the kids and not all are academic - you need to ask, some state schools both primary and high have opportunity classes that push the academic kids as well as stream the children for their needs, as well as private school concentrating on the person not the result.
It is a very difficult subject not least because the ones of us with school age kids from the UK education system felt we knew something about it - now we all have to start again. And there are no league tables or SATS here (regardless of how useless/useful they might be). You can get results from the libraries but they are not in easy format as tables.
Best of Luck in your choices
Sandra
I think what I am trying to say is private/state does not always mean better or worse, and this can depend on area.
Tinaj - I was hoping my son would pass his qualifying once he moved here and could move to one of the state grammers. He refused to sit the exam because he did not want to move schools again. I know each child is different but I think I would have world war three if I try to move mine!
Check out the schools both private and state, many have a process for the kids and not all are academic - you need to ask, some state schools both primary and high have opportunity classes that push the academic kids as well as stream the children for their needs, as well as private school concentrating on the person not the result.
It is a very difficult subject not least because the ones of us with school age kids from the UK education system felt we knew something about it - now we all have to start again. And there are no league tables or SATS here (regardless of how useless/useful they might be). You can get results from the libraries but they are not in easy format as tables.
Best of Luck in your choices
Sandra
Dec 14th 2003, 1:09 am
#20
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Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Lower Chittering, Perth
Posts: 4,646
[Can anyone suggest a good school in the North Perth area.
I have a 12 year old and a 16 year old (not sure what the situation is with the 16 year old as he has already left school hear)
The younger of the two is extremely clever, not saying the elder is stupid ( bit attitudey at the mo) and attends a fab school here in pompey. He mostly achieves A`s in exams
Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated
I have a 12 year old and a 16 year old (not sure what the situation is with the 16 year old as he has already left school hear)
The younger of the two is extremely clever, not saying the elder is stupid ( bit attitudey at the mo) and attends a fab school here in pompey. He mostly achieves A`s in exams
Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated
Dec 14th 2003, 11:43 pm
#21
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Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Manly West, east of Brisbane
Posts: 236
Hi all
We have been here 2 weeks and have some first hand experience of this topic, though hopefully not typical. We enrolled our 2 eldest [10 & 7] into the closest state primary school where we are living in Wynnum, just south of Brisbane. As the term had only a few days to go we asked if they could get into the school to meet some of the kids prior to the summer holidays. The eldest came back after the first day and they were swearing in the classroom continually, there was a big punch up between two of the boys and the teachers were in the classroom and didn't try and intervene in the fight or stop the swearing!
Today we went to the local Catholic School and they have been accepted, though we ourselves are not Catholics. The fees are very reasonable and are discounted for the more kids you take. We will have 3 kids going next term for $1,800 a year for all of them.
Steve
We have been here 2 weeks and have some first hand experience of this topic, though hopefully not typical. We enrolled our 2 eldest [10 & 7] into the closest state primary school where we are living in Wynnum, just south of Brisbane. As the term had only a few days to go we asked if they could get into the school to meet some of the kids prior to the summer holidays. The eldest came back after the first day and they were swearing in the classroom continually, there was a big punch up between two of the boys and the teachers were in the classroom and didn't try and intervene in the fight or stop the swearing!
Today we went to the local Catholic School and they have been accepted, though we ourselves are not Catholics. The fees are very reasonable and are discounted for the more kids you take. We will have 3 kids going next term for $1,800 a year for all of them.
Steve
Dec 15th 2003, 1:11 am
#22
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Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Scotland
Posts: 7,949
Originally posted by Sandra
NickyC has very reasonable points on private vs state. We live in a different area of Sydney, Upper North Shore and from our research we knew we could not afford $15,000 per annum per child unless we moved out of Sydney and chose to commute - children included. We have chosen to live in a more expensive part in order for our children to be at decent state schools, within easy commute. From our research (for our children and our lives), there are decent state schools and many have as high or higher results as the private. Paying here does not mean smaller classes or higher results and you have to check what is best for your needs. On another view I have heard private means better opportunity later in terms of having been to the 'right' school.
I think what I am trying to say is private/state does not always mean better or worse, and this can depend on area.
Tinaj - I was hoping my son would pass his qualifying once he moved here and could move to one of the state grammers. He refused to sit the exam because he did not want to move schools again. I know each child is different but I think I would have world war three if I try to move mine!
Check out the schools both private and state, many have a process for the kids and not all are academic - you need to ask, some state schools both primary and high have opportunity classes that push the academic kids as well as stream the children for their needs, as well as private school concentrating on the person not the result.
It is a very difficult subject not least because the ones of us with school age kids from the UK education system felt we knew something about it - now we all have to start again. And there are no league tables or SATS here (regardless of how useless/useful they might be). You can get results from the libraries but they are not in easy format as tables.
Best of Luck in your choices
Sandra
NickyC has very reasonable points on private vs state. We live in a different area of Sydney, Upper North Shore and from our research we knew we could not afford $15,000 per annum per child unless we moved out of Sydney and chose to commute - children included. We have chosen to live in a more expensive part in order for our children to be at decent state schools, within easy commute. From our research (for our children and our lives), there are decent state schools and many have as high or higher results as the private. Paying here does not mean smaller classes or higher results and you have to check what is best for your needs. On another view I have heard private means better opportunity later in terms of having been to the 'right' school.
I think what I am trying to say is private/state does not always mean better or worse, and this can depend on area.
Tinaj - I was hoping my son would pass his qualifying once he moved here and could move to one of the state grammers. He refused to sit the exam because he did not want to move schools again. I know each child is different but I think I would have world war three if I try to move mine!
Check out the schools both private and state, many have a process for the kids and not all are academic - you need to ask, some state schools both primary and high have opportunity classes that push the academic kids as well as stream the children for their needs, as well as private school concentrating on the person not the result.
It is a very difficult subject not least because the ones of us with school age kids from the UK education system felt we knew something about it - now we all have to start again. And there are no league tables or SATS here (regardless of how useless/useful they might be). You can get results from the libraries but they are not in easy format as tables.
Best of Luck in your choices
Sandra
The moral from this is that there are good and bad in both sectors so do your homework (true, probably more bad in the state sector but you aren't paying fees).
'At the end of the day' it isn't really private vs state - it just comes down to whether the fees you pay, which can be up to $20,000 or more are worth it. (I know someone who pays for their 2 children to go to Geelong Grammar and they are shelling out more than $20k p.a. per child when you include trips, uniforms, music lessons, sports coaching etc).
OzTennis
Dec 15th 2003, 10:26 am
#23
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Posts: n/a
OzTennis
I completely agree with your comment
And of course the difficult thing is finding out in advance !
And what can make it all the more important is that, in general, the schooling that the child gets can shape his/her future for life.
When we grow up in an area, and then our kids grow up in the same area, at least we have an idea of the local schools. But, when we move to the other side of the world, we are kind of gambling with our kids education much more.
When I was a kid, I didnt like the "better" schools, and purposefully failed exams etc, until I got kicked out and put down into a "normal" school. ( I hope my Dad's not reading this now :scared: )
But I have ended up putting my own daughter into a private school over here, but only because the state system was detrimental for her. Unfortunately, the only answer, that I can see, is for the States to spend more money on getting more Good Concientious and Caring teachers. There are some around, maybe even lots, but; How do you find them ?
A bad teacher in a Private school is worse than a good teacher in a State school. But the Private schools generally pay better, and therefore get the cream of the teachers.
I completely agree with your comment
'At the end of the day' it isn't really private vs state - it just comes down to whether the fees you pay are worth it
And what can make it all the more important is that, in general, the schooling that the child gets can shape his/her future for life.
When we grow up in an area, and then our kids grow up in the same area, at least we have an idea of the local schools. But, when we move to the other side of the world, we are kind of gambling with our kids education much more.
When I was a kid, I didnt like the "better" schools, and purposefully failed exams etc, until I got kicked out and put down into a "normal" school. ( I hope my Dad's not reading this now :scared: )
But I have ended up putting my own daughter into a private school over here, but only because the state system was detrimental for her. Unfortunately, the only answer, that I can see, is for the States to spend more money on getting more Good Concientious and Caring teachers. There are some around, maybe even lots, but; How do you find them ?
A bad teacher in a Private school is worse than a good teacher in a State school. But the Private schools generally pay better, and therefore get the cream of the teachers.
Dec 15th 2003, 10:36 am
#24
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 454
Originally posted by cookies
Hi all
We have been here 2 weeks and have some first hand experience of this topic, though hopefully not typical. We enrolled our 2 eldest [10 & 7] into the closest state primary school where we are living in Wynnum, just south of Brisbane. As the term had only a few days to go we asked if they could get into the school to meet some of the kids prior to the summer holidays. The eldest came back after the first day and they were swearing in the classroom continually, there was a big punch up between two of the boys and the teachers were in the classroom and didn't try and intervene in the fight or stop the swearing!
Today we went to the local Catholic School and they have been accepted, though we ourselves are not Catholics. The fees are very reasonable and are discounted for the more kids you take. We will have 3 kids going next term for $1,800 a year for all of them.
Steve
Hi all
We have been here 2 weeks and have some first hand experience of this topic, though hopefully not typical. We enrolled our 2 eldest [10 & 7] into the closest state primary school where we are living in Wynnum, just south of Brisbane. As the term had only a few days to go we asked if they could get into the school to meet some of the kids prior to the summer holidays. The eldest came back after the first day and they were swearing in the classroom continually, there was a big punch up between two of the boys and the teachers were in the classroom and didn't try and intervene in the fight or stop the swearing!
Today we went to the local Catholic School and they have been accepted, though we ourselves are not Catholics. The fees are very reasonable and are discounted for the more kids you take. We will have 3 kids going next term for $1,800 a year for all of them.
Steve
Sandy
Dec 15th 2003, 8:06 pm
#25
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Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Scotland
Posts: 7,949
Originally posted by ABCDiamond
OzTennis
I completely agree with your comment
And of course the difficult thing is finding out in advance !
And what can make it all the more important is that, in general, the schooling that the child gets can shape his/her future for life.
When we grow up in an area, and then our kids grow up in the same area, at least we have an idea of the local schools. But, when we move to the other side of the world, we are kind of gambling with our kids education much more.
When I was a kid, I didnt like the "better" schools, and purposefully failed exams etc, until I got kicked out and put down into a "normal" school. ( I hope my Dad's not reading this now :scared: )
But I have ended up putting my own daughter into a private school over here, but only because the state system was detrimental for her. Unfortunately, the only answer, that I can see, is for the States to spend more money on getting more Good Concientious and Caring teachers. There are some around, maybe even lots, but; How do you find them ?
A bad teacher in a Private school is worse than a good teacher in a State school. But the Private schools generally pay better, and therefore get the cream of the teachers.
OzTennis
I completely agree with your comment
And of course the difficult thing is finding out in advance !
And what can make it all the more important is that, in general, the schooling that the child gets can shape his/her future for life.
When we grow up in an area, and then our kids grow up in the same area, at least we have an idea of the local schools. But, when we move to the other side of the world, we are kind of gambling with our kids education much more.
When I was a kid, I didnt like the "better" schools, and purposefully failed exams etc, until I got kicked out and put down into a "normal" school. ( I hope my Dad's not reading this now :scared: )
But I have ended up putting my own daughter into a private school over here, but only because the state system was detrimental for her. Unfortunately, the only answer, that I can see, is for the States to spend more money on getting more Good Concientious and Caring teachers. There are some around, maybe even lots, but; How do you find them ?
A bad teacher in a Private school is worse than a good teacher in a State school. But the Private schools generally pay better, and therefore get the cream of the teachers.
I won't enter into a debate about quality of teaching state vs private though.
What I will say though is that I think the main reason for generally higher attainment of private school pupils is the home environment and parental expectations and better resources (and not so much the supposed superior teaching standards). I have experience of both sectors so know first hand about supposed 'superiority' of private sector teaching.OzTennis
Dec 15th 2003, 10:07 pm
#26
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Manly West, east of Brisbane
Posts: 236
Originally posted by Sandy.l
Was this Wynnum North? My Cuz lives in this area and has told me there is a bit of a bullying problem there (her kids are approaching school age). She is considering Lindum as an alternative.
Sandy
Was this Wynnum North? My Cuz lives in this area and has told me there is a bit of a bullying problem there (her kids are approaching school age). She is considering Lindum as an alternative.
Sandy
Steve
Dec 15th 2003, 10:38 pm
#27
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Joined: Jun 2003
Location: Sydney beachside
Posts: 3,506
I would agree with that OzTennis, up to a point.
If you've made a large financial investment in your child's education, you're going to make extra sure that they make the most of their opportunities, do their homework, no skiving off etc. The parental interest and involvement at my kids' school is phenomenal - but I'll admit that a lot of families there are extremely well off so (unlike me) many mothers don't have to work and therefore have the time to do tuckshop, volunteering, fundraising etc.
My other point is that, I have no doubt whatever, that there are excellent and dedicated teachers in the State System. However, it's practically impossible to get rid of the dud ones (a public service job plus a very powerful teachers union in NSW means they've got their job for life). Whereas, if you don't shape up in the private system, you're shown the door very quickly. So while excellent teachers are found in both systems - there'd be a higher proportion of non-performing ones in the State Schools.
If you've made a large financial investment in your child's education, you're going to make extra sure that they make the most of their opportunities, do their homework, no skiving off etc. The parental interest and involvement at my kids' school is phenomenal - but I'll admit that a lot of families there are extremely well off so (unlike me) many mothers don't have to work and therefore have the time to do tuckshop, volunteering, fundraising etc.
My other point is that, I have no doubt whatever, that there are excellent and dedicated teachers in the State System. However, it's practically impossible to get rid of the dud ones (a public service job plus a very powerful teachers union in NSW means they've got their job for life). Whereas, if you don't shape up in the private system, you're shown the door very quickly. So while excellent teachers are found in both systems - there'd be a higher proportion of non-performing ones in the State Schools.
Jan 2nd 2004, 2:21 pm
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Just found this snippet of info on Private Schools in Australia:
More than 1 million students, around 30per cent of all school-age children, go to private schools.
More than 1 million students, around 30per cent of all school-age children, go to private schools.
