Positive signs in the Australian Real Estate Market
Oct 22nd 2013, 2:46 pm
#76
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Re: Positive signs in the Australian Real Estate Market
Actually I think what has been said was that property was more affordable in the UK in comparison to Australia. I dont think anything has been said about how affordable it is in isolation.
No, I keep hearing how affordable property is the UK.
A comparison was made between Brisbane and Cambridge and I looked up some facts which didn't seem to back up the impression.
It was in the news yesterday about the over 100% annual rate of house price inflation in London so I posted it.
Today, in relation to MP's about to get a rise to £74K basic it said the average UK wage/salary was £26,664. That's $45,300 p.a. roughly.
ABS reports for May 2013 that all employees average weekly earnings are $1,105 or $57,460 p.a.
With the median prices already mentioned $600's Sydney/Perth; lower for Melbourne etc and average incomes $12,160 higher do the Maths anyone.
eg Sydney median/average annual income = multiple of 11
London average/average annual income = multiple of 20
How far from London do you have to go for the multiple to come down from 20 to 11 I wonder?
I would add further that Sydney figures are for houses only (not units/flats); London figures are for all dwellings.
April UK figures were £26,500 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20442666
ABS http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]?OpenDocument
A comparison was made between Brisbane and Cambridge and I looked up some facts which didn't seem to back up the impression.
It was in the news yesterday about the over 100% annual rate of house price inflation in London so I posted it.
Today, in relation to MP's about to get a rise to £74K basic it said the average UK wage/salary was £26,664. That's $45,300 p.a. roughly.
ABS reports for May 2013 that all employees average weekly earnings are $1,105 or $57,460 p.a.
With the median prices already mentioned $600's Sydney/Perth; lower for Melbourne etc and average incomes $12,160 higher do the Maths anyone.
eg Sydney median/average annual income = multiple of 11
London average/average annual income = multiple of 20
How far from London do you have to go for the multiple to come down from 20 to 11 I wonder?
I would add further that Sydney figures are for houses only (not units/flats); London figures are for all dwellings.
April UK figures were £26,500 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20442666
ABS http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]?OpenDocument
Oct 22nd 2013, 2:57 pm
#77
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Re: Positive signs in the Australian Real Estate Market
You can't really make a fair comparison between London and any Australian city, particularly somewhere like Brisbane (you wouldn't compare Glasgow with Sydney property values).
Prime Central London (which is fuelling the recent crazy rises) now has almost no buyers from the UK. Many flats/houses are bought as tax efficient schemes by investors and never lived in.
Other cities in the UK are showing very modest growth, and a report I saw today said the midlands has had 3 months of negative growth despite the Government launching 2 schemes which should have raised property prices.
At the end of the day, the biggest cities in both countries need far more affordable housing. It's a real sign of the times that prices going upward from record bubble-induced highs is described as a 'positive sign'.
I'm pretty sure young people who will never afford their own home don't think it's overly positive.
Prime Central London (which is fuelling the recent crazy rises) now has almost no buyers from the UK. Many flats/houses are bought as tax efficient schemes by investors and never lived in.
Other cities in the UK are showing very modest growth, and a report I saw today said the midlands has had 3 months of negative growth despite the Government launching 2 schemes which should have raised property prices.
At the end of the day, the biggest cities in both countries need far more affordable housing. It's a real sign of the times that prices going upward from record bubble-induced highs is described as a 'positive sign'.
I'm pretty sure young people who will never afford their own home don't think it's overly positive.
The foreign investment thing gets me. I'm quite intrigued how it actually works as a tax incentive in both Australia and the UK for foreign investors.
A foreign investor can't negatively gear in Australia unless they have Australian income of other sorts. Maybe they don't need to negatively gear and they buy the property outright. Again intrigued to know what the tax benefits actually are in both the UK and Oz.
Oct 22nd 2013, 2:59 pm
#78
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Re: Positive signs in the Australian Real Estate Market
Precisely; that's my point; I don't think it IS definitely more affordable in the UK as the figures show. You might say why quote London figures, most of us don't come from there BUT most of you go to Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and Perth and then complain about the price relative to from whence you came. Compare like for like. A London/Sydney comparison is worth making (without wishing all the 'London is a world city, Sydney isn't' comments). It's the biggest city in each country.
Oct 22nd 2013, 3:07 pm
#79
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Re: Positive signs in the Australian Real Estate Market
Precisely; that's my point; I don't think it IS definitely more affordable in the UK as the figures show. You might say why quote London figures, most of us don't come from there BUT most of you go to Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and Perth and then complain about the price relative to from whence you came. Compare like for like. A London/Sydney comparison is worth making (without wishing all the 'London is a world city, Sydney isn't' comments). It's the biggest city in each country.
Affordability in both countries is low but Australia does apparently have the least affordable in the world and it is hard to argue with that.
Oct 22nd 2013, 3:33 pm
#80
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Re: Positive signs in the Australian Real Estate Market
Actually the figures just show wage comparisons using todays exchange rate which means nothings, did Australians earn $5000 more a year ago when the rate was at its lowest or did they earn $10,000 less when it was $2.7?
Affordability in both countries is low but Australia does apparently have the least affordable in the world and it is hard to argue with that.
Affordability in both countries is low but Australia does apparently have the least affordable in the world and it is hard to argue with that.
So, a Sydney average house today, $640K = £376K (using $1.7)
A Sydney average house today, $640K @ £1 = $2 is £320K.
At $2.7 a Sydney house used to be peanuts. That's the point - the deterioration of the £/strengthening of the AUD has made one hell of a difference to UK/Australia comparisons.
Some more figures (not impressions or sound bites) just looking at Australia and not using exchange rates:
I went back to Feb 2005 for these figures:
Average weekly earnings all employees Australia Feb 2005 (ABS) were $780 - $40,560 p.a. 2013 $57,000'sh - 42% rise.
Sydney median house price Feb 2005 - $505,000. 2013 $640K - 27% rise.
So it turns out over the last 8 years that Sydney median house price has risen 27% and Australian average income has risen 42%.
Last edited by OzTennis; Oct 22nd 2013 at 3:38 pm.
Oct 22nd 2013, 8:03 pm
#81
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Posts: 137
Re: Positive signs in the Australian Real Estate Market
From what I heard and saw about Australian house prices while in NZ and what I actually saw in the UK and all things being considered (access to culture, history, education, solid houses) the UK seems to be a better deal.
Oct 22nd 2013, 8:51 pm
#82
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Re: Positive signs in the Australian Real Estate Market
Oct 22nd 2013, 11:35 pm
#83
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Re: Positive signs in the Australian Real Estate Market
You would agree that £stg has usually been worth a lot more up until the last year or so?
So, a Sydney average house today, $640K = £376K (using $1.7)
A Sydney average house today, $640K @ £1 = $2 is £320K.
At $2.7 a Sydney house used to be peanuts. That's the point - the deterioration of the £/strengthening of the AUD has made one hell of a difference to UK/Australia comparisons.
Some more figures (not impressions or sound bites) just looking at Australia and not using exchange rates:
I went back to Feb 2005 for these figures:
Average weekly earnings all employees Australia Feb 2005 (ABS) were $780 - $40,560 p.a. 2013 $57,000'sh - 42% rise.
Sydney median house price Feb 2005 - $505,000. 2013 $640K - 27% rise.
So it turns out over the last 8 years that Sydney median house price has risen 27% and Australian average income has risen 42%.
So, a Sydney average house today, $640K = £376K (using $1.7)
A Sydney average house today, $640K @ £1 = $2 is £320K.
At $2.7 a Sydney house used to be peanuts. That's the point - the deterioration of the £/strengthening of the AUD has made one hell of a difference to UK/Australia comparisons.
Some more figures (not impressions or sound bites) just looking at Australia and not using exchange rates:
I went back to Feb 2005 for these figures:
Average weekly earnings all employees Australia Feb 2005 (ABS) were $780 - $40,560 p.a. 2013 $57,000'sh - 42% rise.
Sydney median house price Feb 2005 - $505,000. 2013 $640K - 27% rise.
So it turns out over the last 8 years that Sydney median house price has risen 27% and Australian average income has risen 42%.
Well. You are the only one producing stats. Certainly buries bluff and bravado
Oct 23rd 2013, 12:37 am
#84
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Re: Positive signs in the Australian Real Estate Market
Oct 23rd 2013, 1:13 am
#85
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Location: Brisbane northern suburbs
Posts: 1,154
Re: Positive signs in the Australian Real Estate Market
Statistics:
In Australia the average salary is $83,000 (average male earnings) and the average house price is $501,000 (not strictly true as this is the average of the median prices quoted for each capital city) so it takes 6 years salary to buy a house.
In the UK the average salary is £24,600 and the average house price is £224,000, so it takes 9.1 years salary to buy a house.
The only way to make a true comparison, leaving exchange rates out of it.
In Australia the average salary is $83,000 (average male earnings) and the average house price is $501,000 (not strictly true as this is the average of the median prices quoted for each capital city) so it takes 6 years salary to buy a house.
In the UK the average salary is £24,600 and the average house price is £224,000, so it takes 9.1 years salary to buy a house.
The only way to make a true comparison, leaving exchange rates out of it.
Last edited by KJCherokee; Oct 23rd 2013 at 1:15 am.
Oct 23rd 2013, 1:19 am
#86
MODERATOR
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 29,862
Re: Positive signs in the Australian Real Estate Market
Statistics:
In Australia the average salary is $83,000 (average male earnings) and the average house price is $501,000 (not strictly true as this is the average of the median prices quoted for each capital city) so it takes 6 years salary to buy a house.
In the UK the average salary is £24,600 and the average house price is £224,000, so it takes 9.1 years salary to buy a house.
The only way to make a true comparison, leaving exchange rates out of it.
In Australia the average salary is $83,000 (average male earnings) and the average house price is $501,000 (not strictly true as this is the average of the median prices quoted for each capital city) so it takes 6 years salary to buy a house.
In the UK the average salary is £24,600 and the average house price is £224,000, so it takes 9.1 years salary to buy a house.
The only way to make a true comparison, leaving exchange rates out of it.
Oct 23rd 2013, 1:27 am
#87
Almost more Oz than Pom
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Brisbane northern suburbs
Posts: 1,154
Re: Positive signs in the Australian Real Estate Market
Because they were the most convenient statistics, and a lot of first home buyers have only one income which is usually the male as the female is looking after the children.
It is difficult to get exactly matching statistics from Australia and the UK: for example house price stats in Aus are always quoted separately for each capital, ignoring country areas, whereas UK quotes a countrywide average. And Brisbane stats probably don't include Ipswich, for instance. So all these comparisons need to be viewed with a fairly wide error margin, but even taking that into account it looks as though Australia is more affordable than the UK.
It is difficult to get exactly matching statistics from Australia and the UK: for example house price stats in Aus are always quoted separately for each capital, ignoring country areas, whereas UK quotes a countrywide average. And Brisbane stats probably don't include Ipswich, for instance. So all these comparisons need to be viewed with a fairly wide error margin, but even taking that into account it looks as though Australia is more affordable than the UK.
Oct 23rd 2013, 1:28 am
#88
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Joined: Dec 2003
Location: Upmarket
Posts: 17,503
Re: Positive signs in the Australian Real Estate Market
Statistics:
In Australia the average salary is $83,000 (average male earnings) and the average house price is $501,000 (not strictly true as this is the average of the median prices quoted for each capital city) so it takes 6 years salary to buy a house.
In the UK the average salary is £24,600 and the average house price is £224,000, so it takes 9.1 years salary to buy a house.
The only way to make a true comparison, leaving exchange rates out of it.
In Australia the average salary is $83,000 (average male earnings) and the average house price is $501,000 (not strictly true as this is the average of the median prices quoted for each capital city) so it takes 6 years salary to buy a house.
In the UK the average salary is £24,600 and the average house price is £224,000, so it takes 9.1 years salary to buy a house.
The only way to make a true comparison, leaving exchange rates out of it.
Last edited by Grayling; Oct 23rd 2013 at 1:31 am.
Oct 23rd 2013, 1:33 am
#89
MODERATOR
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 29,862
Re: Positive signs in the Australian Real Estate Market
Because they were the most convenient statistics, and a lot of first home buyers have only one income which is usually the male as the female is looking after the children.
It is difficult to get exactly matching statistics from Australia and the UK: for example house price stats in Aus are always quoted separately for each capital, ignoring country areas, whereas UK quotes a countrywide average. And Brisbane stats probably don't include Ipswich, for instance. So all these comparisons need to be viewed with a fairly wide error margin, but even taking that into account it looks as though Australia is more affordable than the UK.
It is difficult to get exactly matching statistics from Australia and the UK: for example house price stats in Aus are always quoted separately for each capital, ignoring country areas, whereas UK quotes a countrywide average. And Brisbane stats probably don't include Ipswich, for instance. So all these comparisons need to be viewed with a fairly wide error margin, but even taking that into account it looks as though Australia is more affordable than the UK.
Oct 23rd 2013, 1:57 am
#90
Almost more Oz than Pom
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Location: Brisbane northern suburbs
Posts: 1,154
Re: Positive signs in the Australian Real Estate Market
Originally Posted by Grayling
Not if you are a cash buyer......salary multiples are irrelevant