Passport Dilema
 

Hi All, Here's my dilema!

I live in Australia with my British girlfriend, we have two children, Sam - born in Uk, now 3 yrs old, and Tristan, 3 weeks old, born in Australia.

We are not married, Sam has a British Passport as do myself and my girlfriend. We ant to get a passport for Tristan. However on approaching the passport enquiries office they have informed us that we cannot have a British passport for Tris because we are not married and Tris will have an Aussie birth certificate. My girlfriend though a British passport holder with british parents was born in Kenya and therefore doesn't hold a British Birth certificate - which is also a contributing factor to Tris not getting a British passport.

Does this sound crazy or what! Tris can't get an Aussie passport because we are both non-residents (and are applying for residency). Though our residency will not go through until Tris has a British passport!! Catch 22, 23, and 24!

Apparently we can apply for 'registration' for Tris with the British authorities which can take 12 months! Then we can apply for a passport! This can't be right - surely - will common sense prevail - unlikely!

Does anyone have any similar experiences or advice??

Best regards,

Adam, Ginny, Sam and Tris! :)

Re: Passport Dilema
 

that's very interesting. Does this mean that Tristan (lovely name, btw) is a citizen of nowhere. I know that your parent needs to have been born or naturalised in the UK for someone to qualify for a passport. Does this mean that neither you nor your wife were born there? Were you not naturalised either? I am sure Jeremy will be along to help shortly..good luck!

Re: Passport Dilema
 

Now theres a dilemma ;)

Jeremy is very knowledgable in these areas, though you may find it equally beneficial to see an agent to sort out your whole family for the long-term.

Re: Passport Dilema
 

That is not true. Your PR application should be unaffected if it's an onshore application. If it's an offshore application then you need to go offshore for visa grant, and that's going to be difficult until the child has a passport.

Three months is more likely.

It's the only way to get British citizenship for the child. Why? Because you're not married and hence citizenship does not pass automatically. It will however be granted on application.

British citizenship doesn't pass automatically from the mother in this case because she is British by descent. Again - a registration application is needed.

Get on with it immediately. The fact the child is stateless is also a reason for the Home Office to 'fast-track' the application, make this point very clear and don't hesitate to get your MP (in the UK) involved if processing doesn't happen quickly.

The sooner you apply, the sooner your child gets citizenship.

I presume you're aware that if you had come to Australia as permanent residents your child would have acquired Australian citizenship by birth. Incidentally, the child has automatically been granted your existing 457 visa (under s78 of the Migration Act).

Jeremy

Re: Passport Dilema
 

What a great site, two replies already - can't wait to hear from Jeremy.

I am a British citizen born and bred. My girlfriend's parents are both british citizens born and bred ( they just happened to be in Kenya when she was born).

We have lodged our residency application (last April) before we knew Tris was coming along. They are about to start processing it and advised us to get Tris's passport sorted out ready to include him in the application. Hence we have discovered our 'dilema'.

You are right - he is a non-citizen. We can't leave the country. If I get kicked out of Oz for whatever reason (we are currently here on a 457 visa through my work) what would we do with Tris. I can almost picture the excitement on the faces of the British Immigration Officers. I hear they have lovely detention centres these days for illegal immigrants! :rolleyes:

Looking forward to seeing your furter comments,

Adam, Ginny, Sam and Tris

Re: Passport Dilema
 

He is not automatically passing on British citizenship because he is not married. The mother does not automatically pass on British citizenship because she's British by descent. And as they are not PR, the child does not have Australian citizenship.

Hence the child is stateless. However the UK will grant citizenship once a registration application is made.

If there was no way to get British citizenship, then Australia would register the child as Australian.

Citizenship law is an area that requires the utmost respect. There is a solution in this case (to register the child as British) but it depends on the responsibility of the parents to sort it out.

Jeremy

Re: Passport Dilema
 

That's great, thanks Jeremy, we will be lodging a egistration application immediatley. Our situation is further compounded by the fact we need to get back to the Uk in June for a family wedding but the passport enquiries personnel have told us there is no way that a registration application can be fast tracked.

Do we apply for registration and citizenship for Tris at the same time ???

Adam, Ginny, Sam and Tris

Re: Passport Dilema
 

Who's 'they'?

Your child does not need to have a passport to be included in the application. However as I've noted, if you are going to have to go offshore, then it's needs a passport by the time visa is granted.

As noted - point out to the British High Commission and Home Office that the child is stateless and hence the need for urgent processing of the citizenship application. Three months is a typical timeframe for registration but they could do it more quickly if they liked.

Jeremy

Re: Passport Dilema
 

Registration is to make him a British citizen. You apply to the British High Commission and they forward it to the Home Office in Liverpool. The HO will send back a Certificate of Registration for him - then you apply for a passport as normal (and get his visa stamped in the passport).

Of course it can be done more quickly if the circumstances warrant (as they do) - don't listen to the bureaucrat-speak coming from the front desk of the passport office. Lodge the application, include *all* the documentation they need, make the circumstances very clear and if it's not done in a month then start asking hard questions.

Don't hesitate to write to your former MP in the UK and ask him or her to intervene if they don't process it quickly. Believe me - they can process a citizenship application in a few days if they wish. Three months is an average time for this kind of registration but you should not have to wait that long.

Jeremy

Re: Passport Dilema
 

You have been very helpful Jeremy and we thank you hugely. We will be following your advice and fingers crossed this will quickly become a non-dilemma.

Kindest regards,

Adam, Ginny, Sam and Tris :)

Re: Passport Dilema
 

This page explains what you need to do:
http://bhc.britaus.net/passports/pas...ult.asp?id=376

You may want to bring your passports personally so that they can take copies in the consulate. As noted - processing times quoted ought to be quicker in your case as long as you ask for fast-tracking.

Jeremy

Re: Passport Dilema
 

Gosh what an awkward situation... I was also born in Kenya but just assumed it was standard for a British expat to be issued with a birth certificate from the British High Commission. I presume then your girlfriends parents didn't register themselves or her birth with the British High Commission when they were living there?

Re: Passport Dilema
 

A consular birth certificate doesn't stop you being British 'by descent'

If you are going to have any children born outside the UK, make yourself very familiar with this page if you want your children to be British:
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind...tizenship.html


Jeremy

Re: Passport Dilema
 

So the best solution is that the parents get married?

I would imagine that the problem would be solved.

Re: Passport Dilema
 

If the parents get married then *normally* the child acquires British citizenship at that point, although this can sometimes be a complex question.

It is not necessary for the parents to be married for the child to acquire British citizenship by registration, but application must be made before age 18. The Home Office only started accepting applications of this type in early 2000, although children born before then can still be registered if they are under 18 now. Once the child turns 18, options to get British citizenship become more restricted.

When I talk about the responsibility of the parents to sort it out, I generally mean they are responsible for making the application - and not putting it to one side simply because someone who doesn't know the law and policy has told them their child can't be British, or that processing will take a long time (true in neither case). Even if that person is a consulate employee.


Jeremy

Re: Passport Dilema
 

That would seem to solve the problem, however neither my girlfriend nor myself are interested in marriage, and even less so if forced to become married due to beaurocracy.

Re: Passport Dilema
 

Hi Jeremy,

So it appears then that I would be in the 'by descent' category, so I've leant something new today.

I have one more question as it's not clear to me from reading the Home Office text, my husband recently naturalised, what category does he fall into? A British Citizen 'otherwise than by descent'? :confused:

Cheers
SC

Re: Passport Dilema
 

A naturalised British citizen is always British 'otherwise than by descent'.

If one is registered British (ie has a Certificate of Registration rather than a Certificate of Naturalisation) then it depends on circumstances.

If he's naturalised, and you have children in Australia, they will automatically get British citizenship from him. Just make sure you document things by getting any such kids a British passport immediately.

Jeremy

Re: Passport Dilema
 

None of this thread is relevant to me but it does make for interesting reading - hope it all gets sorted out (especially in time for the wedding)! :)

Re: Passport Dilema
 

Thanks for the information. I do find it a bizarre situation to be in, I'm British from birth with British parents and cannot pass on my citizenship to my children if they are born outside of the UK, yet my husband who acquired his naturalisation certificate/British citizenship because he's married to me, is able to pass on his British citizenship.

Re: Passport Dilema
 

There are certain circumstances in which a British citizen by descent *can* pass on citizenship to a non-UK born child. Read this page:
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind...tizenship.html

There is also discretionary registration which can be used in special cases (eg the child is stateless).

In your case it's irrelevant as if they get British citizenship from one parent automatically they don't worry too much about the other parent's status.

Many other countries also have to deal with this issue to stop citizenship passing on down the generations:

- New Zealand does not allow citizens by descent to pass on citizenship to non-NZ born children in any circumstance other than statelessness of the child or (I think) parent working for the NZ govt overseas.
However NZ has a strange law that allows someone who is NZ by descent to become a naturalised New Zealander by application (the problem is you need to know about the facility).

- Canadians by descent can pass on Canadian citizenship to non-Canada born children, but these children (the second generation born overseas after February 1977) must return to Canada to live, and apply to retain Canadian citizenship otherwise they lose citizenship on their 28th birthday. The first losses of Canadian citizenship will start kicking in on 15th February this month (28 years since Canada implemented its current citizenship law).

- The US doesn't have a concept of citizenship by descent, but instead insists that all US citizens wishing to pass on citizenship to non-US born children must meet a residence requirement in the US.

And so on. Different countries has a different way of dealing with this, but there is normally a work-around for those who know the law well enough.

Jeremy

Re: Passport Dilema
 

I know that Britain does have "legitimate" fast-track procedures
for certain categories, including eliminating statelessness,
when processing citizenship claims. But, it seems that the
current trend in Britain is to play it cool on the issues of
"fast tracking" after the resignation of Home Secretary
David Blunkett, for fast tracking a visa application.
The parents should continually place emphasis that
the child is stateless AND they may want to use the
term "expedite" rather than "fast track".

Stephen Gallagher