parents to foot wage increase for childcare workers
Jan 7th 2004, 2:09 am
#1
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parents to foot wage increase for childcare workers
Child-care workers 'underpaid'
CHILD-CARE workers deserve better pay and conditions and the Federal Government should raise spending on its child-care benefit so wages could rise without disadvantaging parents, a new report says.
But Children and Youth Affairs Minister Larry Anthony has rejected the advice - compiled by his own think tank of 55 experts - and says the Government will not foot the bill.
• Poor pay puts career in doubt
"I do recognise that many people working in the child-care sector are not paid well and they do need to be paid more," Mr Anthony said yesterday. "We are mindful though that if there are going to be increases in costs, they need to be moderate so they can be absorbed by parents and the wider community."
Mr Anthony said some parents were happy to pay $70 an hour for a plumber but not happy to provide a couple of dollars an hour for child care.
Child-care workers say parents in WA are paying $40 to $60 a day and the maximum parents can receive under the means-tested child-care benefit is $133 a week.
It is estimated there are 80,000 child-care workers in Australia who look after 800,000 children.
The Child Care Workforce think tank report concluded that the biggest issue facing the sector was poorly trained and poorly paid workers, echoing evidence given to a Senate committee inquiry into poverty in Perth last year.
Liquor, Hospitality and Miscellaneous Workers Union national president Helen Creed said working parents should demand that the Federal Government face up to its responsibilities.
"The Federal Government can't hide its head in the sand hoping the crisis of poorly paid child-care workers will just disappear," Ms Creed said.
"A Federal Government prepared to hand millions of dollars out to rich private schools can't avoid also providing support to struggling child-care centres on the fringes of our regions."
Child Care Association of WA executive officer Graeme Winters said it was not a reasonable solution to expect parents to pay for child-care workers' wage rises.
Mr Winters said it seemed contradictory that the Federal Government stressed the importance of the early years but was giving child care lip service.
Poor pay puts career in doubt
CHILD-CARE worker Karma Lord says she loves making a difference to children's lives, but like thousands of her colleagues, the low pay means she is not sure where her future lies.
Ms Lord, 25, an assistant director at a northern suburbs child-care centre, takes home about $500 a week. A second job in hospitality at weekends helps pay her car loan, rent and bills.
After two years study at TAFE and six years working, Ms Lord said she sometimes questioned her career decision.
"I often think I could have studied anything else for two years and I would be earning more money," Ms Lord said. "The actual job itself is great and I get a lot of rewards from being a big part of little people's lives."
She knew of many child-care workers who left the industry in their 20s because of the poor pay. Many became teachers.
She did not think parents would be happy to pay more to fund wage increases for staff.
"I think the whole industry is really undervalued," Ms Lord said. "We don't get treated like professionals. You get treated like babysitters."
CHILD-CARE workers deserve better pay and conditions and the Federal Government should raise spending on its child-care benefit so wages could rise without disadvantaging parents, a new report says.
But Children and Youth Affairs Minister Larry Anthony has rejected the advice - compiled by his own think tank of 55 experts - and says the Government will not foot the bill.
• Poor pay puts career in doubt
"I do recognise that many people working in the child-care sector are not paid well and they do need to be paid more," Mr Anthony said yesterday. "We are mindful though that if there are going to be increases in costs, they need to be moderate so they can be absorbed by parents and the wider community."
Mr Anthony said some parents were happy to pay $70 an hour for a plumber but not happy to provide a couple of dollars an hour for child care.
Child-care workers say parents in WA are paying $40 to $60 a day and the maximum parents can receive under the means-tested child-care benefit is $133 a week.
It is estimated there are 80,000 child-care workers in Australia who look after 800,000 children.
The Child Care Workforce think tank report concluded that the biggest issue facing the sector was poorly trained and poorly paid workers, echoing evidence given to a Senate committee inquiry into poverty in Perth last year.
Liquor, Hospitality and Miscellaneous Workers Union national president Helen Creed said working parents should demand that the Federal Government face up to its responsibilities.
"The Federal Government can't hide its head in the sand hoping the crisis of poorly paid child-care workers will just disappear," Ms Creed said.
"A Federal Government prepared to hand millions of dollars out to rich private schools can't avoid also providing support to struggling child-care centres on the fringes of our regions."
Child Care Association of WA executive officer Graeme Winters said it was not a reasonable solution to expect parents to pay for child-care workers' wage rises.
Mr Winters said it seemed contradictory that the Federal Government stressed the importance of the early years but was giving child care lip service.
Poor pay puts career in doubt
CHILD-CARE worker Karma Lord says she loves making a difference to children's lives, but like thousands of her colleagues, the low pay means she is not sure where her future lies.
Ms Lord, 25, an assistant director at a northern suburbs child-care centre, takes home about $500 a week. A second job in hospitality at weekends helps pay her car loan, rent and bills.
After two years study at TAFE and six years working, Ms Lord said she sometimes questioned her career decision.
"I often think I could have studied anything else for two years and I would be earning more money," Ms Lord said. "The actual job itself is great and I get a lot of rewards from being a big part of little people's lives."
She knew of many child-care workers who left the industry in their 20s because of the poor pay. Many became teachers.
She did not think parents would be happy to pay more to fund wage increases for staff.
"I think the whole industry is really undervalued," Ms Lord said. "We don't get treated like professionals. You get treated like babysitters."
Jan 7th 2004, 3:18 am
#2
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some points here:
1. We see massive turnoever of staff in the centre my kids go to - and the view above that many go into teaching seems to be true in my experience.
2. Yes they get rubbish pay
3. If you pass on more cost to parents then more parents will take the view that one of the parents careers will have to go. Currently my childcare bill makes it just about productive for my wife to work.
4. The government choice to actively fund private schools whilst running down state schools is a disgrace.
1. We see massive turnoever of staff in the centre my kids go to - and the view above that many go into teaching seems to be true in my experience.
2. Yes they get rubbish pay
3. If you pass on more cost to parents then more parents will take the view that one of the parents careers will have to go. Currently my childcare bill makes it just about productive for my wife to work.
4. The government choice to actively fund private schools whilst running down state schools is a disgrace.
Jan 7th 2004, 3:29 am
#3
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Location: Dream life UK....
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Originally posted by RichS
some points here:
1. We see massive turnoever of staff in the centre my kids go to - and the view above that many go into teaching seems to be true in my experience.
2. Yes they get rubbish pay
3. If you pass on more cost to parents then more parents will take the view that one of the parents careers will have to go. Currently my childcare bill makes it just about productive for my wife to work.
4. The government choice to actively fund private schools whilst running down state schools is a disgrace.
some points here:
1. We see massive turnoever of staff in the centre my kids go to - and the view above that many go into teaching seems to be true in my experience.
2. Yes they get rubbish pay
3. If you pass on more cost to parents then more parents will take the view that one of the parents careers will have to go. Currently my childcare bill makes it just about productive for my wife to work.
4. The government choice to actively fund private schools whilst running down state schools is a disgrace.
Cutbacks are becoming very evident, local state school here has dropped starting a second language from grade 4 to grade 7 which is a bit late really. By half way through the year the kids were copying out notes as the photocopy allowance had run out, despite parents being asked to provide one rheem each kid anyway(most dont). Art was dropped, no funds for materials, bit hard on kids aged 6 I felt.
Push push if half the kids in the Country went to Private School that must save the govvy heaps? What is it now 30%
Jan 7th 2004, 4:00 am
#4
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dotty - I fear you are right, and that's why I think it's a disgrace.
It's IMHO quite sad to have to watch first hand the demise of 2 state systems in 2 countries that are both things to be proud of, one would have thought, namely education and health in the UK and Aus.
It's IMHO quite sad to have to watch first hand the demise of 2 state systems in 2 countries that are both things to be proud of, one would have thought, namely education and health in the UK and Aus.
Jan 7th 2004, 9:08 am
#5
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Location: Back in UK
Posts: 750
Originally posted by RichS
some points here:
1. We see massive turnoever of staff in the centre my kids go to - and the view above that many go into teaching seems to be true in my experience.
2. Yes they get rubbish pay
3. If you pass on more cost to parents then more parents will take the view that one of the parents careers will have to go. Currently my childcare bill makes it just about productive for my wife to work.
4. The government choice to actively fund private schools whilst running down state schools is a disgrace.
some points here:
1. We see massive turnoever of staff in the centre my kids go to - and the view above that many go into teaching seems to be true in my experience.
2. Yes they get rubbish pay
3. If you pass on more cost to parents then more parents will take the view that one of the parents careers will have to go. Currently my childcare bill makes it just about productive for my wife to work.
4. The government choice to actively fund private schools whilst running down state schools is a disgrace.
It seems the 'seeds' of paying for your childrens pre-school/school/college education are in fruition. Further trouble will be when childcare costs add up to more than one parents wage. Will this also limit the number of children couples decide to have?
Jan 7th 2004, 9:59 am
#6
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Originally posted by Jirrupin
I have recently heard that the quality of childcare provision in Perth is quite poor, with poorly trained staff. I also posted about the increase in WA parents wanting their children to go to private schools, costs varying from $2000-8000 per annum.
It seems the 'seeds' of paying for your childrens pre-school/school/college education are in fruition. Further trouble will be when childcare costs add up to more than one parents wage. Will this also limit the number of children couples decide to have?
I have recently heard that the quality of childcare provision in Perth is quite poor, with poorly trained staff. I also posted about the increase in WA parents wanting their children to go to private schools, costs varying from $2000-8000 per annum.
It seems the 'seeds' of paying for your childrens pre-school/school/college education are in fruition. Further trouble will be when childcare costs add up to more than one parents wage. Will this also limit the number of children couples decide to have?
Plus in order to be able to provide care for children that are eligible for government benefit (forget the name of it) they must be accredited (as well as licensed). This involves a huge amount of expense and form-filling on the part of the facility - being accredited means the government even dictates the shapes and sizes of building bricks that the kids can play with!
Even traditional child-minding is regulated. People looking after children (other than their own) privately in their own homes for money are subject to inspections by the appropriate authorities.
Personally I have no problem paying for childcare or schooling. I want the best for my kids and think I get a better service by paying more, so I'm happy to pay it. I don't view it as much different to buying a car - you want quality you pay extra for it.
I definitely don't believe that the tax payer is responsible for providing free childcare for anyone except the needy. If you can't afford the kids, don't have them.
Jan 7th 2004, 11:22 am
#7
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evorobins girlie says..... as a poorly paid child care worker myself i would like to say that i definately dont do it for the money! I too believe we deserve more..at least to the standard of a bar person or waitress....i know hospitality workers are on $5 more an hour than I..and theres a lot to the job too...not just watching kids all day ..like..legal stuff, ratios, accreditation and standards , accounting, banking, cleaning, first aid, programming, then all the responsability of raising decent kids. The 59 children in our centre are all school age and when they aren't at school they're with us...we help them through their formative years with an educational program, discipline, guidence, friendship, fun and lots of love. I know i really care about my kids and i do it for them. It would be lovely to be recogonised for it..and maybe one day we will.
In Dec 04 (in SA) the bar is being raised,as far as qualifications for child carers, and a lot of older workers will be leaving rather than re train. Its just not worth their while to upgrade. So it wont be long untill theres a shortage of child carers. Then maybe when working families cant find a place for their children...what then??Maybe .....it will be the shake up we need to get recognised for the important job we do.
In Dec 04 (in SA) the bar is being raised,as far as qualifications for child carers, and a lot of older workers will be leaving rather than re train. Its just not worth their while to upgrade. So it wont be long untill theres a shortage of child carers. Then maybe when working families cant find a place for their children...what then??Maybe .....it will be the shake up we need to get recognised for the important job we do.
Jan 7th 2004, 11:36 am
#8
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I guess in a way your profession is a casualty of a world which won't admit that it's out of kilter if most mums HAVE to go out to work. 2 earners are needed to bring the standard of living that one used to get. It's similar to the way that the price of starter homes now generally assumes two salaries AND a parents deposit. That's why I'm uncomfortable when I hear people say "If you can't afford to raise kids, don't have them." What hope for the future then?
Originally posted by evorobin
evorobins girlie says..... as a poorly paid child care worker myself i would like to say that i definately dont do it for the money! I too believe we deserve more..at least to the standard of a bar person or waitress....i know hospitality workers are on $5 more an hour than I..and theres a lot to the job too...not just watching kids all day ..like..legal stuff, ratios, accreditation and standards , accounting, banking, cleaning, first aid, programming, then all the responsability of raising decent kids. The 59 children in our centre are all school age and when they aren't at school they're with us...we help them through their formative years with an educational program, discipline, guidence, friendship, fun and lots of love. I know i really care about my kids and i do it for them. It would be lovely to be recogonised for it..and maybe one day we will.
In Dec 04 (in SA) the bar is being raised,as far as qualifications for child carers, and a lot of older workers will be leaving rather than re train. Its just not worth their while to upgrade. So it wont be long untill theres a shortage of child carers. Then maybe when working families cant find a place for their children...what then??Maybe .....it will be the shake up we need to get recognised for the important job we do.
evorobins girlie says..... as a poorly paid child care worker myself i would like to say that i definately dont do it for the money! I too believe we deserve more..at least to the standard of a bar person or waitress....i know hospitality workers are on $5 more an hour than I..and theres a lot to the job too...not just watching kids all day ..like..legal stuff, ratios, accreditation and standards , accounting, banking, cleaning, first aid, programming, then all the responsability of raising decent kids. The 59 children in our centre are all school age and when they aren't at school they're with us...we help them through their formative years with an educational program, discipline, guidence, friendship, fun and lots of love. I know i really care about my kids and i do it for them. It would be lovely to be recogonised for it..and maybe one day we will.
In Dec 04 (in SA) the bar is being raised,as far as qualifications for child carers, and a lot of older workers will be leaving rather than re train. Its just not worth their while to upgrade. So it wont be long untill theres a shortage of child carers. Then maybe when working families cant find a place for their children...what then??Maybe .....it will be the shake up we need to get recognised for the important job we do.
Jan 7th 2004, 11:58 am
#9
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I'm a childcare worker & in my opinion we are so badly paid I need to seriously think about retraining & doing something else. I too have to pay for childcare in the school holidays & it is barely worth my while working.
For vac care the maximum cost of a days care, with lowest level of subsidy, is $33. At an exchange rate of 2.4 that equates to £13.75 a day. How cheap is that? Most parents have a higher level of subsidy and can pay as little as $7 (£2.92)! This includes morning & afternoon tea and a day trip out. The trips alone make it excellent value. As a profession it is grossly undervalued. We have to be trained & are entrusted with people's children, yet are paid a pittance.
Don't get me started! Do people really value their children's care so little they would begrudge paying a little more for it -yes. Not all, but a lot do yes. At the end of the day we deserve to earn a respectable wage too. People seem to think it's an easy job, it isn't.
Loopy (driven Loopy by all those kids!)
For vac care the maximum cost of a days care, with lowest level of subsidy, is $33. At an exchange rate of 2.4 that equates to £13.75 a day. How cheap is that? Most parents have a higher level of subsidy and can pay as little as $7 (£2.92)! This includes morning & afternoon tea and a day trip out. The trips alone make it excellent value. As a profession it is grossly undervalued. We have to be trained & are entrusted with people's children, yet are paid a pittance.
Don't get me started! Do people really value their children's care so little they would begrudge paying a little more for it -yes. Not all, but a lot do yes. At the end of the day we deserve to earn a respectable wage too. People seem to think it's an easy job, it isn't.
Loopy (driven Loopy by all those kids!)
Jan 7th 2004, 12:44 pm
#10
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Location: Sydney
Posts: 3,014
As a mum who worked - in the UK I spent almost my total earnings after tax on child care for my children while they were younger at different times. If it had not been for my sister helping we would have stuggled so much while I retrained etc. I have utmost admiration for all child care support.
I am currently paying $15 a day for after school care for my 11 year old. School holidays - the club is only open a few weeks and we pay approx $45 a day. I do not convert back as we earn Aussie and this is very reasonable for our incomes because the 13 year old refuses supervised care now, but if it was both then my husband would have a new job at home!
From talking to colleagues and friends here in Sydney - plus being the only female in my large department with youngish children, child care costs are steep for the wages and the subsidies are ? Can someone explain the subsidies please.
Cheers
I am currently paying $15 a day for after school care for my 11 year old. School holidays - the club is only open a few weeks and we pay approx $45 a day. I do not convert back as we earn Aussie and this is very reasonable for our incomes because the 13 year old refuses supervised care now, but if it was both then my husband would have a new job at home!
From talking to colleagues and friends here in Sydney - plus being the only female in my large department with youngish children, child care costs are steep for the wages and the subsidies are ? Can someone explain the subsidies please.
Cheers
Jan 7th 2004, 12:50 pm
#11
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Joined: Jan 2004
Location: well, i thought it was perth, but apparently not!!
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Originally posted by Jirrupin
I have recently heard that the quality of childcare provision in Perth is quite poor, with poorly trained staff. I also posted about the increase in WA parents wanting their children to go to private schools, costs varying from $2000-8000 per annum.
I have recently heard that the quality of childcare provision in Perth is quite poor, with poorly trained staff. I also posted about the increase in WA parents wanting their children to go to private schools, costs varying from $2000-8000 per annum.
If I didn't hate children so much and wasn't paranoid about the litigous society the world seems to be turning into, I would start a day care! I would rake it in!!
.......however, I am destined to be a computer geek and make my fortune that way
Jan 7th 2004, 7:24 pm
#12
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,149
The reason people pay for childcare is to work themselves. If the cost of childcare is above their take home pay then the mother is financially better off being at home.
As I have consistently said, if the older generation wants someone to change their colostomy bags they had better start letting in younger immos or pay more taxes for child friendly policies.
It is pointless being wealthy in retirement when there is no one to look after you.
As I have consistently said, if the older generation wants someone to change their colostomy bags they had better start letting in younger immos or pay more taxes for child friendly policies.
It is pointless being wealthy in retirement when there is no one to look after you.
Jan 7th 2004, 7:39 pm
#13
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I used to be a Family Day Care provider working from home. I had to adhere to all the current regulations, program and provide activities, have educational plans for each child to develop their individual abilities, have 1st Aid certs, child proof my home to certain safety standards, etc etc etc.........all for the HUGE sum of $3.30 an hour per child!
Many parents do not pay any child care fees at all as they are on lower incomes and get the full subsidy. When I gave it away two years ago the minimum subsidy available was 16.8% - so every parent got at least something and in my business the average was around 75% subsidy. One of my families used 150 hours care per fortnight and paid me around $360 per fortnight for care, both parents working good, well paid jobs.
Many parents do not pay any child care fees at all as they are on lower incomes and get the full subsidy. When I gave it away two years ago the minimum subsidy available was 16.8% - so every parent got at least something and in my business the average was around 75% subsidy. One of my families used 150 hours care per fortnight and paid me around $360 per fortnight for care, both parents working good, well paid jobs.
Jan 7th 2004, 7:42 pm
#14
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One of my families used 150 hours care per fortnight and paid me around $360 per fortnight for care, both parents working good, well paid jobs.
150 hours in 10 days = 15 hours a day.
Did that kid ever see her parents while she was awake???
Jan 7th 2004, 7:53 pm
#15
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Originally posted by CHnJ
5 working days a week x 2 = 10 days
150 hours in 10 days = 15 hours a day.
Did that kid ever see her parents while she was awake???
5 working days a week x 2 = 10 days
150 hours in 10 days = 15 hours a day.
Did that kid ever see her parents while she was awake???
Two brothers - one pre school age and one at school. From around 7am to 6pm. The little one I had 55 hours a week, and the other before and after school. But in defence of the parents they put a lot of quality time in with their kids in the evenings and on the weekends - more than a lot of stay at home parents do, although the younger one did call me 'mummy' now and then!