Obscure Rules in Oz
May 13th 2005, 1:28 pm
#91
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,277
Re: Obscure Rules in Oz
I wonder what "Superior" posted (posts 90 & 91) 
A.
A.
May 13th 2005, 1:31 pm
#92
Rocket Scientist
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Dreamland AKA Brisbane which is a different country to the UK
Posts: 6,911
Re: Obscure Rules in Oz
Originally Posted by kirsty&al
At the beginning of all this I was just pointing out why leaving kids in a car is dangerous, and that, some people are stupid enough to do it. I can now see that it was unreasonable for me to post this 
Silly me
.
May 13th 2005, 1:32 pm
#93
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: May 2004
Location: Birkdale QLD
Posts: 7,642
Re: Obscure Rules in Oz
Originally Posted by kirsty&al
I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion! But to clarify: I don't believe there is a SPECIFIC law (in the terms of your previous posts) that makes it illegal to leave kids alone in a car in Australia? I believe people are prosecuted under a more general law (in a similar way to the UK), for example, “endangering the health of children under 12 by exposure”.
At the beginning of all this I was just pointing out why leaving kids in a car is dangerous, and that, some people are stupid enough to do it. I can now see that it was unreasonable for me to post this
Regards
Alistair
At the beginning of all this I was just pointing out why leaving kids in a car is dangerous, and that, some people are stupid enough to do it. I can now see that it was unreasonable for me to post this
Regards
Alistair
Thrashing around a bit Alistair?
I won't go in for the kill, I'm to nice of a guy for that.
Cheers,
JTL
May 13th 2005, 1:33 pm
#94
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Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Dreamland AKA Brisbane which is a different country to the UK
Posts: 6,911
Re: Obscure Rules in Oz
Originally Posted by kirsty&al
I wonder what "Superior" posted (posts 90 & 91)
A.
A.
.Im off to bed, I'll leave JTL to find someone else to argue with, seems thats what floats his boat lately, must be the 6 weeks of rain we've had up here
.
Last edited by MrsDagboy; May 13th 2005 at 1:36 pm.
May 13th 2005, 1:35 pm
#95
Lost in BE Cyberspace
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Location: Birkdale QLD
Posts: 7,642
Re: Obscure Rules in Oz
Originally Posted by MrsDagboy
LOL, of course I hijacked this thread, this is the world according to JTL .
.Sorry guys can't be arsed with this argument anymore, I'd call it a draw, except I'm right and you are wrong
G'Night,
JTL
May 13th 2005, 1:53 pm
#96
Tupperware's #1 fan
Joined: May 2004
Location: Crawley West Sussex
Posts: 2,315
Re: Obscure Rules in Oz
mmmmmmmmmmmmmm and getting back to the original thread
You aren't allowed to cross the road within so far of a crossing or junction or you get a fine
Kala
You aren't allowed to cross the road within so far of a crossing or junction or you get a fine
Kala
May 13th 2005, 2:00 pm
#97
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Location: Dreamland AKA Brisbane which is a different country to the UK
Posts: 6,911
Re: Obscure Rules in Oz
Originally Posted by kirsty&al
I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion! But to clarify: I don't believe there is a SPECIFIC law (in the terms of your previous posts) that makes it illegal to leave kids alone in a car in Australia? I believe people are prosecuted under a more general law (in a similar way to the UK), for example, “endangering the health of children under 12 by exposure”.
Trapped child to test new laws
GEESCHE JACOBSEN
Friday January 26 2001
A North Balgowlah, Sydney, man yesterday became the first person to be prosecuted under tough child protection guidelines for allegedly leaving a three-year-old child locked in a car.
A North Balgowlah, Sydney, man yesterday became the first person to be prosecuted under tough child protection guidelines for allegedly leaving a three-year-old child locked in a car.
Mr David Black, 43, who was alleged to have left a child inside a van for over an hour while he was at a business meeting, has been summoned to appear in court and faces a fine of up to $22,000.
The announcement came as the Department of Community Services launched an advertising campaign warning of the dangers of leaving children in cars.
The campaign, under the slogan "0-60 in 5 minutes", warns that the temperature in a car can reach 60C within five minutes.
Mr Black's case is just one of 10 cases on which DOCS is currently gathering evidence to consider legal proceedings.
The screaming girl was found by a passer-by in the back of the van in a car park in Bourke Street at 10.55am. She was freed when a resident smashed the van's window with a hammer. Mr Black allegedly reappeared at about 11.30am, saying he had been in the office.
The DOCS director-general, Ms Carmel Niland, said the department was serious about pursuing parents who ignored repeated public warnings about the dangers of leaving children in parked vehicles.
"Today's 'Parked cars kill kids' campaign is to raise awareness and educate parents; however, there will be occasions when prosecution is pursued," she said.
While DOCS has been told of 61 cases in the last financial year, the NRMA said it rescued about 1,300 children from cars - including some who had locked themselves in accidentally.
Police have dealt with four cases in the past few days alone. On Wednesday, Penrith police rescued three children, aged seven, two and one, from a car parked in direct sun for at least half an hour.
The Crown Solicitor's office laid information at Sydney's Downing Centre yesterday afternoon and Mr Black will facing proceedings under the Child and Young Persons (Care and Protection) Act for leaving a child in a motor vehicle without proper supervision where the child became, or was likely to become, emotionally distressed.
GEESCHE JACOBSEN
Friday January 26 2001
A North Balgowlah, Sydney, man yesterday became the first person to be prosecuted under tough child protection guidelines for allegedly leaving a three-year-old child locked in a car.
A North Balgowlah, Sydney, man yesterday became the first person to be prosecuted under tough child protection guidelines for allegedly leaving a three-year-old child locked in a car.
Mr David Black, 43, who was alleged to have left a child inside a van for over an hour while he was at a business meeting, has been summoned to appear in court and faces a fine of up to $22,000.
The announcement came as the Department of Community Services launched an advertising campaign warning of the dangers of leaving children in cars.
The campaign, under the slogan "0-60 in 5 minutes", warns that the temperature in a car can reach 60C within five minutes.
Mr Black's case is just one of 10 cases on which DOCS is currently gathering evidence to consider legal proceedings.
The screaming girl was found by a passer-by in the back of the van in a car park in Bourke Street at 10.55am. She was freed when a resident smashed the van's window with a hammer. Mr Black allegedly reappeared at about 11.30am, saying he had been in the office.
The DOCS director-general, Ms Carmel Niland, said the department was serious about pursuing parents who ignored repeated public warnings about the dangers of leaving children in parked vehicles.
"Today's 'Parked cars kill kids' campaign is to raise awareness and educate parents; however, there will be occasions when prosecution is pursued," she said.
While DOCS has been told of 61 cases in the last financial year, the NRMA said it rescued about 1,300 children from cars - including some who had locked themselves in accidentally.
Police have dealt with four cases in the past few days alone. On Wednesday, Penrith police rescued three children, aged seven, two and one, from a car parked in direct sun for at least half an hour.
The Crown Solicitor's office laid information at Sydney's Downing Centre yesterday afternoon and Mr Black will facing proceedings under the Child and Young Persons (Care and Protection) Act for leaving a child in a motor vehicle without proper supervision where the child became, or was likely to become, emotionally distressed.
May 13th 2005, 2:14 pm
#98
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,277
Re: Obscure Rules in Oz
Originally Posted by JackTheLad
So to begin with you were arguing that having a specific law against leaving kids in the car was a good thing. Now your arguing that there is no such law.
Thrashing around a bit Alistair?
I won't go in for the kill, I'm to nice of a guy for that.
Cheers,
JTL
Thrashing around a bit Alistair?
I won't go in for the kill, I'm to nice of a guy for that.
Cheers,
JTL
I haven’t been “arguing that having a specific law against leaving kids in the car was a good thing” and “Now your arguing that there is no such law”. Even if I had, there’s no inconsistency there. Are you a little sore about the thrashing about comment? I apologise – it was meant as a joke, because of your responses to MrsD – but I can see now that it cut deep. 
Anyway to be clear, I have:
- stated why leaving kids in a car, for a length of time, is dangerous, and that, some stupid people will do this.
- asked whether anyone has been caught for leaving their kids in the car while they return their trolley or pay the petrol station attendant, etc…
- asked whether there was a specific law.
- agreed that you had lost the plot and that you were thrashing around (by which I meant that you kept changing the basis of your argument).
- stated that playing pokies and drinking alcohol are not comparable to leaving kids in cars and drink driving.
- stated that there doesn’t seem to be a specific law for “leaving kids in cars”.
- asked you to show me the specific law (because I was apparently losing the plot for even thinking that the law may be a myth).
- clarified my position as you seem to making things up with regards to what I posted.
So, in summary. I didn’t begin by arguing that having a specific law was a good thing – you were the first to mention a specific law. And I have consistently questioned the existence of such a law from an early post.
I think you've already gone in for the kill, as you seem to be flogging a dead horse
Regards
Alistair
Last edited by kirsty&al; May 13th 2005 at 2:20 pm.
May 13th 2005, 2:53 pm
#99
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Joined: Nov 2001
Location: Mandurah, WA
Posts: 886
Re: Obscure Rules in Oz
I have to admit I'm guilty of leaving the kids in the car and it was very stupid, but we underestimated just how hot it gets in a car, when the weather isn't even hot. When we emigrated we bought no furniture with us, we wanted to start our new lives from scratch. After buying our new house, the next few days were spent traipsing from one shop to another comparing fridges/sofas/beds/you name it, we needed one. The kids weren't yet enrolled at school, so they had to come with us (too young to be left at home and anyway there was nothing to sit on and no telly to watch!). As you can imagine, these shopping expeditions were so boooooring for the kids, and it became quite stressful because they kept whining. There was one furniture store where we were able to park the car right outside the door, and as it was fairly mild that day (middle of winter) we told the kids they could stay in the car and read their books quietly. The temperature would have been less than 20 degrees outside. We had been in the store about 20 minutes when I decided to check that the kids were sitting quietly and not arguing. Just as well I did, because they were all sweating profusely and had taken their clothes off, they were so hot and gasping for breath, and the look on their faces was terrible. The car was brand new, with electric windows. The kids knew they couldn't open the windows, and they weren't sure if there was an alarm or not and thought if they opened a door they would set the alarm off and get into trouble. So they just waited and hoped we'd be back soon, although they were starting to panic. I felt really bad (I still do), I totally underestimated the situation.
The kids only ever get left in the car now if I'm in and out quick, like paying for petrol or returning the trolley. Any laws preventing such easy tragedies are necessary. And a new law which the government is trying to pass through at the moment - banning smoking in cars. Too many kids are choking inside the car when their parents light up, with or without a window open. Not sure how they're going to enforce that one though.
Another odd rule I've just remembered - pedestrians are not allowed to cross if the red man is on, you have to wait for the green man, even if nothing is coming!
The kids only ever get left in the car now if I'm in and out quick, like paying for petrol or returning the trolley. Any laws preventing such easy tragedies are necessary. And a new law which the government is trying to pass through at the moment - banning smoking in cars. Too many kids are choking inside the car when their parents light up, with or without a window open. Not sure how they're going to enforce that one though.
Another odd rule I've just remembered - pedestrians are not allowed to cross if the red man is on, you have to wait for the green man, even if nothing is coming!
May 13th 2005, 2:55 pm
#100
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: May 2004
Location: Birkdale QLD
Posts: 7,642
Re: Obscure Rules in Oz
Originally Posted by kirsty&al
I think you are clutching at straws now. In your last 2 responses you’ve starting to make things up I haven’t been “arguing that having a specific law against leaving kids in the car was a good thing” and “Now your arguing that there is no such law”. Even if I had, there’s no inconsistency there. Are you a little sore about the thrashing about comment? I apologise – it was meant as a joke, because of your responses to MrsD – but I can see now that it cut deep.
Anyway to be clear, I have:
- stated why leaving kids in a car, for a length of time, is dangerous, and that, some stupid people will do this.
- asked whether anyone has been caught for leaving their kids in the car while they return their trolley or pay the petrol station attendant, etc…
- asked whether there was a specific law.
- agreed that you had lost the plot and that you were thrashing around (by which I meant that you kept changing the basis of your argument).
- stated that playing pokies and drinking alcohol are not comparable to leaving kids in cars and drink driving.
- stated that there doesn’t seem to be a specific law for “leaving kids in cars”.
- asked you to show me the specific law (because I was apparently losing the plot for even thinking that the law may be a myth).
- clarified my position as you seem to making things up with regards to what I posted.
So, in summary. I didn’t begin by arguing that having a specific law was a good thing – you were the first to mention a specific law. And I have consistently questioned the existence of such a law from an early post.
I think you've already gone in for the kill, as you seem to be flogging a dead horse
Regards
Alistair
I haven’t been “arguing that having a specific law against leaving kids in the car was a good thing” and “Now your arguing that there is no such law”. Even if I had, there’s no inconsistency there. Are you a little sore about the thrashing about comment? I apologise – it was meant as a joke, because of your responses to MrsD – but I can see now that it cut deep. Anyway to be clear, I have:
- stated why leaving kids in a car, for a length of time, is dangerous, and that, some stupid people will do this.
- asked whether anyone has been caught for leaving their kids in the car while they return their trolley or pay the petrol station attendant, etc…
- asked whether there was a specific law.
- agreed that you had lost the plot and that you were thrashing around (by which I meant that you kept changing the basis of your argument).
- stated that playing pokies and drinking alcohol are not comparable to leaving kids in cars and drink driving.
- stated that there doesn’t seem to be a specific law for “leaving kids in cars”.
- asked you to show me the specific law (because I was apparently losing the plot for even thinking that the law may be a myth).
- clarified my position as you seem to making things up with regards to what I posted.
So, in summary. I didn’t begin by arguing that having a specific law was a good thing – you were the first to mention a specific law. And I have consistently questioned the existence of such a law from an early post.
I think you've already gone in for the kill, as you seem to be flogging a dead horse
Regards
Alistair
JTL
May 13th 2005, 3:03 pm
#101
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Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Keep true friends and puppets close, trust no-one else...
Posts: 93,810
Re: Obscure Rules in Oz
However many laws there are though, in almost every case the type of person who would abandon their child in the car in the heat (and I'm not talking about the trolley returning minutes, I'm talking long enough to harm the child) is probably the sort of parent who won't CARE if there is a law against it, and will do it anyway. So common sense should prevail, as there are plenty of cruelty/injury laws that could be invoked if a child does come to harm.
It really IS a case of the nanny state as the only people who take notice of the law are those who have common sense and care about their kids anyway.
(I think thats a voice of support for JTL?)
It really IS a case of the nanny state as the only people who take notice of the law are those who have common sense and care about their kids anyway.
(I think thats a voice of support for JTL?)
May 13th 2005, 3:05 pm
#102
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Joined: May 2004
Location: Birkdale QLD
Posts: 7,642
Re: Obscure Rules in Oz
Originally Posted by Pollyana
However many laws there are though, in almost every case the type of person who would abandon their child in the car in the heat (and I'm not talking about the trolley returning minutes, I'm talking long enough to harm the child) is probably the sort of parent who won't CARE if there is a law against it, and will do it anyway. So common sense should prevail, as there are plenty of cruelty/injury laws that could be invoked if a child does come to harm.
It really IS a case of the nanny state as the only people who take notice of the law are those who have common sense and care about their kids anyway.
(I think thats a voice of support for JTL?)
It really IS a case of the nanny state as the only people who take notice of the law are those who have common sense and care about their kids anyway.
(I think thats a voice of support for JTL?)
About time!!!!JTL
May 13th 2005, 3:09 pm
#103
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Location: Keep true friends and puppets close, trust no-one else...
Posts: 93,810
Re: Obscure Rules in Oz
Originally Posted by JackTheLad
Hello About time!!!!
JTL
About time!!!!JTL
Still, better late than never....
May 13th 2005, 3:16 pm
#104
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Joined: May 2004
Location: Birkdale QLD
Posts: 7,642
Re: Obscure Rules in Oz
Originally Posted by Pollyana
Sorry old chap! Takes me a while to get worked up enough to enter threads like this these days!!! Still, better late than never....
Still, better late than never.... (sorry thats a world war reference 
) It IS common sense, what is wrong with people thinking we need laws to say we have to do this/do that. Its common sense. Idiots will ignore the law anyway. Sensible people won't be stupid enough to do it.
So you really believe a law against leaving kids in cars stops idiots from leaving kids in cars?
Or on your new argument, is there such a law?
JTL
May 13th 2005, 3:20 pm
#105
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Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Melbourne - the worlds most livable city
Posts: 964
Re: Obscure Rules in Oz
Originally Posted by andrew63
You are NOT allowed to move your vehicle away from the petrol pump until you have paid! I did this once, pulled my car forward by about 3 metres to allow one of the guys in the queue behind me to get petrol while I paid. The guy in the shop told me off and expalined that I had broken the law!
Andrew
Andrew
