muppetking

There is a lot of chat on the forum about providing children with a 'better' lifestyle and education in Oz and NZ. A lot of this is written, from what I can see, by people with little evidence or first hand experience of either. Add to that the rather jaundiced, cynical and often inaccurate view of English education and it would seem that some people's moves are based on hope rather than truth. This is inevitable of course and we all hope for something better.
There are several Kiwis on this forum who are keen to join in the debate. One or two are accurate and fair and some are simply regurgitating what can be read in any tourist brochure.
One Kiwi claims he feels sorry for most Londoners because their childhood could never have been as happy/fulfilling/interesting as your average Kiwi. Rather patronising and I am pretty sure inaccurate but it feeds the myth. Note the assumption that London IS England. A very common view here.
The most up to date international survey has NZ ranked THIRD in the Western world for deaths by child abuse. I read that you are TWICE as likely to die a violent death as a child in NZ than England. This sits rather uncomfortably with the idea that NZ is a haven for children. Add to that the survey, carried out on an international scale, that 30% of NZ children are BELOW the poverty line and a less than healthy picture emerges. We can of course brush it under the carpet or blame Maori/Islanders but my experience tells me this is not always the case.
We take so much for granted in England, hot school dinners, books/resources provided by the school etc. Money dictates that YOU will be providing much of what you take for granted at the moment. After the age of 6 you will be paying for your child's health. We had to pay for our 10 month olds prescription for eye drops! Don't knock the NHS until you have to live without it.
Best of luck to you all.http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/thepres...7a6528,00.html

hamiltonnz

However it is true that the rate of child abuse and violence/crime in general amongst the pacific island/maori community far exceed that of the pakeha. Probably 70 to 80% of our jail population are from this group. Plus most of the abusing whether by white or brown is by either parents or close relatives of the kids involved. As it is anywhere you live, you have to be careful not to blindly trust your kids friends, their parents or aquaintances. Also be careful of the area you choose to live.

NZ is still a good place to live. We have 7 kids all of whom are still alive, no ones been beaten up or had any great problems and neither have any of their friends or our relations. as I say choose a decent area to live in and choose your friends.

Dee_e56

This posting has an interesting point. But speaking as a parent who once lived in the UK and who now live in Switzerland a country who believe that such problems as child abuse and poverty in there country do not excist. For most brits who choose to leave the UK most are in a fortunate position financially to be able to buy a home in our new choosen country without having to have a morgage, that for any person would be their biggest bonus. By working in your country and paying into the system hopefully this will improve such things as schooling etc. I have lived where crime is high, bad schooling along with high levels of bullying etc. you pay for school meals if your lucky enough that the school provides such a service. Our NHS system hardly excists, you may need to wait a week+ to see you GP and a hospital apt well not even the dieing are a high priority. I have many friends who live in OZ and NZ who have moved into europe to earn the money so that they two can go back to there home countries to buy there own place and improve there lifestyles, the only difference is that we choose to stay in our new choosen countries and not go back as we see there is nothing to go back to, I live in a place where the wages are high etc but the price you pay is long hard hours and no family quality time. Maybe we do see the grass is greener on the other side, but will never know unless we try. WHAT DO WE HAVE TO LOOSE

Dee

Sarah2004

I look at this with much cynicism as a young NZer now living in the UK however if what you state is true taking into account the 99% of child abuse occurs in the home how exactly would these stats make NZ a better or worse place for the children of new emigrants presuming that abuse does not currently occur within the childs family?

What are the statistics on random child abuse, and how about some stats on abductions, teenage pregnancy, sexually transmitted diseases etc, please let everyone know of you're obviously very unfortunate experience with your kids in NZ. If I for a minute think that kids in NZ are worse off than the scumbags I see hanging around smoking dope, sleeping around and swearing in the parks I think I will give up now and go and live on a boat on my own - Stop the world I want to get off!

By the way have you tried to get a doctors appointment in recent years, 2 weeks wait mate! I'd pay a tenner any day just in case that rash is something serious

rickandkara

I don't post very often, but felt like replying to this post.

Take 4 children
Child 1: UK, from a privilege background, goes to a private school
Child 2: UK, living below the poverty line, goes to a school with a bad reputation.
Child 1: NZ, from a privilege background, goes to a private school, non-Maori
Child 2: NZ, living below the poverty line, goes to a school with a bad reputation, Maori.
All the children leave the education system with qualifications of the same standard 'Who got the better education?'

We can all speculate which ones but there will never be a definite answer.
No matter what country you live in the meaning of a 'good education' will have so many different influencing factors that it would be impossible define.

And as for the stats on child abuse
What is the ratio of un-reported abuse in both countries?
Is it that NZ have more care workers and catch more abusers?
Has the UK got a better culture where children are concerned?
Stats are good grounding when doing research but you need to be careful when comparing 2 different populations. E.g. the UK and NZ there will be differing government policies, different cultures and different statisticians reporting the results.
Although the NZ stats say there is higher child abuse I don't think moving to another country will change how I treat my children.

lynnj

i am not going to NZ but OZ so i probably shouldnt be sticking my nose in here but i just thought i would set a few things straight. School Dinners are not provided for al children, we live in northants and they are not available its packed lunches for all and the school doesnt even have somewhere for them to eat it, its a 5 min trek round the corner to the village hall. The NHS well sure its great depending on your expectations, where you live and what ails you, I'm pregnant and apalled that at 35 therefore classed as high risk i will have had 1 appointment with a midwife by the time we leave when i will be 28 weeks pregnant, i have had to pay for any tests i want done other than the basic, when i was last pregnant in a different area, midwife appointments were every 2 weeks, so blood pressure could be checked and your progress monitored, here i called my midwife re a problem i had and it took her 3 days to return my call, luckily it wasnt something that was life threatening to me or my baby, I'm obviously aprehensive about giving birth so soon after arriving in a new country but from the people i have spoken to who have experienced it in both countries i think i'm doing the right thing. You cant judge a country or its services unless you are living there at the time, things change very quickly and what someone remembers from 5 years ago may be drastically different from the present day, so get on with living.

Lynn:lecture:

muppetking

OK, I'll take the bait. You want stats about teenage pregnancy? NZ ranks in the top 3 in the 'developed world' for that! STD's? Funnily enough NZ is also in the top 3! Skin diseases? NZ has almost the worst record yet again! As for the "scumbags" you see.......I can't wait till you come back to NZ. LOL. High Schools in the North Island are introducing drugs testing for its pupils such is the scale of the problem. Swearing? Well that appears to be compulsory in NZ, from the adverts on tv to EVERY radio programme I ever listen to. I'm sorry if my post upset you but get your facts straight before replying. Lastly, I don't remember mentioning the UK, I was simply pointing out to would be British migrants what they might expect to find. I certainly wasn't addressing Kiwis who live in London and moan, moan, moan but just love earning pounds.

dotty

Take any country, anywhere, each and every one is going to produce its share of murderers, Theives, Con artists, Pedophiles, parents who abuse their kids etc etc

Take any government, all will have areas where they are great at spending, others where its sadly lacking.

Unless you are coming from as an impoverished refugee the plain fact is most countries you are going to are going to have the same problems as where you come from.

This forum definately has a type of person who finds this difficult to believe, I could not even estimate the times I have read, I am leaving this blah blah of a country because XYZ happened. XYZ is 99% of the time alive and well in the new country, the person is talking about.

Follow most posters on here as they plan, then arrive then finally settle into a day to day life, most posts fall into a very predictable pattern of idealism to holiday to reality and sometimes to disenchantment. Interestingly you rarely read such idealism on the Canada/USA boards, closer perhaps? testimony to the distance indeed.

bondipom

Whenever I read those boards I read "another reason to leave the UK" when they are going has similiar problems.

As far as abuse stats go it is very hard to compare. Each country has different ways of uncovering abuse and different methods of enforcement.

St George Six

Hi,
If you look hard enough you will find bad things anywhere. I suggest moving from Christchurch back to Brixton in London, I think in a couple of days you would realise what you have. We now have daily shootings in the UK and gun crime is growing rapidly, the next major terrorist strike as the Met Commisioner has said is due at any moment and will happen. I think suicide bombers in Christchurch is a long way off at the moment. I don't think you could find a much safer country in the current climate.
Chill out and enjoy life.

Cheers Kev.

Sarah2004

Yeah, take a chill pill. Leave if you don't like it, go make your life in paradise whereever that may be. Boom boom!

barkingtoad

There is no such place as a safe place to live. There are plusses and minuses in every country.

I remember reading an article way back in 1982, which has stuck in my mind, about a Canadian chap who could'nt handle the pressures of everyday life and the constant threat of nuclear holocast etc. etc. so he did a great deal of research into finding the safest place on earth.

He decided that his eutopia was the Falkland Islands. So he sold up and emigrated to Port Stanley.

One week after he got there the Argies invaded!!!!!

doctor scrumpy

And the male children have to catch their own sheep with which to lose their virginity too !

muppetking

Leave we undoubtedly will. Still, you obviously don't like what you see so why not take your own advice too? I am a very chilled out person generally but writing banal, chin up posts is for those who need reassurance and I don't. As regards paradise, it don't exist, here, there or anywhere. The urge to destroy is a creative one my fine feathered and flightless friend so I will continue to post whatever is on my mind. If you don't like it you know what you can do!