Newcastle NSW
Apr 15th 2019, 11:32 pm
#46
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Newcastle NSW
I'm talking about Tax...breaks...
You are essentially punished here for having children until recently childcare was hugely expensive, and getting married carries zero benefit, and so on. The UK has more tax breaks for the very rich and lower average. As I say, more strata and more ways to find which one you are most comfortable in (kind of).
I do agree its somewhat nonsensical to compare a county to a country. However I disagree that there is a great difference between housing in any Australian city, outside of the very upper margins (nobody here was comparing London to Sydney, or saying housing is reasonable in either country), so much that any could be considered "fair value". Rent has less of a stigma attached to it in the UK, I can be middle aspiration class and rent and feel guilt free in the UK. Here, I am looked down upon (yes I am, admit it).
You are essentially punished here for having children until recently childcare was hugely expensive, and getting married carries zero benefit, and so on. The UK has more tax breaks for the very rich and lower average. As I say, more strata and more ways to find which one you are most comfortable in (kind of).
I do agree its somewhat nonsensical to compare a county to a country. However I disagree that there is a great difference between housing in any Australian city, outside of the very upper margins (nobody here was comparing London to Sydney, or saying housing is reasonable in either country), so much that any could be considered "fair value". Rent has less of a stigma attached to it in the UK, I can be middle aspiration class and rent and feel guilt free in the UK. Here, I am looked down upon (yes I am, admit it).
In Australia you don't have to be married to get a break. You just have to co-habitate. Marriage isn't for many so it's a fairer system.
Renting is fantastic and has so many positives, especially in Australia where negative gearing pays a chunk of the rent for you. I own (more of a long term investment choice) but I would have no problem in renting again.
Apr 16th 2019, 5:35 am
#47
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,994
Re: Newcastle NSW
well thats an interesting approach, toilet come living room conversation next door to a bogan, what constitutes a bogan i cant work it out?
on the estate im on wihch is actually jewells i seem to be surrounded by working people havent seen a quad bike but plenty of boats on trailers. the houses are well looked after and relatively expensive. they are roughly the same price as the area i come from in the north cotswolds and there are plenty of people who cant afford to buy and live on the bread line renting. as for the conversation i cant comment iv met very few people so far.
Britain is expensive as well most people are struggling there so that's just a first world thing in terms of expense. i know people who both work and have grandparents look after children for child care and still use food banks. that is a sad thing in a wealthy country.
we did in fact want to be in valentine but couldn't get a rent with the time frames involved so ended up here while we find our feet. im not sure what your used to in terms of lifestyle but from the way you speak you seem well off and upper end of the earning scale. either that or slightly bitter. so maybe your used to being around very wealthy people rather than what in britain we would call hard working honest families.
why should you have a tax break for being married it doesn't help a relationship and penalises couples who dont wish to be married.
you did say that wages are low here so as i haven't started work yet i can only hope to find something reasonably well paid and the same goes for the wife. if some of these areas you've spoken about you consider rough then i can honestly say you've never lived in a rough area. although iv only been here a week so hoping the poor picture you paint isnt true lol.
on the estate im on wihch is actually jewells i seem to be surrounded by working people havent seen a quad bike but plenty of boats on trailers. the houses are well looked after and relatively expensive. they are roughly the same price as the area i come from in the north cotswolds and there are plenty of people who cant afford to buy and live on the bread line renting. as for the conversation i cant comment iv met very few people so far.
Britain is expensive as well most people are struggling there so that's just a first world thing in terms of expense. i know people who both work and have grandparents look after children for child care and still use food banks. that is a sad thing in a wealthy country.
we did in fact want to be in valentine but couldn't get a rent with the time frames involved so ended up here while we find our feet. im not sure what your used to in terms of lifestyle but from the way you speak you seem well off and upper end of the earning scale. either that or slightly bitter. so maybe your used to being around very wealthy people rather than what in britain we would call hard working honest families.
why should you have a tax break for being married it doesn't help a relationship and penalises couples who dont wish to be married.
you did say that wages are low here so as i haven't started work yet i can only hope to find something reasonably well paid and the same goes for the wife. if some of these areas you've spoken about you consider rough then i can honestly say you've never lived in a rough area. although iv only been here a week so hoping the poor picture you paint isnt true lol.
Apr 16th 2019, 5:37 am
#48
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,994
Re: Newcastle NSW
Apr 16th 2019, 7:43 am
#49
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Newcastle NSW
Yep. I have only lived in Sydney and London (oh and Canada for a year) so my concept of cheap housing is non existent. I only have ever known housing to be what it is therefore I don't find housing expensive either. It is what it is.
Apr 16th 2019, 10:14 am
#50
Proudly Deplorable
Joined: May 2003
Location: Alloha snack bar
Posts: 24,246
Re: Newcastle NSW
I'm talking about how UK lifestyle is more setup to cater to different economic levels. Australia kind of just assumes one level. The tax, retail, housing all reflect this. UK there are benefits and equalisers for worse off households, not so much here.
I agree that numbers cannot alone tell the full story. What you are describing is pretty much what I'm talking about. Australia works out to be incredibly expensive if you are not established (or on holiday).
I agree that numbers cannot alone tell the full story. What you are describing is pretty much what I'm talking about. Australia works out to be incredibly expensive if you are not established (or on holiday).
The UK is a nice place (although I currently have no great desire to live there) but it is hopelessly class-ridden, with a massive underclass and a non-existent working class. The UK economy is skewed towards this reality
You don't like Australia. I get that, it's not for everyone, but stop looking for scapegoats and non-existent targets in order to somehow justify your dislike. Just get yourself somewhere that you do like. Easy as
Apr 16th 2019, 11:35 am
#51
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 297
Re: Newcastle NSW
Wages are good here, they have to be! I do admit its not that easy to judge as circumstances change outlook. From my point of view, I went from higher income, my wife and I working living in a flat, moved here now have children, so live in a larger more expensive house and are single income. A year ago we could not afford childcare, though its much better now its not worth my wife returning to work. We are statistically in the lower end income household and are not eligible for any tax breaks at all, even in the UK I could get something! I mean, we manage but the system really seems to be designed for dual incomes and little consideration for stay at home parents.
Apr 16th 2019, 12:05 pm
#52
Proudly Deplorable
Joined: May 2003
Location: Alloha snack bar
Posts: 24,246
Re: Newcastle NSW
Australia is not backwards - unless you have an agenda
New Zealand is backwards - it's like a quieter version of rural UK with better weather - and more rednecks. It is expensive though
New Zealand is backwards - it's like a quieter version of rural UK with better weather - and more rednecks. It is expensive though
Last edited by Amazulu; Apr 16th 2019 at 12:09 pm.
Apr 16th 2019, 12:08 pm
#53
Proudly Deplorable
Joined: May 2003
Location: Alloha snack bar
Posts: 24,246
Re: Newcastle NSW
I've heard terrible stories about NZ. Have no desire to live, people tell me its even a more expensive and backwards place than Australia.
Wages are good here, they have to be! I do admit its not that easy to judge as circumstances change outlook. From my point of view, I went from higher income, my wife and I working living in a flat, moved here now have children, so live in a larger more expensive house and are single income. A year ago we could not afford childcare, though its much better now its not worth my wife returning to work. We are statistically in the lower end income household and are not eligible for any tax breaks at all, even in the UK I could get something! I mean, we manage but the system really seems to be designed for dual incomes and little consideration for stay at home parents.
Wages are good here, they have to be! I do admit its not that easy to judge as circumstances change outlook. From my point of view, I went from higher income, my wife and I working living in a flat, moved here now have children, so live in a larger more expensive house and are single income. A year ago we could not afford childcare, though its much better now its not worth my wife returning to work. We are statistically in the lower end income household and are not eligible for any tax breaks at all, even in the UK I could get something! I mean, we manage but the system really seems to be designed for dual incomes and little consideration for stay at home parents.
Apr 16th 2019, 12:22 pm
#54
Aussie Finn Mixture!
Joined: May 2005
Location: Leschenault WA (after few locations around WA and Around Europe!)
Posts: 1,151
Re: Newcastle NSW
I've heard terrible stories about NZ. Have no desire to live, people tell me its even a more expensive and backwards place than Australia.
Wages are good here, they have to be! I do admit its not that easy to judge as circumstances change outlook. From my point of view, I went from higher income, my wife and I working living in a flat, moved here now have children, so live in a larger more expensive house and are single income. A year ago we could not afford childcare, though its much better now its not worth my wife returning to work. We are statistically in the lower end income household and are not eligible for any tax breaks at all, even in the UK I could get something! I mean, we manage but the system really seems to be designed for dual incomes and little consideration for stay at home parents.
Wages are good here, they have to be! I do admit its not that easy to judge as circumstances change outlook. From my point of view, I went from higher income, my wife and I working living in a flat, moved here now have children, so live in a larger more expensive house and are single income. A year ago we could not afford childcare, though its much better now its not worth my wife returning to work. We are statistically in the lower end income household and are not eligible for any tax breaks at all, even in the UK I could get something! I mean, we manage but the system really seems to be designed for dual incomes and little consideration for stay at home parents.
just to justify my post, it may have been cheaper 20yrs ago but hubby earned grand total of $27k a year, I got $23.10 fortnight from Centrelink, we had one car, no childcare rebate, baby bonuses, NADA. yet we survived. How? By doing what wise people did. Grew a veggie garden, baked our own bread, cooked our own snacks, made work lunch from scratch. Such is life.
Apr 16th 2019, 1:05 pm
#55
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Newcastle NSW
I've heard terrible stories about NZ. Have no desire to live, people tell me its even a more expensive and backwards place than Australia.
Wages are good here, they have to be! I do admit its not that easy to judge as circumstances change outlook. From my point of view, I went from higher income, my wife and I working living in a flat, moved here now have children, so live in a larger more expensive house and are single income. A year ago we could not afford childcare, though its much better now its not worth my wife returning to work. We are statistically in the lower end income household and are not eligible for any tax breaks at all, even in the UK I could get something! I mean, we manage but the system really seems to be designed for dual incomes and little consideration for stay at home parents.
Wages are good here, they have to be! I do admit its not that easy to judge as circumstances change outlook. From my point of view, I went from higher income, my wife and I working living in a flat, moved here now have children, so live in a larger more expensive house and are single income. A year ago we could not afford childcare, though its much better now its not worth my wife returning to work. We are statistically in the lower end income household and are not eligible for any tax breaks at all, even in the UK I could get something! I mean, we manage but the system really seems to be designed for dual incomes and little consideration for stay at home parents.
Last edited by Beoz; Apr 16th 2019 at 1:08 pm.
Apr 16th 2019, 10:14 pm
#56
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 297
Re: Newcastle NSW
actually you’re totally wrong, the system is geared up to keep the other parent home. You’ll get more if mother stays at home rather than goes to work, pays petrol, childcare, after school/before school, if you have two or more kids. This only applies if you’re not high income earner.
Apr 16th 2019, 10:22 pm
#57
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 297
Re: Newcastle NSW
Are you not entitled to child care subsidies through you visa type or something? If this is not the case then the only family type who don't get any are those on +350k. Its means tested so those earning the most (and contributing the most) get the least subsidies. An unfair system which does not promote those women contributing the most to tax to return to work but sometimes we need to please those who thrive on class warfare.
Which is less to two people working at $30-35k, who would be entitled to benefits. Its wierd. And definately promotes dual income family lifestyle.
Now we can survive on that, but I question the message that sends out to Australia "family" values.
Last edited by rabble_rouser; Apr 16th 2019 at 10:25 pm.
Apr 16th 2019, 10:32 pm
#58
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Newcastle NSW
As far as I understand from centrelink the upper bound of means tested stops completely around $80k per household.
Which is less to two people working at $30-35k, who would be entitled to benefits. Its wierd. And definately promotes dual income family lifestyle.
Now we can survive on that, but I question the message that sends out to Australia "family" values.
Which is less to two people working at $30-35k, who would be entitled to benefits. Its wierd. And definately promotes dual income family lifestyle.
Now we can survive on that, but I question the message that sends out to Australia "family" values.
https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-...50?pfmredir=sm
With 2 people working on 35k you will get back closer to 85% of childcare fees.
Apr 16th 2019, 10:37 pm
#59
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: Newcastle NSW
That's an odd way of looking at it, I think the current system is just backwards and everyone so far I've met here with families agrees with me, and I know people in similar circumstances. It isn't really worth my wife returning to work as almost all extra money would be sunk into childcare, etc. If we were both a little over minimum wages and working together we would be better off financially, so we are penalised for having children essentially. I guess the government figures its cheaper to pump up the population through 3rd world immigration instead of native repopulation. It may have been different years ago but thats not family orientated at all. Yes, culturally its very family oriented but governments seem quite spiteful of families.
Tony Abbott tried to promote a scheme to incentivise women returning to work when he was PM, but it was poorly explained as usual and he was beat up over favouring the wealthy which is the usual default of class warfare.
It's only in hindsight that people realise the benefit to all this would have brought. That's typical of Australia and essentially what you are crying out for.
Apr 17th 2019, 12:06 am
#60
Proudly Deplorable
Joined: May 2003
Location: Alloha snack bar
Posts: 24,246
Re: Newcastle NSW
Riddle me this Batman - if Australia's immigration policy is based around 3rd world (AKA poor people who can't afford shit and therefore rely on welfare) migration, how come house prices in the major migration hubs of Sydney and Melbourne have been rising (although now falling to a degree) for many years, giving these cities some of the highest property prices in the World?
Last edited by Amazulu; Apr 17th 2019 at 1:55 am.