Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Australia
Reload this Page >

the new immigration system & Multiculturalism

the new immigration system & Multiculturalism

Old Jul 28th 2012, 2:40 pm
  #1  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 45
asmgx is an unknown quantity at this point
Default the new immigration system & Multiculturalism

hi
by looking at the new immigration system. ( the ranking system )

i think this system will be to the benefit of UK migrants as they can simply get 20 pts for english. while other people with Competent English will get 0 pts.

so a fresh grad from UK will get more points that a highly qualifies non-native english language speaker.

i think new immigration system points should be reviewed.
asmgx is offline  
Old Jul 28th 2012, 2:59 pm
  #2  
Prisoner of Her Majesty
 
Pollyana's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Keep true friends and puppets close, trust no-one else...
Posts: 92,797
Pollyana has a reputation beyond reputePollyana has a reputation beyond reputePollyana has a reputation beyond reputePollyana has a reputation beyond reputePollyana has a reputation beyond reputePollyana has a reputation beyond reputePollyana has a reputation beyond reputePollyana has a reputation beyond reputePollyana has a reputation beyond reputePollyana has a reputation beyond reputePollyana has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: the new immigration system & Multiculturalism

Originally Posted by asmgx View Post
hi
by looking at the new immigration system. ( the ranking system )

i think this system will be to the benefit of UK migrants as they can simply get 20 pts for english. while other people with Competent English will get 0 pts.

so a fresh grad from UK will get more points that a highly qualifies non-native english language speaker.

i think new immigration system points should be reviewed.
What's that got to do with multiculturalism?
Pollyana is offline  
Old Jul 28th 2012, 3:12 pm
  #3  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Bermudashorts's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 14,284
Bermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: the new immigration system & Multiculturalism

Originally Posted by asmgx View Post
i think new immigration system points should be reviewed.
It has been reviewed, it was reviewed before it was introduced. Australia wants new migrants that can speak the national language well, otherwise they end up not being able to find work in their field and end up doing menial work that local unskilled workers could do anyway.
Bermudashorts is offline  
Old Jul 28th 2012, 3:44 pm
  #4  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 45
asmgx is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: the new immigration system & Multiculturalism

Originally Posted by Bermudashorts View Post
It has been reviewed, it was reviewed before it was introduced. Australia wants new migrants that can speak the national language well, otherwise they end up not being able to find work in their field and end up doing menial work that local unskilled workers could do anyway.
you are right, but i am sure Proficient or Competent English can fit in the australian community an can find work too. unless the job they are looking for is in TV or jobs that really need Superior English.

you can see state nomination gives applicant 5 pts, and phd gives 5 pts extra than bcs. why english language has such gaps between each level Competent, Proficient, and Superior?

it simply will target native english speakers more that target highly qualified people.
asmgx is offline  
Old Jul 28th 2012, 3:53 pm
  #5  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Bermudashorts's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 14,284
Bermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: the new immigration system & Multiculturalism

Originally Posted by asmgx View Post
you are right, but i am sure Proficient or Competent English can fit in the australian community an can find work too. unless the job they are looking for is in TV or jobs that really need Superior English.

you can see state nomination gives applicant 5 pts, and phd gives 5 pts extra than bcs. why english language has such gaps between each level Competent, Proficient, and Superior?

it simply will target native english speakers more that target highly qualified people.
Not much point being highly qualified if unable to communicate properly in the English language. And if you think only TV presenters need to speak / read / write good English you are very mistaken. I absolutely insist upon it with my team of accountants.
Bermudashorts is offline  
Old Jul 28th 2012, 4:19 pm
  #6  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 45
asmgx is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: the new immigration system & Multiculturalism

Originally Posted by Bermudashorts View Post
Not much point being highly qualified if unable to communicate properly in the English language. And if you think only TV presenters need to speak / read / write good English you are very mistaken. I absolutely insist upon it with my team of accountants.
then definitely you are looking for native english speaking ppl, and no chance for new immigrant ppl to join your team if what you are looking for people with Superior english.
and i am sure not all native english speakers can get 8 in all 4 ielts subjects.

in every work enviroment in australia you find ppl from all over the world. with different accents and different english language abilities, and they all can communicate. i dont think a company would hire any one who does not speak english very well. but if they insist on hiring ppl with "Superior english" then i dont think you would see ppl from different countries.

i am not saying they should remove the english language test in the immigration, what i am saying is that they should review it and maybe applicants can get more points on qualifications or reduce the points of the language.

assume some one gets 9 listening, 9 reading, 9 conversation, and 6.5 writing
and some one else gets 7 listening, 7 reading, 7 conversation, and 7 writing

the first will get 0 pts and the 2nd will get 10 pts. which can make big difference in the ranking.
asmgx is offline  
Old Jul 28th 2012, 4:52 pm
  #7  
Just Joined
 
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3
makai is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: the new immigration system & Multiculturalism

Originally Posted by asmgx View Post
hi
by looking at the new immigration system. ( the ranking system )

i think this system will be to the benefit of UK migrants as they can simply get 20 pts for english. while other people with Competent English will get 0 pts.

so a fresh grad from UK will get more points that a highly qualifies non-native english language speaker.

i think new immigration system points should be reviewed.
If anything the new system is discriminating highly qualified people from Europe who are not living in English speaking countries.

Just have a look at Asia for example: Education in a lot of countries there, such as the Philippines, Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, India etc., is mostly in English. Hence immigrants from these countries are at an advantage when it comes to the IELTS test.

That said, I think Australia needs to consider whether they could use a couple of smart people who are native speakers in major European languages other than English. After all, the EU is Australia's second largest trading partner after China.

But who am I to complain - I'm a native German and French speaker, and I'm quite confident that I will be able to do well on the IELTS test. It's all a question of determination!

Last edited by makai; Jul 28th 2012 at 4:55 pm.
makai is offline  
Old Jul 28th 2012, 6:50 pm
  #8  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Bermudashorts's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 14,284
Bermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: the new immigration system & Multiculturalism

Originally Posted by asmgx View Post
then definitely you are looking for native english speaking ppl, and no chance for new immigrant ppl to join your team if what you are looking for people with Superior english.
and i am sure not all native english speakers can get 8 in all 4 ielts subjects.

in every work enviroment in australia you find ppl from all over the world. with different accents and different english language abilities, and they all can communicate. i dont think a company would hire any one who does not speak english very well. but if they insist on hiring ppl with "Superior english" then i dont think you would see ppl from different countries.

i am not saying they should remove the english language test in the immigration, what i am saying is that they should review it and maybe applicants can get more points on qualifications or reduce the points of the language.

assume some one gets 9 listening, 9 reading, 9 conversation, and 6.5 writing
and some one else gets 7 listening, 7 reading, 7 conversation, and 7 writing

the first will get 0 pts and the 2nd will get 10 pts. which can make big difference in the ranking.
Of the ~ 30 people that report to me now or in the past, there are 7 that are native English speakers (being from UK, Australia and South Africa). The rest of my team are from: India, China, Sri Lanka and the Philippines. And I insist upon good English at all times, it is perfectly possible to find this. I don't ask to see IELTS tests of course, but I want to see a well written CV and in interview I expect fluent spoken English.

Regarding the points test, again DIAC already have reviewed it, the test is quite new after all. They want good English speakers, I want my team to be qualified but I am not impressed by endless qualifications coming out of the ears, I want somebody who can communicate effectively. If you chose to ignore this advice then that is up to you.

Last edited by Bermudashorts; Jul 28th 2012 at 6:53 pm.
Bermudashorts is offline  
Old Jul 29th 2012, 12:37 am
  #9  
Banned
 
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,300
Zen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: the new immigration system & Multiculturalism

Originally Posted by asmgx View Post
hi
by looking at the new immigration system. ( the ranking system )

i think this system will be to the benefit of UK migrants as they can simply get 20 pts for english. while other people with Competent English will get 0 pts.

so a fresh grad from UK will get more points that a highly qualifies non-native english language speaker.

i think new immigration system points should be reviewed.
In some respects, I think you're in to something, but it's got nothing to do with race, if that is what you're getting at. Long gone are the days of the Australian Immigration Restriction Act, and all this does is demand high quality English. Anyone can aspire to that, from any background. I am an English-speaking native and can speak several other languages to various degrees of competence. If I had to learn Arabic to get in somewhere I wouldn't take it as a personal racial insult - I would get learning!
Zen10 is offline  
Old Jul 29th 2012, 12:40 am
  #10  
Banned
 
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,300
Zen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: the new immigration system & Multiculturalism

Originally Posted by makai View Post
If anything the new system is discriminating highly qualified people from Europe who are not living in English speaking countries.

Just have a look at Asia for example: Education in a lot of countries there, such as the Philippines, Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, India etc., is mostly in English. Hence immigrants from these countries are at an advantage when it comes to the IELTS test.

That said, I think Australia needs to consider whether they could use a couple of smart people who are native speakers in major European languages other than English. After all, the EU is Australia's second largest trading partner after China.

But who am I to complain - I'm a native German and French speaker, and I'm quite confident that I will be able to do well on the IELTS test. It's all a question of determination!
The kind of highly qualified European being sought will be able to pass the IELTS. Definitely in the case of Germans and Scandinavians and almost certainly in the case of romance-speaking countries. And all they have to do is polish their English, anyway.
Zen10 is offline  
Old Jul 29th 2012, 3:29 am
  #11  
And YOU'RE paying for it!
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: kipper tie?
Posts: 2,328
lapin_windstar has a reputation beyond reputelapin_windstar has a reputation beyond reputelapin_windstar has a reputation beyond reputelapin_windstar has a reputation beyond reputelapin_windstar has a reputation beyond reputelapin_windstar has a reputation beyond reputelapin_windstar has a reputation beyond reputelapin_windstar has a reputation beyond reputelapin_windstar has a reputation beyond reputelapin_windstar has a reputation beyond reputelapin_windstar has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: the new immigration system & Multiculturalism

Originally Posted by Zen10 View Post
The kind of highly qualified European being sought will be able to pass the IELTS.
Think you're making the OP's point, there...
lapin_windstar is offline  
Old Jul 29th 2012, 3:31 am
  #12  
Banned
 
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,300
Zen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond reputeZen10 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: the new immigration system & Multiculturalism

Originally Posted by lapin_windstar View Post
Think you're making the OP's point, there...
I'm not sure what his point is, to be honest.
Zen10 is offline  
Old Jul 29th 2012, 3:45 am
  #13  
Crazy Cat Lady
 
moneypenny20's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 65,019
moneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: the new immigration system & Multiculturalism

Every country, when dealing with migrant applications, will want superior language skills relevant to that country. It's not Australia's fault if other countries don't have English as their main language. No point in accepting other nationals who cannot speak/write/understand English. That's not going to help multiculturalism, it's going to do the opposite. It's down to each applicant to ensure they are able to reach the levels required. If they don't then they should expect and accept a grant refusal imo.
moneypenny20 is offline  
Old Jul 29th 2012, 4:24 am
  #14  
MODERATOR
 
old.sparkles's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: slough - Adelaide
Posts: 27,332
old.sparkles has a reputation beyond reputeold.sparkles has a reputation beyond reputeold.sparkles has a reputation beyond reputeold.sparkles has a reputation beyond reputeold.sparkles has a reputation beyond reputeold.sparkles has a reputation beyond reputeold.sparkles has a reputation beyond reputeold.sparkles has a reputation beyond reputeold.sparkles has a reputation beyond reputeold.sparkles has a reputation beyond reputeold.sparkles has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: the new immigration system & Multiculturalism

Originally Posted by asmgx View Post
you are right, but i am sure Proficient or Competent English can fit in the australian community an can find work too. unless the job they are looking for is in TV or jobs that really need Superior English.

you can see state nomination gives applicant 5 pts, and phd gives 5 pts extra than bcs. why english language has such gaps between each level Competent, Proficient, and Superior?

it simply will target native english speakers more that target highly qualified people.
From a UK prospective, I wish we had more stringent rules with regards to English ability. Working with people who cannot easily follow what is being said is frustrating to both, speaking from experience. And if you cannot integrate easily because your language ability is lower, than you end up with large areas where the native language is not the first language. And even people who have lived in the Uk for many years do not improve their language ability because they remain in these areas speaking their natural language.

So a Phd taken in Indian, or Polish, or chinese may mean that you understand the theory but if you can't relate that because you cant communicate effectively then it is almost worthless, which is the point many are making.

And is it really too much to ask, that if you want to live in an English speaking country, you learn to speak English effectively.
old.sparkles is offline  
Old Jul 29th 2012, 8:01 am
  #15  
BE Forum Addict
 
NedKelly's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,584
NedKelly has a reputation beyond reputeNedKelly has a reputation beyond reputeNedKelly has a reputation beyond reputeNedKelly has a reputation beyond reputeNedKelly has a reputation beyond reputeNedKelly has a reputation beyond reputeNedKelly has a reputation beyond reputeNedKelly has a reputation beyond reputeNedKelly has a reputation beyond reputeNedKelly has a reputation beyond reputeNedKelly has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: the new immigration system & Multiculturalism

Originally Posted by asmgx View Post
you are right, but i am sure Proficient or Competent English can fit in the australian community an can find work too. unless the job they are looking for is in TV or jobs that really need Superior English.

you can see state nomination gives applicant 5 pts, and phd gives 5 pts extra than bcs. why english language has such gaps between each level Competent, Proficient, and Superior?

it simply will target native english speakers more that target highly qualified people.
You are right, but I am sure proficient or competent English speakers can fit into the Australian community and can find work too. unless the job they are looking for is on TV or jobs that really need good English.

You can see that state nomination gives an applicant 5 pts, and a phd gives 5 pts more than bcs. Why does English language have such gaps between each level: Competent, Proficient, and Superior?

It will simply target native English speakers rather than target highly qualified people.
NedKelly is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.