La Vida loca

Maybe come on a boat from Indonesia, could be a cheaper option.

Craig Vaughan

Excellent! Thanks, i can see this issue has been well canvassed!

NickyC

Didn't your wife's employer pay the costs involved in getting her 457 visa?
And surely providing documentation that you're qualified to the level you say you are is reasonable? Would you prefer that Australia just takes the word of anyone who decides they want to migrate?

And it's ludicrous to say you get no benefits from paying taxes. You get clean water, a police service, a fire service, hospitals, health systems, schools, libraries, roads and rail systems - all those zillions of things that taxes pay for.

What you don't get is cash handouts from the government. I get no cash handouts from the government and I've been a citizen for 25 years.

Didn't you know what the rules were regarding cash handouts for temp visa holders before you came?

Craig Vaughan

yeah - i dont know. I think if the govt was serious about this as opposed to just trying to "look good", they would look at limiting the outsourcing of jobs overseas. I am not advocating that they should - i am merely suggesting that if that is their policy objective, and they were serious about protecting Australia's workforce - that would seem like a better way of going about this.

it obviously is a "free country" subject to the laws of the land, and legislating in this area to prevent offshoring of labour would not be a difficult exercise. I believe there are a few Heads of Power this could fall under and the test could be the same they have introduced for 457 visa holders in that have they tried to source employment locally.

I guess i dont have the full facts, because i dont know how many jobs are outsourced overseas. I just know that it seems like everytime i call a bank or telco, im not speaking to someone in Australia. If we were going to clamp down on anything here I would prefer to see that clamped down on before anything else.

Anyway, i can see this issue has been well canvassed in this thread before i had my 2 cents worth.

rld1177

I've been in Melbourne on a 457 since March 2013 and it is interesting to see how 457's touch a nerve. When you look deeper though, there really are three themes regarding overseas labour and the impact:

1) 457's in positions that most would not view as 'highly skilled' but which are (or were) on a shortage list. I know a plumber here from Switzerland who has noted he is working at a much lower rate vs his Aussie coworkers - this is partly magnified by the fact that his previous sponsor went bankrupt and he had to get picked up in 28 days. The change to 90 days to find new work will help.

2) 457s in positions that are 'highly skilled' - Phd's in engineering for example, or those with 20-30 years of international work with top degrees from around the world. I work with some of these types, and as noted they are often on 20%-50% more vs locals. I'm not sure how the 4 month advertising rule is going to address this issue - most for profit firms don't bring in ex-pats at large premiums for no reason. I'd also argue in some cases - such as Asia region expansion, there really is not local talent available - if you are pushing business to new regions where possible it does make sense to bring people in with deep experience in these regions. Companies must agree otherwise they wouldn't also pay large premiums to do just that.

3) Outsourcing. This is a huge issue in the banking sector here - IT is not my main focus, but the amount of outsourcing I've seen to India and other parts of Asia since last March is massive. I've been a part of similar initiatives in the UK (moving a finance backoffice function to Mumbai) and the USA - and my experience in Australia so far is firms are the most aggressive here, and not very strategic. I've seen 50%-90% of IT teams wiped out in a few months - very little thought is going in to longer term impacts, keeping a 'core' Australia team base, plans to 'bring back jobs' etc, it is purely a 'guy X in Mumbai will work for 1/3 as much' and that is that. Yet the press is worked up by 457's.

The unfortunate aspect of the outsourcing going on to these levels, and so quickly, is that companies are not strategically positioned to get their service levels up, more and more 'help' is expected from Australians (I know guys that do remain in Australia on IT teams working crazy hours now, bailing out the outsourced teams which continue to screw up systems and customers service).
If you just play the numbers game, especially in areas like IT, a focus on outsourcing would be better policy if these really is about 'local jobs'.

Bermudashorts

I would disagree that legislating to prevent individuals or companies from sourcing products and services from overseas would be easy. I think it would be hard. And therefore it is entirely sensible that the government would look to see what they can control if they want to take action. Although as I say, I suspect the election was more the motive than anything else.

Amazulu

Some tradesmen can be 'highly skilled'. Don't necessarily need an advanced degree to be 'highly skilled'

People with a Phd are not always 'highly skilled' - sometimes quite the opposite

Outsourcing is generally a mess wherever it is done - not only from Australia

rld1177

Part of the issue here is perception. The plumber I know studied I believe two years in Switzerland and no doubt is 'skilled'. That said, when he has another Aussie plumber working next to him, he doesn't see a distinction in skill (even if it exists). This guy has had real issues with his Aussie coworkers in terms of respect, in addition to issues with the union. On the other hand, a local Aussie with an undergraduate degree and a few years in a regional bank could look at an expat on a higher package with several advanced degrees and 20 years on international experience as 'highly skilled'. On average, I don't see big issues in my bank at least with 457's and our pay packages in cases where the individual has an impressive CV. Sure, you get the usual comments that 'education and international experience doesn't matter' but these are made by people lacking in one or both of these areas. Human nature.

Outsourcing is a mess certainly, but so far (in my experience, I could be totally wrong) the way it is handled strategically here is poor compared to the USA and, especially, the UK (I can think of cases in the UK where we gave people 3+ year payouts when their job was being moved, for example)

Tim65

We were fully aware of the situation, not complaining, we funded part of the 457 visa and paid a large part of the PR visa.This is how it should be I think I may have not made my point to clear just saying that I don't think the system is being abused to the point that is being branded about in the media , I may be wrong though.
Although Miss Gillards assistent was working on a 457 has he gone back to uk yet ?

verystormy

There were apparently 29,000 457 visas granted for WA in the last year of records - 2011-12.

I personally, do not believe there was a need to bring in that many people

paddyo

Sorry BS but I do not agree with any of that last paragraph. Surely paying FULL taxes is paying for schools and Healthcare the same as PR/Citizens, thus paying your own way?? Plus, if you require childcare then as a 457 you are not entitled to any rebate, unlike PR/Citizen, so you in fact pay MORE than your peers. As for significant number of people cancelling their Healthcare, where is the parametric data to support that statement...it seems a bit of an offhand throwaway statistic to me.

paddyo

Well that depends on the breakdown of skills, geographic location and available workforce. You could not possibly know the need unless you have the facts.