new 457 law
Jun 28th 2013, 3:06 am
#16
Almost more Oz than Pom
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Brisbane northern suburbs
Posts: 1,154
Re: new 457 law
I thought that one of the requirements of employing someone on a 457 was that the pay rate had to be comparable with local market rates - if this is true what is the advantage in sacking locals and replacing them with 457's?
Jun 28th 2013, 7:43 am
#17
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,555
Re: new 457 law
You cannot stop off shoring.
Business here has become lazy and stingy with local training and development and used the 457 scheme to hide their failings. Now the mining boom is dropping off I would expect that sector will use locally laid off workers rather than imports.
Business here has become lazy and stingy with local training and development and used the 457 scheme to hide their failings. Now the mining boom is dropping off I would expect that sector will use locally laid off workers rather than imports.
That is an interesting observation, I've certainly noticed massive offshoring in IT since I've been here in Melbourne. What seems to be lost in the attacks on 457's (I get it - politics) is the offshoring going on in the entire sector. I thought it was aggressive when I lived in the USA and UK but we at least kept core groups onshore. Some banks here are offshoring so much to India and lately Manila that I wonder if Australia will have a tech sector left in a few more years - I am speaking here about jobs that would have been ideal for 22 - 30 year old Australians just out of Uni - these are going offshore at 1/3 to 1/4 the price fully loaded - I'd strongly debate the quality of the offshore resources but banks here seem quite short term focused and could care less about long term impacts of this. Australians truly worried about protecting jobs should look closer and offshoring and making this sort of thing a bit more difficult vs getting worked up about an Indian coming here make 70K in a job an Australian would do for 80K - which is clearly the major concern in the press, ironically all this will do is cause further offshoring of these sorts of jobs.
Jun 28th 2013, 8:22 am
#18
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Perth, WA
Posts: 1,376
Re: new 457 law
It's rorted beyond belief.
Say you need someone with x specialisations for a job. You can find it locally but it will cost well in excess of 100k a year to hire someone.
So you import someone on a 457 who will work for 80K - bingo, you've just saved 30-50% of your costs so you can undercut your competitors.
Do you advertise the job first ? Do you buggery
Say you need someone with x specialisations for a job. You can find it locally but it will cost well in excess of 100k a year to hire someone.
So you import someone on a 457 who will work for 80K - bingo, you've just saved 30-50% of your costs so you can undercut your competitors.
Do you advertise the job first ? Do you buggery
Jun 28th 2013, 8:44 am
#19
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 131
Re: new 457 law
So if you earn over $180k does this make it easier to get PR? I'm on a 457 and started PR application, but couldn't continue it as wife was pregnant so couldn't have full medical (x-ray). Now we've had the baby I'm waiting for birth certificate so I can get him a UK passport then get him on our 457, and then I can resume the application process.
http://www.workingin-australia.com/v...7#.Uc1OTpV-NUQ
Jul 2nd 2013, 10:59 pm
#21
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Joined: Jul 2004
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,280
Re: new 457 law
I have also been advised by someone who had a 457 person shadowing him, that in order to keep with the legal pay requirements they are provided with hotel accommodation, meal vouchers etc. to make the total salary package up to equivalent of the going rate pay.
The post by hoofie2002 also is pretty accurate, except that the last line where the job is advertised, but well below market rate. Business then applies for a 457 visa saying that they have been unable to find any suitable locals (who due to cost of living etc want the market rate).
Jul 6th 2013, 7:14 am
#22
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 92
Govt Crackdown on 457 Visa Holders and Outsourcing of Jobs Overseas
Im interested in some feedback on this and whether im missing something fundamental. I was out for my Saturday ride today and was thinking both about outsourcing of jobs overseas and bringing in workers on a 457 visa. And how the government crack down on the 457 visa holders is designed to save Australian jobs.
It seems to me that if the government was actually serious on this they would prevent companies off-shoring jobs to India, Philippines etc. This would save Australian jobs and would increase the tax base, as we dont see any tax revenue from employees or contractors overseas.
But instead of doing this, they decide to crack down on companies bringing employees to Australia (at great expense to the company) - who come here because of their special skills, pay their own way (ie, health, schooling etc), all the while paying full tax on those earnings.
Am I missing a fundamental here - If the government was really serious about this would they not somehow legislate to prevent off-shoring of labour?
Perhaps that is just too hard and the 457 visa thing is just easier and looked better to the public?
It seems to me that if the government was actually serious on this they would prevent companies off-shoring jobs to India, Philippines etc. This would save Australian jobs and would increase the tax base, as we dont see any tax revenue from employees or contractors overseas.
But instead of doing this, they decide to crack down on companies bringing employees to Australia (at great expense to the company) - who come here because of their special skills, pay their own way (ie, health, schooling etc), all the while paying full tax on those earnings.
Am I missing a fundamental here - If the government was really serious about this would they not somehow legislate to prevent off-shoring of labour?
Perhaps that is just too hard and the 457 visa thing is just easier and looked better to the public?
Jul 6th 2013, 7:26 am
#23
MODERATOR
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 29,862
Re: Govt Crackdown on 457 Visa Holders and Outsourcing of Jobs Overseas
Im interested in some feedback on this and whether im missing something fundamental. I was out for my Saturday ride today and was thinking both about outsourcing of jobs overseas and bringing in workers on a 457 visa. And how the government crack down on the 457 visa holders is designed to save Australian jobs.
It seems to me that if the government was actually serious on this they would prevent companies off-shoring jobs to India, Philippines etc. This would save Australian jobs and would increase the tax base, as we dont see any tax revenue from employees or contractors overseas.
But instead of doing this, they decide to crack down on companies bringing employees to Australia (at great expense to the company) - who come here because of their special skills, pay their own way (ie, health, schooling etc), all the while paying full tax on those earnings.
Am I missing a fundamental here - If the government was really serious about this would they not somehow legislate to prevent off-shoring of labour?
Perhaps that is just too hard and the 457 visa thing is just easier and looked better to the public?
It seems to me that if the government was actually serious on this they would prevent companies off-shoring jobs to India, Philippines etc. This would save Australian jobs and would increase the tax base, as we dont see any tax revenue from employees or contractors overseas.
But instead of doing this, they decide to crack down on companies bringing employees to Australia (at great expense to the company) - who come here because of their special skills, pay their own way (ie, health, schooling etc), all the while paying full tax on those earnings.
Am I missing a fundamental here - If the government was really serious about this would they not somehow legislate to prevent off-shoring of labour?
Perhaps that is just too hard and the 457 visa thing is just easier and looked better to the public?
Jul 6th 2013, 1:27 pm
#24
Social Grenade Thrower
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: South Coast, NSW
Posts: 3,625
Re: new 457 law
It's rorted beyond belief.
Say you need someone with x specialisations for a job. You can find it locally but it will cost well in excess of 100k a year to hire someone.
So you import someone on a 457 who will work for 80K - bingo, you've just saved 30-50% of your costs so you can undercut your competitors.
Do you advertise the job first ? Do you buggery
Say you need someone with x specialisations for a job. You can find it locally but it will cost well in excess of 100k a year to hire someone.
So you import someone on a 457 who will work for 80K - bingo, you've just saved 30-50% of your costs so you can undercut your competitors.
Do you advertise the job first ? Do you buggery
Jul 6th 2013, 1:35 pm
#25
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2007
Location: Scotland
Posts: 3,337
Re: new 457 law
Yep, i am the same as Paddyo. Was actually on a slightly higher salary than my peers.
Had a second 457 with a different company and it was a set pay scale for the role regardless of if you were an Oz or a 457
Had a second 457 with a different company and it was a set pay scale for the role regardless of if you were an Oz or a 457
Jul 6th 2013, 1:42 pm
#26
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 131
Re: new 457 law
Agreed - this is the case at my bank as well. 457's brought in from New York or London are on 10%-40% more then local's on average. However, it is pretty clear that some 457's on the IT side of things at the bank from India are brought in on low(er) rates - not dramatically less but they are clearly willing to take a low base to get a foot in the door here in Australia. I know of one case where a guy is making 20K less then others, but still on a decent rate, and is quite happy to be here, as is his wife and 5 kids.
Jul 6th 2013, 9:25 pm
#27
Account Closed
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 383
Re: new 457 law
Interesting conversation thread, so if 457 visa's are temporary and these have been around for a while, what has been done to fill this gap in the last 10 years.
If there was a shortage years ago, why arent people skilled up, where are the apprenticeships, whats happened to the graduates who have graduated the last few years, PR visa's that have been given out.
Granted jobs have increased with the so called boom, but with 5% unemployment there must be a a certain factor here who can fill places.
With the clamp down on 457's, slowing down in the job market, there will be a few 457's going back to their home I guess.
The 457 seems to be a gamble.
If there was a shortage years ago, why arent people skilled up, where are the apprenticeships, whats happened to the graduates who have graduated the last few years, PR visa's that have been given out.
Granted jobs have increased with the so called boom, but with 5% unemployment there must be a a certain factor here who can fill places.
With the clamp down on 457's, slowing down in the job market, there will be a few 457's going back to their home I guess.
The 457 seems to be a gamble.
Jul 6th 2013, 9:53 pm
#28
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2012
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 524
Re: new 457 law
What about company transferees?
I understand wanting to advertise new positions in Australia first for a period of time but where an international company wants to transfer in staff from other countries to help train the local staff (for example said company has acquired an Australian company and wants to put managers and executives in from other places to help with the integration and training) are the rules still going to insist on 4 months advertising? If the purpose of the 457 visa holder coming in is because ey bring company only expertise then no-one locally is going to have that experience.
I understand wanting to advertise new positions in Australia first for a period of time but where an international company wants to transfer in staff from other countries to help train the local staff (for example said company has acquired an Australian company and wants to put managers and executives in from other places to help with the integration and training) are the rules still going to insist on 4 months advertising? If the purpose of the 457 visa holder coming in is because ey bring company only expertise then no-one locally is going to have that experience.
Jul 6th 2013, 10:18 pm
#29
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 14,284
Re: Govt Crackdown on 457 Visa Holders and Outsourcing of Jobs Overseas
Im interested in some feedback on this and whether im missing something fundamental. I was out for my Saturday ride today and was thinking both about outsourcing of jobs overseas and bringing in workers on a 457 visa. And how the government crack down on the 457 visa holders is designed to save Australian jobs.
It seems to me that if the government was actually serious on this they would prevent companies off-shoring jobs to India, Philippines etc. This would save Australian jobs and would increase the tax base, as we dont see any tax revenue from employees or contractors overseas.
But instead of doing this, they decide to crack down on companies bringing employees to Australia (at great expense to the company) - who come here because of their special skills, pay their own way (ie, health, schooling etc), all the while paying full tax on those earnings.
Am I missing a fundamental here - If the government was really serious about this would they not somehow legislate to prevent off-shoring of labour?
Perhaps that is just too hard and the 457 visa thing is just easier and looked better to the public?
It seems to me that if the government was actually serious on this they would prevent companies off-shoring jobs to India, Philippines etc. This would save Australian jobs and would increase the tax base, as we dont see any tax revenue from employees or contractors overseas.
But instead of doing this, they decide to crack down on companies bringing employees to Australia (at great expense to the company) - who come here because of their special skills, pay their own way (ie, health, schooling etc), all the while paying full tax on those earnings.
Am I missing a fundamental here - If the government was really serious about this would they not somehow legislate to prevent off-shoring of labour?
Perhaps that is just too hard and the 457 visa thing is just easier and looked better to the public?
BTW - a significant number of 457 holders do not pay their own way in terms of health and schooling. Schooling is free everywhere outside ACT and NSW and a significant number of 457 holders cancel their health insurance the moment they land.
Jul 6th 2013, 10:40 pm
#30
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 57
Re: new 457 law
From my experience we had to jump through hoops to get our 457 when we came over, my wife was the main application she is a chemo nurse , all the documentation , ielts test etc , medicals it cost a small fortune, how hard to the government need to make it.we are now on PR we paid out more money again, we have paid our taxes from day one and not entitled to any benefits so I think we have contributed to Austrlia from day one as do many on 457 visas