Averroes

Asalaamu aleikum,

My wife and I are both South African, we met as undergraduates at Maties and moved to Edinburgh soon after we graduated to do postgraduate work. We have four children, ages 2, 4, and 7 (twins), we're both Mathematicians by trade, and I currently work for the NHS doing statistical work while my wife stays home with the children. We're Muslims, and have been since awhile before we got married at age 20, and we're raising our children as Muslims.

We love Edinburgh, it's beautiful and by far the best place in the UK to raise a family, but we've never felt like it's home. It's very cramped and grey and quite dreary, and we often feel isolated because the Muslim community, and for that matter the community of people who aren't Scottish, English or Irish, is very small, and it's very hard for us to make friends because so much of Scottish social life revolves around things we don't do, like drinking.


We're looking at Australia because it has a similar environment and atmosphere to our native country, with more open spaces, and it seems like the major cities are much more cosmiopolitan. I qualify for a visa as a result of my training and experience, which means that we just have to choose a city in which to settle in, and then settle in!


My question is, where in Australia should we look to live in? We've narrowed it down to Melbourne, Sydney, Adelaide and perhaps Perth. The other Australian cities seem too hot for us (we prefer temperate climates, our ideal of perfect weather is 20 degrees in summer, 10 degrees in Winter) like Brisbane or Darwin, or too small for us (which means that our family will lack social opportunities and religious amenities) like Canberra, Gold Coast, Alice Springs or Newcastle.


My question to you is, which city sounds best for us, and which neighbourhoods in that city do you recommend?

scot47

So you want to emigrate to Oz because you are Muslims ? And you do not drink ?

Tr1boy

I don't really get what you're after. You say you want to move to Oz because it's 'more cosmopolitan ' but then list whole load of tick boxes that suggest you aren't after anything remotely cosmopolitan.

You don't want to mix with non drinkers, people that are from the country you are currently living ( or going to live in) you want segregated schools and a local mosque and Muslim community.

It sounds like the very opposite of a genuine comsomoplitan community to me.

Beoz

Australia like Scotland tries its best to be tolerant and create an integrated society for all. That involves integration of people from different countries, religious beliefs, drinkers and non drinkers.

If you want a land full of people that follow your religious beliefs, Australia like Scotland is not for you.

If there are mixed reasons, like economic migration, weather, etc then there might be a compromise.

Sydney has some very Islamic areas. Places like Punchbowl, Lakemba and surrounds could provide for your needs allow you to somewhat bury your head in the sand and surround yourself with like minded people.

There is a catch though. These areas are some of the poorest in Sydney, crime is rife, and not only will you be surrounding yourself and most importantly your children with like minded people, you will also be surrounding your children with some awful people. Sorry to be blunt.

Best of luck. Maybe the best option is to step back and ask yourself about tolerance.

moneypenny20

I think you need to go do better research with regards the climate. There's nowhere in Aus with the temps you're looking for.

GarryP

Got to agree.

If this were a venn diagram, the intersection set would include very few members. Your skills basically mean you have to be in a major city, which will deliver a level of 'cosmopolitan', but that will mean you have to fit in, and not attempt to separate off. Hell, you can't be 'cosmopolitan' and then attempt to say 'but muslim schools'. That's a null set.

Personally, I'd say, dial back on the islam and things are going to work better and you are going to find things easier.

As far as location, I'd suggest Perth, on the basis there are lots of saffers there who migrated for a similar climate, etc. The other place that sounds like it would match your skillset is Canberra (lots of stats), but that gets really cold.

Dorothy

Do you have a visa to live in Australia?

verystormy

I think you need to research more as I don't think you have learned a lot about Australian cities. For example, you mention Perth as an option, a city in economic downturn which has summers that are scorching - 40+ not unusual and a tiny pretty much invisible Muslim community.

In fact from what you have posted, I would suggest either looking at other parts of the U.K. or Europe.

spouse of scouse

As a Perthie I agree about the weather, it's one of the reason I love living in the UK now.

There are plenty of facilities for Muslim people though. I worked for the City of Gosnells council and within that, with the local Muslim community. There's a campus of the Australian Islamic College, a co-ed school for students from kindergarten to year 12. It's a great school and I can vouch that this excerpt from the College's website is accurate
The College has a unique mix of students from a wide variety of cultural and ethnic backgrounds allowing students to develop a better understanding and appreciation for Australia’s multicultural society. Students are taught to be proud Australian citizens and to contribute in building a prosperous, harmonious and safe Australia.

There's also a large mosque in the area, which is well attended and quite beautiful.

We also facilitated many information workshops for the Muslim community, particularly focused on newly arrived migrants who knew little about living and working in a western country. Many were for both genders, while some were for men or women only.

Alongside the above, the area has secular state and private schools, a Catholic private school and an Anglican private school. There's a Sikh temple, Baptist, Seventh-day Adventist, Uniting, Catholic and Anglican churches, as well as several other places of worship including the Christian Reformed church, Real Life church and the Perth Indonesian church.

It's entirely possible for people to worship and be educated within the teachings of their faith, while simultaneously being an active member of their wider community. After all, most day to day and community activities are secular.

Averroes

Seems like we are getting a lot of rudeness and bigotry here, so I'm going to make it real simple, regret posting here, and go about my day.


Scotland is lovely, but it's cold and cramped, and according to the census it's 96% white British, with a culture centred on poisoning oneself with Irn Bru.

Australia has a lot more different races and ethnicities, it is more cosmopolitan with a lot more immigration. What that means is that there will be more amenities for us, and more opportunities for us to meet people whose cultural and social life doesn't centre around poisoning their own liver, unlike homogenous Scotland. Australia has a larger amount of Muslims, and a larger variety of Muslim communities, as opposed to Scotland where there aren't very many of us for now and most of us are recent Pakistani immigrants who understandably stay with their own, this variety means that we will have more amenities and more opportunities for socialisation. No we don't drink, we don't like to be around alcohol, it's vile and makes people act vile.


Cosmopolitan is a polite way of saying 'less white and less Christian' and that is exactly what I meant.


In three or four decades, Britain will be more diverse and maybe the Scottish central belt will look like West Yorkshire, and it'd be easier for Muslims to live there, for now Scottish Muslims are pioneers and my family doesn't want to be pioneers.


Stop being bigoted, all of you. Your comments are disgraceful, I bet if I had written the exact same thing with 'Jew' instead of Muslim you wouldn't be nearly as cruel.

spouse of scouse

To be honest, I was waiting for exactly the sort of second post the OP wrote. The first was classic click bait.

I'm sorry to all the posters, including myself, who gave their time to offer the best advice and suggestions they had in response to the opening post. There was a lot of good info in there for a genuine person to mull over, and as in the case with any response to any question on BE, the person posing the questions can easily scroll over responses that don't suit them.

I hope this thread gets closed now. Nothing to see here

Pollyana

Of course no-one here drinks, and they are all a friendly multi-cultural society with no racist bigots.
Oh, and a cool temperate climate.

Pollyana

If you think what's been written here is cruel, I dread to think how you would cope over here.

People have been really helpful and given you genuine info about life here, same as they do to any new poster. BE does not discriminate on the grounds of race, religion, sexuality etc etc, we try to help everyone.

Do you have any idea what life here is really like? How much time have you spent here?

SanDiegogirl

If you want "less white and less Christian" with a traditional Muslim lifestyle why not try those countries where this is already the norm?

Why Australia, which apart from some communities in large cities definitely does not fit your requirements.

What about Turkey? The climate would suit you better.

Tr1boy

Sounds like you've got it all figured and know heaps more than us chumps that actually live/lived in Australia.

One wonders why you didn't bypass the current Sodom and Gomorrah that you currently live in and go straight to Australia from Sth Africa?

Like Beoz, I was going to suggest Lakemba, is a bloody shithole but ticks the boxes.