Move to Sydney or New York?
 

Hi there,
So I have been offered a job both in Sydney and New York and I am torn which one to select. Both are roughly undertaking the same role, but the Sydney role is offering more money.

I have never been to Sydney but have been to Melbourne and loved it. I have been to New York and enjoyed it as well. People often say that New York has more buzz and should live there at least once. I have been told that Sydney is quite dull in comparison to New York and London, where I currently live. However, I am not sure if in the long term I would want to live in New York as it does possibly have a shelf life and think maybe Sydney would be a better choice if considering future planning. I am 30 years of age and single so don’t really have any commitments. Although the Sydney job is offering more money, sometimes maybe its not about the money but about the experience.

I was wondering if anyone has any pearls of wisdom or if anyone has lived in both and which they preferred taking into account the wider Australian and American culture as well. I have been travelling a bit and think in general I found myself to be more in tune with Australian humour and sociability, but that is a generalisation and the people you meet travelling probably shouldn’t be used a barometer of the wider population.

I think I have over thought the options and I can’t even tell what my gut is telling me.

I know I should probably go and visit Sydney first but I don’t at this point have the funds or the time, also it would be interesting to find out other people’s opinion. Friends and family are split on the decision and is mostly based on weather and distance from UK.

Thank you x

P.S wasn’t sure which forum to put this on so have posted on both US and OZ forums as I assume people don’t tend to visit both.

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

Is this just a temporary move? Are PR visas on offer?

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

Where will look better on your CV? I am assuming that both options are temporary - don't bank on either being permanent so what would stop you doing NY then looking at Sydney the next time round. I would have thought that NY would give you better options for career progression - it is more "centre of the world" than an insignificant little backwater. NY will be closer to home if you have any family connections you want to preserve and cheaper to fly to and from into the bargain (and minus the jet lag!). Which one gives you the better leave provisions? Australia usually only has 20 days leave provision so if you fancy a trip to Europe then you've used the whole allowance in one hit. Both are English speaking, so that is an even steven, the Yanks drive on the wrong side of the road but we wont hold that against them.

You're lucky to have the choice really. If totally stumped by rational thinking, I usually toss a coin and if the first answer evokes the response "best of 3" I think you know what your gut is telling you.

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

I would be working as a project manager in construction in both places. I would be working on the metro expansion in Sydney. New York offers 14days holiday and OZ 20days. I would be coming over on a 457 visa which the company would sort out.

I was thinking about doing NY first and then look again at Australia but I think I am just worried that I may not get another offer like the one currently on the table and it is a good project which would look good on the CV.

I realise I am in a lucky position to have both offers but I guess I am just scared to make a decision I later regret.

I like the idea of the coin - just need to muster up the courage to make the call!!!

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

I have lived in Sydney and visited New York briefly on a couple of business trips. I definitely fall into the "you should live in NY once" camp. Sydney is fun and has a lot to offer, but NY was genuinely exciting and the buzz was almost at fever pitch when something was going (concert/making a movie etc). There is the added bonus that being a Brit in New York definitely has advantages - especially if you are single. If anything its a negative in Sydney.

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

AU has better leave entitlement which Quoll neglected to mention. I think the choice is are you a beachy summer person or a metropolis person?

In terms of distance, young Australians will travel to Europe etc without too much fuss. It's only young kids that make it more of a logistics bother.

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

Single New York every time. One regret on a personal level is never lived and worked in New York even when had the option.


New York, like London is an alpha city. One that stands above all others, for good or bad, in the world.


You are right money is certainly not everything. Experience is though. There is every chance Sydney will still be available at a later stage.


I'd go New York if thirty every time. Good Luck.

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

New York, not even a comparison really. The future options for yourself in a good career are so much greater. And once you get established in the USA you can live anywhere. Everything in Australia is a poor 2nd to the US I'm afraid. Maybe one exception the 'free' healthcare but as long as you get yourself covered in the USA then you should be fine.

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

I forget sometimes that many of us came from London and worked elsewhere before AU was a glint in our eye....if someone has not had that, then NY would definitely be a place to be..by 30 I had already had my international experience 'gig'..in my case it was banking and securities....and I was able to tick a box..

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

That is correct. I did a short stint in New York in my late 20's. The US salaries are generally crap but New York is worth the living for a short period.

That is also correct. The shelf life is short but lots of fun and definitely worth it once.

Experience ranks over money, especially if its not forever.

Yes lived in both places. New York you have to do once if the opportunity is there. Sydney is also fun but New York opportunities don't pop up every day, and (I think you said you worked in construction) given the amount of cranes in the sky, and the construction going on underground, Sydney will keep going for a while.

https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/defa...alia%203_0.JPG

https://dpsi7pmz5b6vt.cloudfront.net...e_projects.PNG

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

As it's temporary I'd do New York and then look at Sydney when that contract ends. It's relatively speaking much easier to get a temp contract to Aus than it is to the US so whilst you have the chance I'd go for it.

Whilst you have shorter holidays in the US it's a lot quicker and easier to get back to the UK. If this is your first chance of living abroad and you have family and friends you're close to, it's an easier path to take.

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

New York everytime

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

Remember that winter in New York SUCKS. And it lasts from November until March.

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

Australia has 'only' 4 weeks annual leave meanwhile the USA has two weeks?

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

Not a fan of New York personally. The people are atrocious. Good place to visit for two weeks and tick off your bucket list. If I never went again to NY I couldn't care less.

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

Totally disagree. Australia kicks the USA in practically everything that matters, quality of life, life expectancy, health, education, the beauty of the cities, the infrastructure, food, the beaches, we are wealthier per capita and have a more stable democracy. The USA has its ingenuity but Australians are also quite good at that.

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

NY for sure, it’s far more interesting and you’ll never be bored. Actually, you may not want to leave.

Remember, far more to it than what the average visitor sees in a few weeks. More like London, culturally rich and has many layers. People are very friendly. It is not shallow or superficial.

More generally there’s more of everything in the USA. You want cities, yep, open space, yep, mountains, yep, beaches, yep, deserts, yep, lakes, yep, also on average it will be less racist. (Australia unfortunately scores badly there). Especially in the cities like New York, which is very diverse for the better.

Also another big plus is you’re closer to many exciting things, Europe too over the pond, not cut off in a minority bubble.

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

Totally disagree. Australia kicks the USA in practically everything that matters, quality of life, life expectancy, health, education, the beauty of the cities, the infrastructure, food, the beaches, we are wealthier per capita and have a more stable democracy. The USA has its ingenuity but Australians are also quite good at that. I travelled the USA for six months and whilst I had fun a lot of the country is barely above the third world and actually very dated.

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

Australia is not racist. Three times in my life I have been attacked/verbally abused etc (I am white) and two of the times it was in New York.

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

Well anecdotally sure, but trend wise it is statistically. One of the worst, typically.

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

I would say it is a must do. Probably only second to London and Europe culturally. If you lived in just two places on the globe, live in Europe, try the US.
The land of opertunity. You’ll never be bored, I doubt you’ll regret it.

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

Complete and abject nonsense. Which country has regular 'race riots' and the Black Lives Matter movement because the cops kills so many black people? Australia is the most successful multicultural society in the world and I have lived in the UK and spent 6 months travelling the USA (1998) so I do have some insight. Of course there are some 'racists' here but there is the USA as well. I work with people from all over the world and they all so they have felt nothing but welcome in Australia, I loathe this Australia is racist nonsense.

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

Truth hurts.
You could sell Australia on a few things but not this, never this.

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

Sorry, but Australia has a MASSIVE issue with racism. I have never been so disgusted in my life at the levels of racism. In many ways it was worse than South Africa during apartheid as at least that had the excuse of being institutional led.

My wife is from a none white / none European background and had never felt it for over 20 years until we were in Oz. Australia has a lot of good things, but some serious negatives and this is one of its massive negatives.

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

Maybe that's because you lived in Perth which is full to the brim of South Africans.

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

That's some very good points. I must say the only place I have been taunted for being white is the USA. I don't see a lot of racist activity in Sydney, but if you do, it generally comes from the Islamic community.

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

Plenty of racism still around in Australia. Queensland small towns are a case in point; lots of racist attitudes and comments, especially among the older part of the community and they don't see anything wrong in it.
But you know already; that its been debated on BE more times than I can remember.

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

I can imagine small towns in Queensland are very insular. Some of the worst racism I have seen from small towns is in farming villages in Surrey and Sussex. They are scared of the multiculturalism of London.

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

With respect, a white person cannot imagine the level of racism that occurs in Australia unless you're in a close relationship with a non white. To say you've been abused for being white three times in NY in no way relates to the level of racism non whites receive - both in Aus and the US. (Not saying racism towards whites doesn't happen).

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

You missed some of the things the US has more of - guns, mass shootings, kids going to school and never going home..

If you're going compare countries you need to be honest.

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

I loved New York! Every single person we encountered was so friendly, and genuinely interested in asking about us and whether we were enjoying ourselves. I'd go back in a heartbeat.

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

+1 NYC is about the people, probably why it attracts so many interesting folk...

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

Guns are an issue yes. I wasn’t doing a complete breakdown of the country item by item, that doesn’t make it dishonest though.

NYC itself does seem pretty safe, as does most of it to be honest.

I just wanted to point out the USA is epic for ‘countryside’ too.

For example, 1hr from NYC you can hit the Appelacian trail. How cool is that. Part of having an interior that is highly interesting and beatiful, it’s not 95% dry desert dust bowl.

New Jersey next door is the Garden state, mostly green open space with big houses.

Canada is within a short drive too. It is well connected, for example with Europe.

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

Tainted for being white? Really not the wider problem I was thinking of.

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

They are both fun places. It all depends on what you enjoy. If you like easy access to quality beaches, scuba diving and national parks then Sydney is much better. Sydney is also safer and with a much better environment.

If you want hustle and bustle New York has a lot of that. A real lot of that. Your accent will get you a lot of quality “attention” with the locals too.

Both Australians and Americans are friendly.

On racism, regional Australia and regional US can both be appalling. I’ve seen and heard disgraceful things in both countries.

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

There is less racism than existed in the past for sure, but that's coming from a very high bar. One factor that prohibits a lot is what some call PC. It is really not tolerated in most work places, but while diminished it is certainly out there. Saying that some people of colour appear to be targeted more than others, whom claim none at all. Discussing this with an Aussie friend, a few months ago, he still thinks there is plenty, living in a rather diverse multi cultural suburb, where as where I live in inner city there is none that I have witnessed. At least in recent dozen years. Never experienced it being expressed by others within the work force, but my area would more likely not have been a place racists would have felt particularly confident to express their abhorrent views.


But saying that one colleague's partner of Sri Lankan background, without fluent English, experienced 'heavy' racism when working at a meat works, south of Perth.


Hence wrong to say it isn't there and probably dangerous to think it has gone away for ever. It would not take too much in the present climate for a party to make an election issue. In that case giving a degree of fertilisation, some may be very surprised at both whom along with the number that come out of the woodwork.

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

I'd say New Yorkers far more open than Sydney siders whom can be a little drawn in comparison.

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

Thank you for the above responses. I broke my leg so everything was put on hold for a while. Three months later I am still undecided but I think I have realised in that time what matters to me the most is people and I think that will ultimately make wherever I choose enjoyable.

So as one last question please could anyone provide me with insight as to how difficult / easy it was to make a social circle in Sydney? I wouldn’t say I am extroverted but at the same time I’m not introverted. I like to socialise and go for drinks but definitely not loud and a hard core party goer.

Apologies I realise I have really strung out this decision (I’m scared of regretting my choice!!!) but will make one even if it ends up being a coin toss! Thank you for your patience. X

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

Very simple. Just head to Bondi or Manly, grab a flat share with some like minded newcomers. That's the start of your social circle. Getting a job with a good social crowd helps too.

Re: Move to Sydney or New York?
 

Found an interesting fact. NYC metro area GDP is about that of all of Australia.

Thought I’d share that, not sure why haha.

I suspect most people know if they are US/NYC people or gravitating to Aus. There’s always something going on in the NYC area, a hub of culture, entertainment and creativity. A real melting pot. But I’m sure it’s not for everyone. However I can see if it gets you, you may never want to leave. Many New Yorkers never do. Not because they can’t or are lazy or narrow minded.

But ultimately got to go wherever makes you happy. Probably one way to find out for sure, try it :D