Most foreigners who come here only want to be free, healthy and happy. Is that evil?
Mar 28th 2004, 4:51 pm
#1
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Most foreigners who come here only want to be free, healthy and happy. Is that evil?
We emigrate for a) the opportunity and b) to help ourselves to a better future. So do they. Why all the hatred of the UK asylum seekers? Here are 2 personal stories from the Observer today. Third story on the link.
Mei-Ling, 27, is from Fu-Ching in China. She works in a Chinese takeaway kitchen in Glasgow.
In Fu-Ching, my family had just enough money for us to eat, go to work and sleep. Like most young girls, I got a job in the factory. The factory takes over your life. I had to live in the factory housing, sharing a room with six other workers. We were just like machines - all we did was work. We could never go on holiday, go out somewhere different or buy anything special. I earned £20 a month, which I would share with my parents. My parents expected me to get married but I had other ideas. One of our neighbours used to receive money from a son who had gone to the UK five years before. She was always showing off about how successful he had been. She could have things for her home that made her life easier, like a wonderful washing machine. I built up a picture of England as a place where there was always plenty of money and plenty to enjoy. I spent a long time talking about England with my friend and we started planning to leave China.
I knew of gangs that could take people abroad but it meant spending most of the journey in a lorry. I was worried as you had to go to the toilet in there and you couldn't shower. Then I heard about a gang offering a route involving three plane flights followed by coach travel, then a boat. It took three months and cost £20,000. It was an unbelievable sum of money to us, but the organisers told us that we could easily pay back the cost of the journey within two years of working in the UK, as English wages were 'the highest in the world'.
Finally, we arrived in England by boat at a very quiet harbour - I can't say where - then made the rest of the journey to the city by running through the night in camouflage gear. As we started to go, the organisers suddenly became aggressive. They reminded us that we owed them £20,000 and told us that they would always be able to find us. Worst of all, a condition of the trip is that you give them the address of your parents, which they check. If you don't pay, the gang visit your parents and demand the money from them.
The first thing everybody does is find their friends. It can take up to six months to find a job when you are new to the UK and can't speak any English. I never met any British racists - they like our food too much! But the Chinese who have residency always look down on new arrivals and can be snobbish.
During the first months, you have to rely on friends, which can be stressful and humiliating. I was lucky - I got a job after four months, cleaning a kitchen and chopping vegetables. I earnt £120 a week but every day I had to work from 10am until midnight, with only two half-hour breaks. I felt rich compared to what I earnt in China but all my money had to go to the gang.
I realised it would take me much longer than two years to pay them back but I still looked forward to a time when the debt would be settled and I could start saving for my family. I missed my mother and hardly ever had enough money to call her. My friend who had come with me couldn't take the pressure. She is a pretty girl and had been noticed by the boss, so she became his concubine. In most large Chinese restaurants, a few girls are chosen to be the boss's mistresses. He will set them up in a council flat and pay them for sex until he gets sick of them. Everyone was jealous of my friend - she had everything and even went to university. She never told her parents how she got the money; Chinese culture is old-fashioned.
We take big risks when we come to Britain. Many men who have gone abroad to get money for their families hear that their wives have got tired of waiting and run off with another man. They can't rush home to sort it out because they will never be able to come back. It is the same if anyone in the family is sick. My mother died while I was abroad. Now my father has cancer. I want to go straight home but he has begged me not to, saying 'Don't destroy your life'. I am earning much more now I have been promoted to deep-fryer and sauce chef.
In the newspapers they often complain about foreigners. Chinese people are normally peaceful people. Even the triads control only the Chinese community and usually fight with their hands, not machetes like some English believe. Some new arrivals without good friends become pickpockets in Chinatown before they have found a job. But most of us prefer working to stealing. We aren't terrorists or beggars and we don't hurt anybody. We just all have this dream of going back home and building a beautiful modern house for our families. It is such a simple thing, but so difficult for us.
Arben Rama, 31, is an Albanian from Pristina, Kosovo. He works as a cleaner in West Hampstead, London.
No one ever told me I was poor. I had a happy childhood. We never locked our doors as we had nothing to steal. As I grew up, I realised that all our food was rationed, even basics like milk, soap, oil, flour, tomatoes, sugar and salt. I was surprised when I found out that people in other countries didn't live like we did - with six people in two rooms. During my teens, in the 1980s, satellite TV arrived in Pristina. Suddenly we could see what we were missing. England seemed like Heaven on earth. We still played ball, but renamed our teams Aston Villa or Liverpool. We no longer fancied local girls, but all planned to marry Samantha Fox.
Politically though, there were big problems in Kosovo. The Serb police picked on us constantly and beat up my 14-year-old brother so badly that he couldn't speak for a week. Once I left school, the only job seemed to be in the factory, but the Serbs said we had to sign a document stating that we allowed them to occupy the country. We refused and unemployment soared. In 1991, I was called up to do my military service in Croatia. I'd had enough.
I contacted an organisation that was smuggling people to Germany in a lorry. The cost was £6,000, including ID documents and fake passports. We would have to pay this back once we found work. We travelled from Pristina to Slovenia, then Austria and finally arrived in Germany. Germany was really frightening. The neo-Nazis beat us up, hassling us 24 hours a day. We were scared to go out, even to the shops.
I was lucky enough to get on a lorry that was taking people to England. It was stopped at Dover and we were dragged out. I claimed political asylum. I did not run away, but tried to do everything right. I had to live on benefits for six months, which meant £30 a week for food. Eventually the government gave me the right to work temporarily. I was desperate to pay taxes. I never wanted to be living off the backs of other people. I got a job as a cleaner and managed to repay most of my debts and send a little money home.
I'd heard that the situation was getting worse in Pristina and rumours that the Serbs were massacring whole villages in the countryside. One day I tried to call my parents and there was no reply. I knew something had happened but for a week I couldn't get any news. Then I found out that all the Albanians in my area had been driven out of their homes and sent to camps near Macedonia as part of 'ethnic cleansing'. We Kosovans in England were going crazy and I went with a group to try to join the KLA in London. When they asked us if we were prepared to kill, though, I just knew I couldn't. I had been too softened by England.
In the end, I called the British embassy in Macedonia and cried down the phone, begging them to help me. Miraculously they managed to get my parents out of there. I will always be thankful to the British for that until the day I die. After the war, my parents returned to Pristina and were heartbroken when they saw their flat: a burnt-out wreck. Because I had been working in England, I was able to pay for a new flat. It wasn't big but it was enough for them.
I used to feel sick with fear walking past policemen in England. It took a while before I realised they wouldn't hurt me. I have experienced racism from some British people, and some of my friends have been spat at by strangers. I feel sorry for them because their only knowledge of the world is what they read in the cheap newspapers.
Although I came to England for political reasons, I stay for economic reasons. The average wage in Kosovo is still only £100 a month. This only lasts about 10 days as food is so expensive. Everyone has had to cope with Western prices on east European wages. Ninety per cent of families have someone abroad supporting them. Most English people don't know what it is like to be unable to get life-saving medicine and hardly any have experienced real hunger. I've never had a day off. I am now planning to build up my own cleaning business. I'm not 'milking the system': I am cleaning up after English people. It will take a while before I get my citizenship but in the meantime I appreciate everything Britain has given me. I am staying to enjoy a better life than in Pristina, but should that make me a criminal? Most foreigners who come here only want to be free, healthy and happy. Is that evil of us?
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_ne...179605,00.html
Mei-Ling, 27, is from Fu-Ching in China. She works in a Chinese takeaway kitchen in Glasgow.
In Fu-Ching, my family had just enough money for us to eat, go to work and sleep. Like most young girls, I got a job in the factory. The factory takes over your life. I had to live in the factory housing, sharing a room with six other workers. We were just like machines - all we did was work. We could never go on holiday, go out somewhere different or buy anything special. I earned £20 a month, which I would share with my parents. My parents expected me to get married but I had other ideas. One of our neighbours used to receive money from a son who had gone to the UK five years before. She was always showing off about how successful he had been. She could have things for her home that made her life easier, like a wonderful washing machine. I built up a picture of England as a place where there was always plenty of money and plenty to enjoy. I spent a long time talking about England with my friend and we started planning to leave China.
I knew of gangs that could take people abroad but it meant spending most of the journey in a lorry. I was worried as you had to go to the toilet in there and you couldn't shower. Then I heard about a gang offering a route involving three plane flights followed by coach travel, then a boat. It took three months and cost £20,000. It was an unbelievable sum of money to us, but the organisers told us that we could easily pay back the cost of the journey within two years of working in the UK, as English wages were 'the highest in the world'.
Finally, we arrived in England by boat at a very quiet harbour - I can't say where - then made the rest of the journey to the city by running through the night in camouflage gear. As we started to go, the organisers suddenly became aggressive. They reminded us that we owed them £20,000 and told us that they would always be able to find us. Worst of all, a condition of the trip is that you give them the address of your parents, which they check. If you don't pay, the gang visit your parents and demand the money from them.
The first thing everybody does is find their friends. It can take up to six months to find a job when you are new to the UK and can't speak any English. I never met any British racists - they like our food too much! But the Chinese who have residency always look down on new arrivals and can be snobbish.
During the first months, you have to rely on friends, which can be stressful and humiliating. I was lucky - I got a job after four months, cleaning a kitchen and chopping vegetables. I earnt £120 a week but every day I had to work from 10am until midnight, with only two half-hour breaks. I felt rich compared to what I earnt in China but all my money had to go to the gang.
I realised it would take me much longer than two years to pay them back but I still looked forward to a time when the debt would be settled and I could start saving for my family. I missed my mother and hardly ever had enough money to call her. My friend who had come with me couldn't take the pressure. She is a pretty girl and had been noticed by the boss, so she became his concubine. In most large Chinese restaurants, a few girls are chosen to be the boss's mistresses. He will set them up in a council flat and pay them for sex until he gets sick of them. Everyone was jealous of my friend - she had everything and even went to university. She never told her parents how she got the money; Chinese culture is old-fashioned.
We take big risks when we come to Britain. Many men who have gone abroad to get money for their families hear that their wives have got tired of waiting and run off with another man. They can't rush home to sort it out because they will never be able to come back. It is the same if anyone in the family is sick. My mother died while I was abroad. Now my father has cancer. I want to go straight home but he has begged me not to, saying 'Don't destroy your life'. I am earning much more now I have been promoted to deep-fryer and sauce chef.
In the newspapers they often complain about foreigners. Chinese people are normally peaceful people. Even the triads control only the Chinese community and usually fight with their hands, not machetes like some English believe. Some new arrivals without good friends become pickpockets in Chinatown before they have found a job. But most of us prefer working to stealing. We aren't terrorists or beggars and we don't hurt anybody. We just all have this dream of going back home and building a beautiful modern house for our families. It is such a simple thing, but so difficult for us.
Arben Rama, 31, is an Albanian from Pristina, Kosovo. He works as a cleaner in West Hampstead, London.
No one ever told me I was poor. I had a happy childhood. We never locked our doors as we had nothing to steal. As I grew up, I realised that all our food was rationed, even basics like milk, soap, oil, flour, tomatoes, sugar and salt. I was surprised when I found out that people in other countries didn't live like we did - with six people in two rooms. During my teens, in the 1980s, satellite TV arrived in Pristina. Suddenly we could see what we were missing. England seemed like Heaven on earth. We still played ball, but renamed our teams Aston Villa or Liverpool. We no longer fancied local girls, but all planned to marry Samantha Fox.
Politically though, there were big problems in Kosovo. The Serb police picked on us constantly and beat up my 14-year-old brother so badly that he couldn't speak for a week. Once I left school, the only job seemed to be in the factory, but the Serbs said we had to sign a document stating that we allowed them to occupy the country. We refused and unemployment soared. In 1991, I was called up to do my military service in Croatia. I'd had enough.
I contacted an organisation that was smuggling people to Germany in a lorry. The cost was £6,000, including ID documents and fake passports. We would have to pay this back once we found work. We travelled from Pristina to Slovenia, then Austria and finally arrived in Germany. Germany was really frightening. The neo-Nazis beat us up, hassling us 24 hours a day. We were scared to go out, even to the shops.
I was lucky enough to get on a lorry that was taking people to England. It was stopped at Dover and we were dragged out. I claimed political asylum. I did not run away, but tried to do everything right. I had to live on benefits for six months, which meant £30 a week for food. Eventually the government gave me the right to work temporarily. I was desperate to pay taxes. I never wanted to be living off the backs of other people. I got a job as a cleaner and managed to repay most of my debts and send a little money home.
I'd heard that the situation was getting worse in Pristina and rumours that the Serbs were massacring whole villages in the countryside. One day I tried to call my parents and there was no reply. I knew something had happened but for a week I couldn't get any news. Then I found out that all the Albanians in my area had been driven out of their homes and sent to camps near Macedonia as part of 'ethnic cleansing'. We Kosovans in England were going crazy and I went with a group to try to join the KLA in London. When they asked us if we were prepared to kill, though, I just knew I couldn't. I had been too softened by England.
In the end, I called the British embassy in Macedonia and cried down the phone, begging them to help me. Miraculously they managed to get my parents out of there. I will always be thankful to the British for that until the day I die. After the war, my parents returned to Pristina and were heartbroken when they saw their flat: a burnt-out wreck. Because I had been working in England, I was able to pay for a new flat. It wasn't big but it was enough for them.
I used to feel sick with fear walking past policemen in England. It took a while before I realised they wouldn't hurt me. I have experienced racism from some British people, and some of my friends have been spat at by strangers. I feel sorry for them because their only knowledge of the world is what they read in the cheap newspapers.
Although I came to England for political reasons, I stay for economic reasons. The average wage in Kosovo is still only £100 a month. This only lasts about 10 days as food is so expensive. Everyone has had to cope with Western prices on east European wages. Ninety per cent of families have someone abroad supporting them. Most English people don't know what it is like to be unable to get life-saving medicine and hardly any have experienced real hunger. I've never had a day off. I am now planning to build up my own cleaning business. I'm not 'milking the system': I am cleaning up after English people. It will take a while before I get my citizenship but in the meantime I appreciate everything Britain has given me. I am staying to enjoy a better life than in Pristina, but should that make me a criminal? Most foreigners who come here only want to be free, healthy and happy. Is that evil of us?
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_ne...179605,00.html
Mar 28th 2004, 6:43 pm
#2
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Posts: 4,638
Good article Don.
Not everyone thinks badly of asylum seekers - I for one do not. It's a human instinct to better yourself & provide for your family. We should be more annoyed with the gangs involved & exploiting these people.
Not everyone thinks badly of asylum seekers - I for one do not. It's a human instinct to better yourself & provide for your family. We should be more annoyed with the gangs involved & exploiting these people.
Mar 28th 2004, 7:23 pm
#3
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Joined: Feb 2002
Location: Dream life UK....
Posts: 2,912
Originally posted by Larissa
Good article Don.
Not everyone thinks badly of asylum seekers - I for one do not. It's a human instinct to better yourself & provide for your family. We should be more annoyed with the gangs involved & exploiting these people.
Good article Don.
Not everyone thinks badly of asylum seekers - I for one do not. It's a human instinct to better yourself & provide for your family. We should be more annoyed with the gangs involved & exploiting these people.
Australia should take some. On TV farmers who cant get workers had some of the accepted handful of refugees asylum/seekers working for them, comment was hard working, far harder than the aussies who have no intention of working hard in a field when they can just pick up the dole. OZ needs those type of workers. Instead it targets white immigrants who want nice office jobs which are few and far betweem in OZ.
Do you see someone from Surrey or essex (just examples) looking for a fruit picking job in the boiling aussie sun? Processing wheat in the outback, digging roads or labouring on a building site in 40 degree heat?
Also from what I have seen many of these people end up setting up family business and creating their own jobs, another sort of immmigrant OZ desperately needs but seems to attract few of.
Handled correctly, with careful consideration of the Welfare rules for ALL new immigrants OZ could prosper well from a few Asylum seekers. Might educate the public a bit on racial harmony too.
I'll put in a little edit here, because I know damn well someone
will now point out english backpackers pick fruit for a few weeks, so I'll do it for them.
Last edited by dotty; Mar 28th 2004 at 7:28 pm.
Mar 28th 2004, 7:57 pm
#4
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,149
According to Vanstone Australia will be doubling its refugee intake to bring the nation second only to Canada in per capita terms.
The biggest difference here is the treatment of assylum seekers who do not make it to the legal migration zone. Previously an assylum seekers could get stranded on an Aussie island near Indonesia and gain full access to the legal system. Now they are offloaded to Nauru, NZ and other pacific islands and denied access to the Australian legal system. If the assylum seekers makes it to the mainland then they will have the rights that an assylum seeker in the UK would have.
The "Pacific Solution" as it is known would not work in the UK as the mainland is the first point of access.
The biggest difference here is the treatment of assylum seekers who do not make it to the legal migration zone. Previously an assylum seekers could get stranded on an Aussie island near Indonesia and gain full access to the legal system. Now they are offloaded to Nauru, NZ and other pacific islands and denied access to the Australian legal system. If the assylum seekers makes it to the mainland then they will have the rights that an assylum seeker in the UK would have.
The "Pacific Solution" as it is known would not work in the UK as the mainland is the first point of access.
Mar 28th 2004, 8:26 pm
#5
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 454
The article was quite humbling, Don, thank you. I'm sitting here in my beautiful warm home, drinking a glass of shiraz, my kids are healthy, we have money in the bank and a great future ahead of us.
Reading this kinda makes you stop worrying about the price of lettuce and what brand of mayo you can buy in Oz, doesn't it?
sandy
Reading this kinda makes you stop worrying about the price of lettuce and what brand of mayo you can buy in Oz, doesn't it?
sandy
Mar 28th 2004, 11:05 pm
#6
Banned
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,432
'The project, which starts this month, will test ways of helping refugee job seekers into work and, if successful, will be made available to the wider Job Network. Six Job Network members will participate in the pilot project at eight sites,' Mr Andrews said.
Refugees Helped To Find Jobs
A trained tutor is chosen for you and you meet with your tutor usually once a week for two hours. You can study at a place which suits you and your tutor - at your home, or somewhere else that is easy for you to get to.
Home Tutor Employment Assistance
Refugees Helped To Find Jobs
A trained tutor is chosen for you and you meet with your tutor usually once a week for two hours. You can study at a place which suits you and your tutor - at your home, or somewhere else that is easy for you to get to.
Home Tutor Employment Assistance
Mar 29th 2004, 1:39 am
#7
Y Ddraig Goch
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Body is in Brissie. Heart and soul has long flown home.
Posts: 3,722
Re: Most foreigners who come here only want to be free, healthy and happy. Is that evil?
And then you see on this forum "wealthy" (Westerners, ie Brits etc) immigrants to Aus wanting to know about how much child care payments from the gov they can get , how to get a first home owners grant ,and how much the government will contribute to them for their rent payments....Makes me laugh.
The same people who will "slag" off scrounging immigrants (ie to their eyes - non "white" people) in the UK , never see themselves as immigrants/foreigners to Aus.
A lot of the "long opening hours" local grocery/ convenient stores around our area are owned by chinese families, and most of the bread shops - vietnamese. While most of the dole bums on the beaches here - are "white".
Most refugees do want to work and earn to them what is a decent wage , to give their families the luxuries (such as a decent meal on the table!, and such as good education) what they themselves never had in their own countries, , unlike some westerners, that's all these people know how to do - is to work hard.
cheers
The same people who will "slag" off scrounging immigrants (ie to their eyes - non "white" people) in the UK , never see themselves as immigrants/foreigners to Aus.
A lot of the "long opening hours" local grocery/ convenient stores around our area are owned by chinese families, and most of the bread shops - vietnamese. While most of the dole bums on the beaches here - are "white".
Most refugees do want to work and earn to them what is a decent wage , to give their families the luxuries (such as a decent meal on the table!, and such as good education) what they themselves never had in their own countries, , unlike some westerners, that's all these people know how to do - is to work hard.
cheers
Mar 29th 2004, 1:49 am
#8
(It's not my real name)
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Ilukapool. WA
Posts: 12,467
Re: Most foreigners who come here only want to be free, healthy and happy. Is that evil?
Originally posted by Ceri
Most refugees do want to work and earn to them what is a decent wage , to give their families the luxuries (such as a decent meal on the table!, and such as good education) what they themselves never had in their own countries, , unlike some westerners, that's all these people know how to do - is to work hard.
Most refugees do want to work and earn to them what is a decent wage , to give their families the luxuries (such as a decent meal on the table!, and such as good education) what they themselves never had in their own countries, , unlike some westerners, that's all these people know how to do - is to work hard.
It's also why lettuce in the UK is 35p a head and well over a quid in Australia.
So all those moaning about illegal immigrants in the UK better think about how it is a lettuce can cost 35p in a country where the minimum wage is about a fiver an hour.
answer: illegal immigrants.
Mar 29th 2004, 2:00 am
#9
Y Ddraig Goch
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Body is in Brissie. Heart and soul has long flown home.
Posts: 3,722
Re: Most foreigners who come here only want to be free, healthy and happy. Is that evil?
Originally posted by renth
Agreed,
It's also why lettuce in the UK is 35p a head and well over a quid in Australia.
So all those moaning about illegal immigrants in the UK better think about how it is a lettuce can cost 35p in a country where the minimum wage is about a fiver an hour.
answer: illegal immigrants.
Agreed,
It's also why lettuce in the UK is 35p a head and well over a quid in Australia.
So all those moaning about illegal immigrants in the UK better think about how it is a lettuce can cost 35p in a country where the minimum wage is about a fiver an hour.
answer: illegal immigrants.
"They" are the reason for our "cheap" way of life.
cheers
P.S lettuce on the weekend in a "Bi lo" store I popped into was $2.99
Mar 29th 2004, 4:55 am
#10
Banned
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,432
Lettuce & asylum seekers:
Given a wholesale price of $8 for a box of 20 lettuce [$0.40 / head], researchers calculated the grower made a profit of $1.29, or about 6¢ a lettuce.
The researchers determined a 50 per cent retail mark-up would be profitable for the retailer. Yet instead of retailing at $12 a box, or 60¢ a lettuce, customers were charged $2.48 a lettuce - more than four times that amount.
Down on the farm, a mystery: who pockets the profit?
Illegal, asylum, refugee, immigrant, prison, volunteer, local workers would make little to no difference to the price of lettuce.
Given a wholesale price of $8 for a box of 20 lettuce [$0.40 / head], researchers calculated the grower made a profit of $1.29, or about 6¢ a lettuce.
The researchers determined a 50 per cent retail mark-up would be profitable for the retailer. Yet instead of retailing at $12 a box, or 60¢ a lettuce, customers were charged $2.48 a lettuce - more than four times that amount.
Down on the farm, a mystery: who pockets the profit?
Illegal, asylum, refugee, immigrant, prison, volunteer, local workers would make little to no difference to the price of lettuce.
Mar 29th 2004, 5:36 am
#11
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: I'm right here
Posts: 380
Lettuce all be grateful
jib
jib
Mar 29th 2004, 5:54 am
#12
(It's not my real name)
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Ilukapool. WA
Posts: 12,467
Originally posted by Megalania
Lettuce & asylum seekers:
Given a wholesale price of $8 for a box of 20 lettuce [$0.40 / head], researchers calculated the grower made a profit of $1.29, or about 6¢ a lettuce.
The researchers determined a 50 per cent retail mark-up would be profitable for the retailer. Yet instead of retailing at $12 a box, or 60¢ a lettuce, customers were charged $2.48 a lettuce - more than four times that amount.
Down on the farm, a mystery: who pockets the profit?
Illegal, asylum, refugee, immigrant, prison, volunteer, local workers would make little to no difference to the price of lettuce.
Lettuce & asylum seekers:
Given a wholesale price of $8 for a box of 20 lettuce [$0.40 / head], researchers calculated the grower made a profit of $1.29, or about 6¢ a lettuce.
The researchers determined a 50 per cent retail mark-up would be profitable for the retailer. Yet instead of retailing at $12 a box, or 60¢ a lettuce, customers were charged $2.48 a lettuce - more than four times that amount.
Down on the farm, a mystery: who pockets the profit?
Illegal, asylum, refugee, immigrant, prison, volunteer, local workers would make little to no difference to the price of lettuce.
Mar 29th 2004, 6:39 am
#13
Banned
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,432
Originally posted by renth
What about carrots?
What about carrots?
Mar 29th 2004, 6:48 am
#14
High in the Dandenongs
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Listening to Puffing Billy
Posts: 9,183
Originally posted by Megalania
Carrots make no difference to the price for asylum seekers what so ever.
Carrots make no difference to the price for asylum seekers what so ever.
Mar 29th 2004, 7:04 am
#15
Banned
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,432
Originally posted by hevs
But they are a great gadget in the art of getting donkeys to go whever you want
But they are a great gadget in the art of getting donkeys to go whever you want