posey

Hi there
I'm new to this so not really sure if I'm posting in the right place...but....I have recently emigrated to Australia with my husband and children. My eldest children are from my previous marriage and we had to get a court order for Leave to Remove. My question is...We have been here for 7 months now and do not have the mirror order that was requested (due to my ex husband not pulling his finger out). It cost us alot of money to get a solicitor here to chase him up too! The court order made in the UK states that we take the children back in June for 2 weeks and at Christmas for three weeks. I have been trying to organise this and have even booked the tickets for me to fly them back already so I really am not trying to hinder contact (although the kids do not want to go back - he never calls or answers their calls or writes etc etc) When I simply requested that he return the children with a day to recover from their jet lag before their school term starts in July he has refused and says he must have 2 weeks in the uk, therefore he would not bring them back until that 2 weeks is up which means they will have to return to school the following morning!!!!! I have had to arrange that they will have a few days off school before the Christmas break in order that I can afford the flights and really dont think it's fair they miss more days in a 6 month time span! All this for the sake of one day...I can't believe it!!! Does anyone know where I stand legally with no mirror order in place in Australia and the court order being made in the UK months ago????? I read somewhere that the UK courts only retain control for 3 months after one leaves the jurisdiction - is this correct?
Thanks in advance for any advice!

Sue

Hi Posey,

I don't have any experience with your situation, but I wanted to pop by and say hi and welcome you to BE. I've moved your thread into the Aus forum for you, that way someone who may have had experiences with this type of thing may be able to give you some pointers.

I hope that you will enjoy your time with us. Please don't hesitate to give me a shout if you have any site questions.

Sue

Kim67

Posey, I feel for you but why not just speak to the school and let the kids have a day off in July. Probably less stressful for yourself and the kids.

posey

HI - yeah...I expect that is what I will end up doing to keep the peace! My worry is that this really sets the tone for all future contact (as is his trend!) and I'm just wondering if anyone knows where I stand legally at the moment?

John_R

Hi

I'm in a similar situation, but the courts stipulated that the children's contact with their mother who lives in the UK, is not to interfere with their education. How old are your children? Mine are 13 &14, if they do not wish to go back for a visits then they don't have to, courts do not force children of a certain age to do things that they don't want to do, they stipulated this to my son when he was 10!. If you can't agree on a date of return, it goes to court. You can do this via telephone conference, represent yourself. It's important that if you do, everything you say is in regards to the childrens welfare. So asking that they can return in time as not to miss their education, so they have a day of rest before returning to school, is acting in the best interest of the children. The courts always act in the best interest of the children (well they are supposed to), children's human rights and welfare are prioritised over that of adults, including parents. Also you can show how comprimising you are with the courts by saying the children can have an extra few days over the xmas period.

In regards to 'mirror orders'. The UK is not listed as one of those countries were this can happen. You have to apply for consent orders, it cost me approx $750 through a solicitor, you can do it yourself but prefrably with legal counsel. If your husband is not being compliant in assisting you i.e. signing the forms so you can register the orders, then he has to answer to the Court, not you. This is why it's best to use a solicitor as all correspondance will be recorded.

Now there are international laws in place that protect children and enforce parental responsibility. It's annoying that the UK courts still go down the old way of registering orders. The Hague Convention covers this in detail, but Australia has also brought in a new Act and Regulations to enforce this: Family Law (Child Protection Convention) Act 2002 & Family Law (Child Protection Convention) Regulations 2003.

Hope this helps a little

John

darrenandkelly

I was raised in oz from 10 and came back for sick grandparent. I've been fighting for 5 years to get home and raise my family where I see best and my home! My ex says will atop at nothing to destroy me. My hubby and I gave 2 other of our own too and eldest is ex daughter so tricky, despite all were going to move when I waswith him.

Anyway courts refused leave and couldn't see him for what he is.

We offered 4 week return every dec jan. Him and his family welcome anytime. Stop Csa payments which only paid last few yrs and lies about earnings anyway and also offered courts 10k monetry bond so if we renegged then that would assign to him as fighting legal fund. Promise to court so prison for 2 years if didn't return her til 18 yrs old and also said we'd get mirror order etc in place before flying out, yet still refused?! WTF????

We are devastated and torn apart and trying to come to terms with it and awaiting if appeal possible? Judge even got daughter dob wrong on judgment!!!

Living in limbo and forced to raise family not where u see home is destroying!

X

posey

I am so sorry to read your post....we had a fight that lasted 8 months and was ridiculously expensive, but it was very clear to the judge and all concerned what kind of a man my ex husband is and our case for moving here was very strong (my husband is from here and our two children together have Australian citizenship). Our barrister did a great job in showing him to be a liar and extremely untrustworthy. My kids from my first marriage are 6 and 9 now (5 and 8 when we moved) and although we have only been here 7 months I can honestly say it's the best thing I ever did...for me and the children. They are sooooo happy and settled in immediately. We offered alot of contact between the children and their dad - we have to fly the children back to the UK over xmas every other year and in June for 2 weeks...on the alternate years he comes out here at these times.other than this he is free to come out here pretty much whenever he wants (at least it was meant to be this way but he has been very difficult and actually we are now taking the kids back twice in a year and then not at all for 18months....which is mad and I think unfair on the children!) The cost is crazy but we are here and so we will find a way...I hope!!!
Is there any way you can appeal your case?? I know it would be at more cost but I would be more than happy to share with you the file that we spent months getting together which showed our intentions, reasons and motives for moving...also how we showed that it was definitely in the children's best interest!
I really wish you all the best and so much luck - I can't imagine how I would have coped had we been told we could not live where we wanted!

darrenandkelly

Yes my children all have oz citizenship too and ppts well except ex refuse to reissue eldests so missed out on family wedding and not met my brothers twins. It's so painful and I just don't know how we are going to cope. It is a killer! Private message me please whenever u have time.
X

JAJ

A good question to ask a family law practitioner in your state of residence.

John_R

Any court order that involves children can be enforced in Australia or vice versa, through the Hague Convention, that both countires adhere to. Also Australia has new Act and Regulations since 2002-2003 that reinforce the Hague Convention, and automatically recognises and enforces the Court Orders from the partisipating countries i.e. UK. A Court Order, in regards to children, only becomes 'invalid' when the children come of age, the child dies, a new court order proceeds the old.


John

posey

Thanks John - I am at present (at great expense!) trying to sort out a contact agreement as the mirror order seems to be rather less straight forward to obtain over here than the UK courts led us to believe!
Be good just to have it sorted...it seems never ending!!;

John_R

The easiest way over here is a consent order, a mirror order cannot be done. The legal terminology is different, the Australian Courts will will not recognise terms as "contact" or "custody", they recognise children as individuals not as possessions, so it's classed as "visiting/seeing" or "living with".

John

JAJ

Which Hague Convention? There are many of them ...

Which Act is this?

John_R

I don't have the Hague Convention information with me to quote the exact part. But the Convention covers Jurisdiction, Applicable Law, Recognition, Enforcement and Cooperation in respect of Parental Responsibility and Measures for the protection of Children, which came into force in Australia in 2003.
This all came about through the International Child Protection Convention and is implemented federally in Australia through the Famil Law Amendment Act 2002 and the Family Law Regulations 2003.


John

JAJ

There doesn't appear to be any Family Law Amendment Act passed in 2002:
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Browse/Resu...ts/Asmade/Fa/0