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-   -   Mandatory Covid Vaccine (https://britishexpats.com/forum/australia-54/mandatory-covid-vaccine-934578/)

chippy Aug 31st 2020 6:54 pm

Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 
I'm not so sure they will impose mandatory Covid vaccines in general, but I have a horrible feeling that they may make it compulsory for entry into Australia, including for returning citizens. And if they did how would they impose it? Would they say you can't even board the plane at your point of departure? This is worrying. Any thoughts or insights anyone?

Pulaski Aug 31st 2020 8:07 pm

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 
Do you have any evidence, other than your own paranoia, that a vaccine would be made mandatory? :unsure:

andyrebell Aug 31st 2020 8:39 pm

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 

Originally Posted by chippy (Post 12904052)
I'm not so sure they will impose mandatory Covid vaccines in general, but I have a horrible feeling that they may make it compulsory for entry into Australia, including for returning citizens. And if they did how would they impose it? Would they say you can't even board the plane at your point of departure? This is worrying. Any thoughts or insights anyone?

I have never been to Australia but surely they cannot deny their own citizens re-entry into the country if they refuse the vaccine or had not been vaccinated before leaving?

NickyC Aug 31st 2020 8:55 pm

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 
They cannot and would not deny entry to citizens.

I would imagine the most likely scenario is vaccine (and prove it) OR - just like currently - you go into compulsory, expensive quarantine on arrival.




louie Aug 31st 2020 11:41 pm

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 

Originally Posted by NickyC (Post 12904104)
They cannot and would not deny entry to citizens.

But the airlines could refuse to carry you unless you had been vaccinated.

themerlin Sep 1st 2020 4:58 am

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 
I would also see issues with travel insurance if you don't get vaccinated. So get vaccinated.

chippy Sep 1st 2020 5:52 am

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 

Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 12904085)
Do you have any evidence, other than your own paranoia, that a vaccine would be made mandatory? :unsure:

Clearly, you do not read Australian media.

chippy Sep 1st 2020 5:54 am

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 

Originally Posted by louie (Post 12904145)
But the airlines could refuse to carry you unless you had been vaccinated.

Exactly, and this is the way I think it might go...

chippy Sep 1st 2020 6:01 am

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 

Originally Posted by themerlin (Post 12904204)
I would also see issues with travel insurance if you don't get vaccinated. So get vaccinated.

Yes, I get that this is the simple way through. Thing is, I have zero trust in this new vaccine, and have no intention of getting it, but being stuck in London atm, I don't want to get myself into a situation where I literally can't get back home, ever.

Timmy Chch Sep 1st 2020 6:43 am

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 
Got covered here last week https://www.news.com.au/national/can...6404121706dbb9

Pulaski Sep 1st 2020 1:14 pm

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 

Originally Posted by chippy (Post 12904208)
Clearly, you do not read Australian media.

So Australian media is an island of objective, fact-based reporting, not opinion pieces and politically skewed claptrap that has become the norm in most of the rest of the English-speaking world? :confused:

Maybe I should look to Australian media for my news reports? :unsure:

Beoz Sep 2nd 2020 4:48 am

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 

Originally Posted by chippy (Post 12904212)
Yes, I get that this is the simple way through. Thing is, I have zero trust in this new vaccine, and have no intention of getting it, but being stuck in London atm, I don't want to get myself into a situation where I literally can't get back home, ever.

Which vaccine don't you trust? There are 150 in development, none of which are available to Australians.

Australia already mandates vaccines for child care attendance in most states unless the child has a medical reason not to. Mandating is not new.

The anti vaxxer movement is a very selfish movement. The idea behind vaccination is to provide enough of the population with anti bodies so a disease dies out. It's not about the individual and their pro choice ideals, it's about everyone else.

louie Sep 2nd 2020 5:13 am

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 

Originally Posted by chippy (Post 12904212)
Yes, I get that this is the simple way through. Thing is, I have zero trust in this new vaccine, and have no intention of getting it, but being stuck in London atm, I don't want to get myself into a situation where I literally can't get back home, ever.

As somebody who might be on the plane with unvaccinated you, I'd be delighted if the airlines banned anyone who has not been vaccinated (obviously assuming we one day have an effective, safe and freely available vaccine).

Pollyana Sep 2nd 2020 11:59 am

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 

Originally Posted by Beoz (Post 12904717)
Which vaccine don't you trust? There are 150 in development, none of which are available to Australians.

Australia already mandates vaccines for child care attendance in most states unless the child has a medical reason not to. Mandating is not new.

The anti vaxxer movement is a very selfish movement. The idea behind vaccination is to provide enough of the population with anti bodies so a disease dies out. It's not about the individual and their pro choice ideals, it's about everyone else.


Please bear in mid that there are also medical reasons why some people do not wish to be cannot be vaccinated. Nor everyone is an "anti-vaxxer" - some people just want to msintain there exiting level of health without a greater risk.

chippy Sep 2nd 2020 8:29 pm

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 

Originally Posted by Beoz (Post 12904717)
Which vaccine don't you trust? There are 150 in development, none of which are available to Australians.

Australia already mandates vaccines for child care attendance in most states unless the child has a medical reason not to. Mandating is not new.

The anti vaxxer movement is a very selfish movement. The idea behind vaccination is to provide enough of the population with anti bodies so a disease dies out. It's not about the individual and their pro choice ideals, it's about everyone else.

Yes, as you say, they do mandate for childcare, but there is not a general mandate saying, "all children must be vaccinate no matter what". If they said, "everyone must have the Covid vaccination", then that would indeed be a new level of mandating.

Given the comment you have made about anti-vaxxer's, I think it likely that your level of research into the matter is rather shallow.

chippy Sep 2nd 2020 8:34 pm

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 

Originally Posted by louie (Post 12904720)
As somebody who might be on the plane with unvaccinated you, I'd be delighted if the airlines banned anyone who has not been vaccinated (obviously assuming we one day have an effective, safe and freely available vaccine).

Well, could we have planes for un-vaccinated persons only? Could this be an alternative to constantly banning things certain sectors of the population does not like?

Pulaski Sep 2nd 2020 8:36 pm

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 

Originally Posted by chippy (Post 12905035)
.... Given the comment you have made about anti-vaxxer's, I think it likely that your level of research into the matter is rather shallow.

It's an opinion. It's OK to have opinions that are different from yours. I happen to agree with Beoz's opinion.

There are good medical reasons for some people to not have a vaccine, but IMO "I don't feel like it", or similar, is not one of them.

Originally Posted by chippy (Post 12904212)
..... Thing is, I have zero trust in this new vaccine, .....

So you "don't trust" something that doesn't yet exist, at least not in a form that is publically available. Hmmm, OK. :unsure:

Originally Posted by chippy (Post 12905045)
.... (despite your arrogant condescending tone).

Thank you! :wub:

chippy Sep 2nd 2020 8:39 pm

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 

Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 12904334)
So Australian media is an island of objective, fact-based reporting, not opinion pieces and politically skewed claptrap that has become the norm in most of the rest of the English-speaking world? :confused:

Maybe I should look to Australian media for my news reports? :unsure:

The mainstream media is certainly bs, I agree with you on that (despite your arrogant condescending tone).

chippy Sep 2nd 2020 8:50 pm

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 

Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 12905042)
It's an opinion. It's OK to have opinions that are different from yours. I happen to agree with Beoz's opinion.

There are good medical reasons for some people to not have a vaccine, but IMO "I don't feel like it", or similar, is not one of them.

So you "don't trust" something that doesn't yet exist, at least not in a form that is publically available. Hmmm, OK. :unsure:

Thank you! :wub:

So can I just say "no I don't want it". It has to be a reason that is acceptable to the powers that be? I see....

Seeing as you are goading me then yes, I don't trust the Covid virus vaccine that doesn't exist yet. Barring a yellow fever jab that I had to have for work in Nigeria, I have never had a vaccine in my life, even in childhood, and don't plan on starting now. This is my opinion, which in your words is ok to have.

Pulaski Sep 2nd 2020 8:55 pm

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 

Originally Posted by chippy (Post 12905050)
So I can just say "no I don't want it". It has to be a reason that is acceptable to the powers that be? I see....

Seeing as you are goading me then yes, I don't trust the Covid virus vaccine that doesn't exist yet. Barring a yellow fever jab that I had to have for work in Nigeria, I have never had a vaccine in my life, even in childhood, and don't plan on starting now. This is my opinion, which in your words is ok to have.

Well I guess you are lucky to have grown up in an era when smallpox, polio, tetanus, whooping cough, and tuberculosis are rare (smallpox is extinct) and you haven't been infected as all are potentially fatal or can cause permanent injuries. ..... They are rare precisely because 90% plus of the population in the industrialized world have had the vaccines. :nod:

chippy Sep 2nd 2020 9:01 pm

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 

Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 12905051)
Well I guess you are lucky to have grown up in an era when smallpox, polio, tetanus, whooping cough, and tuberculosis are rare (smallpox is extinct) and you haven't been infected as all are potentially fatal or can cause permanent injuries. ..... They are rare precisely because 90% plus of the population in the industrialized world have had the vaccines. :nod:

You say that as if it's a fact disputed by no-one. There is actually a great deal of research that disputes it quite emphatically...

Pulaski Sep 2nd 2020 9:05 pm

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 

Originally Posted by chippy (Post 12905054)
You say that as if it's a fact disputed by no-one. There is actually a great deal of research that disputes it quite emphatically...

Well there are people who sincerely believe the earth is flat, but that doesn't mean that their beliefs aren't nonsense.

Anyway the countries were those diseases remain endemic are closely correlated with the countries which do not vaccinate. Are there other possible vaccinations? Sure. .... Do they make any sense? Not so much.

chippy Sep 2nd 2020 9:09 pm

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 

Originally Posted by Timmy Chch (Post 12904216)

Yes, I have seen this article, but thank you for posting it.

chippy Sep 2nd 2020 9:16 pm

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 

Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 12905057)
Well there are people who sincerely believe the earth is flat, but that doesn't mean that their beliefs aren't nonsense.

Anyway the countries were those diseases remain endemic are closely correlated with the countries which do not vaccinate. Are there other possible vaccinations? Sure. .... Do they make any sense? Not so much.

Well, flat Earth is a bit of an extreme example. The whole vaccination topic is a can of worms tbh, I understand the vast majority are all for it, and I'm ok with that. What I'm not ok with is forcing people. It's a very slippery slope, and represents the thin end of a very thick wedge....

andyrebell Sep 2nd 2020 9:58 pm

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 

Originally Posted by NickyC (Post 12904104)
They cannot and would not deny entry to citizens.

I would imagine the most likely scenario is vaccine (and prove it) OR - just like currently - you go into compulsory, expensive quarantine on arrival.

As maybe but surely with the existence of vaccine and vaccination within the population quarantine requirement would be redundant, maybe even illegal? Though fwiw I have no knowledge of Australian law.

Beoz Sep 2nd 2020 10:49 pm

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 

Originally Posted by chippy (Post 12905035)
Yes, as you say, they do mandate for childcare, but there is not a general mandate saying, "all children must be vaccinate no matter what". If they said, "everyone must have the Covid vaccination", then that would indeed be a new level of mandating.

Given the comment you have made about anti-vaxxer's, I think it likely that your level of research into the matter is rather shallow.

Well not really. As I said, children don't have to be vaccinated for medical reasons. Given we don't have a COVID vaccine yet there is unlikely to be any established medical reasons.

As you said, "I don't trust it", that's not a medical reason. However I did ask what you don't trust? 5G implants?

Religious reasons as per some of the pacific island rugby players, again, pretend friend in the sky should not really be a reason either. You start opening that loop hole and no one gets vaccinated and we live with COVID forever. Do you want that?

chippy Sep 3rd 2020 5:54 pm

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 
Beoz, I want to be able to say, "oh yeah thanks, but I don't want it", or "hmmm, I don't fancy this one, so I'll pass thanks." I don't think I should have to justify myself, or give a reason that fits "acceptable reasons not to have it", medical or otherwise. I could give reasons why I don't want it, but for me that would be circumventing my point, which is that I should not have to give a reason. At the end of the day I must be able to have authority about what chemicals are injected into my body.

Beoz Sep 4th 2020 7:29 am

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 

Originally Posted by chippy (Post 12905381)
Beoz, I want to be able to say, "oh yeah thanks, but I don't want it", or "hmmm, I don't fancy this one, so I'll pass thanks." I don't think I should have to justify myself, or give a reason that fits "acceptable reasons not to have it", medical or otherwise. I could give reasons why I don't want it, but for me that would be circumventing my point, which is that I should not have to give a reason. At the end of the day I must be able to have authority about what chemicals are injected into my body.

That's fine, then I hope the government does pass such rules, unlikely they will though. And I do hope they pass such rules, like what they do with child care, because vaccination is not about the individual, its about the majority, therefore if people choose to think about themselves, then the majority shouldn't suffer.

We need and want to open up borders, and for the sake of a few who choose not to be a part of the solution, they should miss out for the benefit of the majority.

Timmy Chch Sep 9th 2020 10:06 pm

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 
I think most people are generally on board with vaccinations especially childcare ones which have been years in the making compared go the breakneck speed these vaccines are going at. The big hope Oxford uni one took a bit of a step back yesterday. These things definitely can't be rushed

Beoz Sep 9th 2020 11:28 pm

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 

Originally Posted by Timmy Chch (Post 12907988)
I think most people are generally on board with vaccinations especially childcare ones which have been years in the making compared go the breakneck speed these vaccines are going at. The big hope Oxford uni one took a bit of a step back yesterday. These things definitely can't be rushed

It was a step forward for most of the medical views. It found a potential side affect for a tiny minority - great that its been identified early.

paddy234 Sep 12th 2020 9:32 am

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 
I think what is putting people off a vaccine is how world governments have put some of the most draconian restrictions upon society with their goal of a vaccine as the only way out. If that doesn't spawn conspiracy theories which may or may not have some truth to them i don't know what will. Now that the dust has settled and we can observe the data about how damaging this virus is i personally think anyone who is gullible enough to believe this is still worth shutting down the world for in light of the data will believe anything.

Amazulu Sep 13th 2020 1:13 pm

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 

Originally Posted by chippy (Post 12905054)
You say that as if it's a fact disputed by no-one. There is actually a great deal of research that disputes it quite emphatically...

It's unquestionable that vaccines have had a massively positive effect on humanity since they were first invented - which is not saying that there have been problems too

The benefits have definitely outweighed the cons that's for sure

scot47 Sep 13th 2020 3:03 pm

Re: Mandatory Covid Vaccine
 
I have family members who are resolute anti-vaxxers. Difficult to persuade them about the necessity of vaccination for children.
I despair !


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