Originally Posted by Moses2013

What does better off really mean? In one way a lot of Australians are heading in the same direction and better off just means you get more buildings, more streets and the coast is being destroyed like everywhere. You see the same type of ugly housing estates popping up and it's all about growth. Ugly cities with high-rises and instead of keeping a bit of woodland, it's destroyed for the next housing estate.
If the EU as a whole is better off than the UK or Australia will depend on the individual. I do like the idea of a small seaside village community with lots of green around you and people who help each other, these people seem to be better off than those who live in some soulless suburb or city, but of course these people might feel they are living the urban dream. All I know is that the world has many problems and it won't get better with the system and amount of people we have today.

Originally Posted by Pollyana

What a good question, And I would say the answer is totally subjective.
"Better off" can mean so many things to people - not necessarily the traditional meaning, regarding finances.
Or "better off" can mean the whole feeling and meaning of life.
I will be much worse off financially by moving back home, but in every other way I will be so much better off - emotionally, mentally, and hopefully physically.

Many people might see Australia as the option for me being "better off" - I'm tired of explaining it to people who just don't get it. People who can't understand that giving up a good income for the sake of my family, and my own peace of mind, will leave me "better off" in so many ways.

Originally Posted by Moses2013

What does better off really mean? In one way a lot of Australians are heading in the same direction and better off just means you get more buildings, more streets and the coast is being destroyed like everywhere. You see the same type of ugly housing estates popping up and it's all about growth. Ugly cities with high-rises and instead of keeping a bit of woodland, it's destroyed for the next housing estate.
If the EU as a whole is better off than the UK or Australia will depend on the individual. I do like the idea of a small seaside village community with lots of green around you and people who help each other, these people seem to be better off than those who live in some soulless suburb or city, but of course these people might feel they are living the urban dream. All I know is that the world has many problems and it won't get better with the system and amount of people we have today.

Originally Posted by Pollyana

What a good question, And I would say the answer is totally subjective.
"Better off" can mean so many things to people - not necessarily the traditional meaning, regarding finances.
Or "better off" can mean the whole feeling and meaning of life.
I will be much worse off financially by moving back home, but in every other way I will be so much better off - emotionally, mentally, and hopefully physically.

Many people might see Australia as the option for me being "better off" - I'm tired of explaining it to people who just don't get it. People who can't understand that giving up a good income for the sake of my family, and my own peace of mind, will leave me "better off" in so many ways.

Originally Posted by brits1

If you listen/read/watch any British media outlets (bar a couple) and believe what you read then I would say that’s quite niave of you because if you were to believe it all ie the cost of living crisis the world is going to end sooner than later etc then you only have to walk past or go in the shops,
bars hairdressers cafes and they are still as busy, houses are still selling and shopping trolleys are full and you do (well I do) think “what crisis’? I have just been in a queue at Boots and people are buying Christmas presents etc and lots of them I could not get a table at two of our local restaurants over the weekend, there is plenty of work here more so than since we returned in 2010. Interest rates have risen in mortgages which had been so low for years even we could not believe how low after living in Australia but the upside savings are now earning a nice interest and the Irish need to look out for themselves for a change lol

Originally Posted by the troubadour

Better off means not having to worry about medical bills. It means freedom from concern in the age not having enough money to live a decent life. Add feeling safe in your environment , having rights of tenure as a renter, same as a worker, faith in government services with belief in integrity and high levels of accountability.
All the above mean IMO being better off. A society where people are treated with the knowledge of the above allows people to avoid worry for the future , less inequality and the likelihood of crime and corruption.

Many EU countries to a greater degree provide the above to a greater extent than UK or Australia.

Originally Posted by Beoz

Two themes I take away from this.

Your Perth suburb is rubbish. You live in a sh*thole. Solution - Time to move

You had your heart set, living off the taxpayer in retirement, and made little effort in your working years to be the master of your own destiny and future. The age of entitlement came to an abrupt halt and it didn't sit well with complacency.

Originally Posted by the troubadour

No northerner here. Barely ever ventured up there. I'm a bit lost as to why you consider it okay to have sold off council housing at a discount rate, removing the possibility of future generations the opportunity to live in such a facility. To top it off they could then sell after a short period at massive profit, not obliged to return any of that profit for future construction. The result being as we see now so many without any protection of tenure living in private housing and apt to become homeless with rising rents to compensate for rising interest rates or even just greed.

Thatcher took Britain to war as well. I doubt ever many Brit's had ever heard of The Falklands prior to that. But no excuses for Blair taking Britian to war and unquestionably following the Americans. Actually it was a Labour government (Wilson) that refused to follow America in getting involved in Vietnam. They had wanted UK involvement.

EU no better off?? Are you sure? France has capped their energy prices at a far higher amount than UK. Medical systems far better as well. Britain of course, if paid more tax, could have a Rolls Royce system like the Nordic world, with people would most likely be happier as well. Note Finland is said to be the happiest nation in the world.

China changed their stance in the eighties and moved towards authoritarian nationalism where freedoms are curtailed for the individual in the name of the greater good. It would not go down well in the West. It will still take a few decades to pass American might overall, but hardly matters as increasingly gains the ability to do a lot of damage. China tends to play the long game.
With the decline of America this will likely embolden China but make America dangerous as well. We are living in very uncertain times with democracy and liberal capitalism being challenged.

Originally Posted by Moses2013

What does better off really mean? In one way a lot of Australians are heading in the same direction and better off just means you get more buildings, more streets and the coast is being destroyed like everywhere. You see the same type of ugly housing estates popping up and it's all about growth. Ugly cities with high-rises and instead of keeping a bit of woodland, it's destroyed for the next housing estate.
If the EU as a whole is better off than the UK or Australia will depend on the individual. I do like the idea of a small seaside village community with lots of green around you and people who help each other, these people seem to be better off than those who live in some soulless suburb or city, but of course these people might feel they are living the urban dream. All I know is that the world has many problems and it won't get better with the system and amount of people we have today.

Originally Posted by the troubadour

I'm not sure that does not infer that many are doing it tough. That was something the right wing media and Thatcher ministers liked to put forward back in the eighties, when record unemployment was inflicting a heavy price over many lives. Even in the poorest developing world countries, there was be ample number of people able to shop in the expensive shops, dine out, and so on. It is hard to measure a nations wellbeing purely on such an observation alone. It is clear that many have cut back on energy use in UK and negative feelings are high in many for the future. The same could be said for Australia, if in a slightly different way. Cost of living is getting way ahead of wage growth and like UK protests becoming more common.
Interest rates have risen, but always lag for savers. Inflation will eat away at savings, as well as deminish capacity to pay asset debt. We are all living in an environment where no one really knows how it will look in half a year and further. Meanwhile the attempt will be by government, real estate industry and so on, to paint the best possible picture to prevent panic and makes things worse and hope on a wing and a prayer we will recover with the least amount of damage, being inflicted, on the least number of people as possible.

Originally Posted by the troubadour

I'm not sure that does not infer that many are doing it tough. That was something the right wing media and Thatcher ministers liked to put forward back in the eighties, when record unemployment was inflicting a heavy price over many lives. Even in the poorest developing world countries, there was be ample number of people able to shop in the expensive shops, dine out, and so on. It is hard to measure a nations wellbeing purely on such an observation alone. It is clear that many have cut back on energy use in UK and negative feelings are high in many for the future. The same could be said for Australia, if in a slightly different way. Cost of living is getting way ahead of wage growth and like UK protests becoming more common.
Interest rates have risen, but always lag for savers. Inflation will eat away at savings, as well as deminish capacity to pay asset debt. We are all living in an environment where no one really knows how it will look in half a year and further. Meanwhile the attempt will be by government, real estate industry and so on, to paint the best possible picture to prevent panic and makes things worse and hope on a wing and a prayer we will recover with the least amount of damage, being inflicted, on the least number of people as possible.

Originally Posted by Mrs M

Margaret Thatcher did not take Britain to war. The fact is the Falkland Isles were invaded by Argentina and Margaret Thatcher was a strong decisive leader who decided it was in Britains interest under the guise of the self determination of the residents of the islands. The fact as far as I know is... It is the resources that Britain wants and will eventually have to do a deal with Argentina in any event but in reply.. She did not take Britain to war as such. Although it was called a war neither mainland country was attacked and in contrast to the gulf war and the war in Ukraine it was more of a skirmish.

Vietnam was a different story altogether as it was a fight against communism and Britain was involved in Korea. We also had the bitter taste in the mouth from America over the Suez crisis. Blair I believe did it for financial gains for the u.k. albeit small compared to U.S. The way I see it... U.S Bombed all the infrastructure then gave the re building contracts to Haliburton and possibly uk companies. Who is paying for it? Iraq of course as tankers leave daily with oil. Thats what it was really about.

I cannot agree on China I believe they have always had a master plan and as for decades you must be joking! The have the biggest navy in the world now, they have resources, the largest manufacturing industry, a huge home market and to top it good relations with India also poised to be at the top table. For all intents and purposes China, Russia , North Korea are dictatorships. China isn't a future threat it is a present threat. All personal opinions based on what information I have read so I guess it depends where the information comes from and how accurate it is! Lol! We are all subject to propaganda mores than truth I think.

Originally Posted by Mrs M

You have a completely different memory to me.... Remember the famous sarchi poster? LABOUR Isn't working ? Thatcher got people back to work. She took power 1979 unemployment peaked at 10.8% 1982 Due to recession and restructuring of industry but actually it was 14.80% In 2020 Amazingly though it was 23.4% in 1921 Almost unbelievable!

Originally Posted by brits1

Margaret Thatcher did more good than bad in my opinions heaven only knows what the country would be like now if we’d kept the unions running the then government industries, We would have had strikes for more pay less hours every year and higher taxes to pay for all of this and paid by honest hard working people. Socialism and Communism are idealistic dreams but they have never worked and never will because of human nature.