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Life of Aborigines second worst on earth!

Life of Aborigines second worst on earth!

Old Apr 28th 2004, 10:33 am
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Default Life of Aborigines second worst on earth!

That's according to a Canadian study:

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...html?from=top5

The general population in Australia ranks 4th best in terms of quality of life (only the Scandinavians have it 'better' according to the study).

'We' (general Aussies) definitely could do better!

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Old Apr 28th 2004, 10:57 am
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Default Re: Life of Aborigines second worst on earth!

Originally posted by OzTennis
That's according to a Canadian study:

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...html?from=top5

The general population in Australia ranks 4th best in terms of quality of life (only the Scandinavians have it 'better' according to the study).

'We' (general Aussies) definitely could do better!

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Old Apr 28th 2004, 11:00 am
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Yes it's disgraceful all them non indiginous natives making true indigenous natives sniff petrol and drink themselves to an early grave.

Dont the natives realise theyre bringing Australias statistics down, shame on them.

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Old Apr 28th 2004, 11:30 am
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Default Re: Life of Aborigines second worst on earth!

Originally posted by OzTennis
'We' (general Aussies) definitely could do better!
So could all:

SBS Insight, "Demise of ATSIC", Tuesday 2004 Apr 27

SAMARA HANLEY: I'll take you to my brother's house, where youse can have a look to see how they have to live. Where the toilet is, the shower is. What it looks like inside this house. This baby is one-month-old, has to live in this two-bedroom house with no air conditioning, with toilets that don't work, with nothing, and people wonder why the little kids get sick around here. They wonder why our health is failing.

Can not, will not, can not afford to fix toilet - must wait for the cavalry.

No attempt to build local economy - cargo cult - helicopter money.
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Old Apr 28th 2004, 11:46 am
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Default Re: Life of Aborigines second worst on earth!

Originally posted by Megalania
So could all:

SBS Insight, "Demise of ATSIC", Tuesday 2004 Apr 27

SAMARA HANLEY: I'll take you to my brother's house, where youse can have a look to see how they have to live. Where the toilet is, the shower is. What it looks like inside this house. This baby is one-month-old, has to live in this two-bedroom house with no air conditioning, with toilets that don't work, with nothing, and people wonder why the little kids get sick around here. They wonder why our health is failing.

Can not, will not, can not afford to fix toilet - must wait for the cavalry.

No attempt to build local economy - cargo cult - helicopter money.
Prozacly.





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Old Apr 28th 2004, 11:56 am
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The expected redneck replies. Why, we take over their land and then they have the temerity to not conform and live by our standards blah, blah, blah.

There are TV programs called 'Bush Tucker Man' etc - I guess the 'petrol sniffing' etc comment could be put on the other foot - 'they' don't know bush survival skills in their own land.

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Old Apr 28th 2004, 12:07 pm
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Originally posted by OzTennis
The expected redkneck replies. Why, we take over their land and then they have the temerity to not conform and live by our standards blah, blah, blah.

There are TV programs called 'Bush Tucker Man' etc - I guess the 'petrol sniffing' etc comment could be put on the other foot - 'they' don't know bush survival skills in their own land.

OzTennis
I have asked before - How does one encourage people to take more interest in their own health and well being? Anyone answer that one gets a BIG GONG.

Stuff conformity and all the esoteric issues - petrol sniffing and grog ARE THE serious problems in some communities.
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Old Apr 28th 2004, 12:38 pm
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Originally posted by Megalania
....Stuff conformity and all the esoteric issues - petrol sniffing and grog ARE THE serious problems in some communities.
The petrol sniffing and grog are not the problems. That's way too simplistic. Taking them away will not solve the problem (especially when bottles of wine are found on government ministerial planes taken into dry communities....)

I stayed in an Aboriginal community and met a white fella who had married into the community. He was accepted by the community and they were in fact happy for him to be spokesman for them.

His thoughts were directed more towards the welfare state.

Aboriginals had successfully lived for tens of thousands of years without such things as money (I realise that for some that may seem a contradiction in terms).

If I understood him correctly he even believed that Aboriginals as a people were still okay when the white man came along and put them to work for little pay; the Aboriginal still had pride of doing a decent day's work.

He reckons the problems came when the 'do-gooders' (his term) thought the Aboriginals should be entitled to welfare as it operates in the modern world. At this point many had money they never had before (and had done fine without for 50 thousand years) and worse than that, they lost pride as they turned to drink.

Over time the stereotypes evolved to what we've got today - a situation where some portray the Aboriginal as drunk and lazy, whilst the Aboriginal thinks 'what's the point?', and knows nothing else because of what's around them.

The chap likened it to a homeless person who has lost his way in society and turns to drink, except with the Aboriginals we're not just talking about one man.

If I understood anything it was that the problems are not the petrol and the grog, they're symptoms of something much harder to solve.
Originally posted by Megalania
I have asked before - How does one encourage people to take more interest in their own health and well being? Anyone answer that one gets a BIG GONG....
Hit the nail on the head.

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Old Apr 28th 2004, 12:46 pm
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Originally posted by young_lad
If I understood anything it was that the problems are not the petrol and the grog, they're symptoms of something much harder to solve.
You understand well enough - Ennui of a kind.
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Old Apr 28th 2004, 12:57 pm
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Until you have been closely associated with the indigenous situation you can have no idea of the reality.

Before you go feeling sorry for them because their toilet doesn't work etc., ask yourself how it got into this state. Everyone is appalled when they see the state of their accommodation, but believe me these houses are new when they get them, at no cost to themselves and they choose to wreck them. You could fix that toilet today and it would be busted tomorrow because of their actions.

I have been working for in indigenous organisations for the past 4 months and believe me there is no shortage of money thrown at the problem. They are provided with all the pharmaceuticals they want at no cost, they are given nurses in their community and what do they do? On a regular basis they go around and smash all the windows in the ambulance which are then replaced at the taxpayer's expense with no punishment for the offender. The nursing staff never last too long because they have to live behind security wire and high fences to keep out the very people they are trying to protect. The amount of rapes that occur in these communites on the white teachers/nurses is surprisingly high but goes unreported.

Don't go feeling sorry for them for the money aspect. They all receive Centrelink payments without having to prove that they are looking for jobs. Add in the royalties individuals receive from mining companies. Don't forget the government grants they get for projects in the communities which are a farce. Add in the interpreting work they do at consultant's rates ($450+ per day) for which they receive cash cheques and never pay a cent. Oh and if you are lucky enough to be Aboriginal and work for an indigenous organisation you are set for life, as they very much look after each other, milking the system for everything they can get, knowing that nothing will ever happen to them if they get caught.

Believe me it has been a real eye opener for me.

As for the petrol sniffing issue, they tend to blame it on the white man. However I am yet to see any white parents give their 3 yo kid a can of petrol to hang around their neck. Many of the communities only have diesel vehicles so petrol is not readily available, yet the sniffing continues because indigneous members of the community smuggle it in.
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Old Apr 28th 2004, 1:01 pm
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Originally posted by Megalania
I have asked before - How does one encourage people to take more interest in their own health and well being? Anyone answer that one gets a BIG GONG.

Stuff conformity and all the esoteric issues - petrol sniffing and grog ARE THE serious problems in some communities.
As young_lad has said so well, yes, these are problems (although a trip to any city and town in the UK and Australia will tell you they aren't confined just to the aborigines) and so you should then ask yourself why? If the only answer a person can come up with is that 'it is their own fault, they're lazy, they drink and sniff too much, or that is the problem, they drink and sniff too much' then you will never overcome the problems.

Unfortunately no-one can come up with a 'Big Gong' answer to this issue although like young-lad's friend small things if repeated sufficiently can make things happen. Vincent Lingiari knew (as Kevin Carmody and Paul Kelly tell it) that 'From little things, big things grow'. Sorry for the paste but if you can't see that the issue isn't just drinking and sniffing but deeper read on:

From Little Things Big Things Grow
A Song By Paul Kelly and Kev Carmody ©1992

Gather round people and I'll tell you a story
An eight year long story of power and pride
British Lord Vestey and Vincent Lingiari
Were opposite men on opposite sides

Vestey was fat with money and muscle
Beef was his business, broad was his door
Vincent was lean and spoke very little
He had no bank balance, hard dirt was his floor

From little things big things grow
From little things big things grow

Gurindji were working for nothing but rations
Where once they had gathered the wealth of the land
Daily the pressure got tighter and tighter
Gurindju decided they must make a stand

They picked up their swags and started off walking
At Wattie Creek they sat themselves down
Now it don't sound like much but it sure got tongues talking
Back at the homestead and then in the town

From little things big things grow
From little things big things grow

Vestey man said "I'll double your wages
Eighteen quid a week you'll have in your hand"
Vincent said "uhuh we're not talking about wages
We're sitting right here till we get our land"

Vestey man roared and Vestey man thundered
"You don't stand the chance of a cinder in snow"
Vince said "If we fall others are rising"

From little things big things grow
From little things big things grow

Then Vincent Lingiari boarded an aeroplane
Landed in Sydney, big city of lights
And daily he went round softly speaking his story
To all kinds of men from all walks of life

And Vincent sat down with big politicians
"This affair" they told him "Is a matter of state
Let us sort it out, your people are hungry"
Vincent said "No thanks, we know how to wait"

From little things big things grow
From little things big things grow

Then Vincent Lingiari returned in an aeroplane
Back to his country once more to sit down
And he told his people "Let the stars keep on turning
We have friends in the south, in the cities and towns"

Eight years went by, eight long years of waiting
Till one day a tall stranger appeared in the land
And he came with lawyers and he came with great ceremony
And through Vincent's fingers poured a handful of sand

From little things big things grow
From little things big things grow

That was the story of Vincent Lingiari
But this is the story of something much more
How power and privilege can not move a people
Who know where they stand and stand in the law

From little things big things grow
From little things big things grow
From little things big things grow
From little things big things grow


Notes
The eight year strike of Aboriginal stockmen and their families at Lord Vestey's enormous Wave Hill Station in Australia's Northern Territory began in 1966. Author Frank Hardy who wrote a book about the strike, "The Unlucky Australians", was told: "We want them Vestey mob all go away from here. Wave Hill Aboriginal people bin called Gurindji. We bin here long time before them Vestey mob. This is our country, all this bin Gurindji country. Wave Hill bin our country. We want this land; we strike for that."

Vincent Lingiari travelled all over Australia to address meetings and raise support for the strike. Support came quickly from trade unions, starting with the Waterside Workers in Darwin.

In 1972 a Labor Government was elected in Australia and it was Prime Minister Gough Whitlam who "through Vincent's fingers poured a handful of sand" as it says in the song, bringing the strike to an end and restoring ownership of the land to it's traditional owners. Gough Whitlam's words at the 1975 ceremony were "Vincent Lingiari, I solemnly hand to you these deeds as proof, in Australian law, that these lands belong to the Gurindji people and I put into your hands part of the earth itself as a sign that this land will be the possession of you and your children forever."

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Old Apr 28th 2004, 1:10 pm
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I'll agree with you that there doesn't appear to be an easy solution to the problem. However, I don't think it is up to the white population to try and inflict our solutions and values on them, because that has caused a lot of their problems.

Unfortunately from what I have seen, those indigenous who have made good seem to be very interested in promoting their own self-interest ahead of what would be best for their communities as a whole. They should be coming up with ideas on how things can be made better.

I think one of their biggest problems is lack of education. Education would change their worlds in the sense that it would empower them to take control of their situation and be able to make decisions which are in the best interests of the indigenous population. Education within the communities would improve their health. For example a lot of indigenous people have hearing problems which could be prevented if they bathed on a regular basis. Something that simple does not seem to be able to be gotten across to the masses. Education is available to all indigenous children but they don't attend school. I guess a lot of this would be related to a poor support system in the home and a lack of role models.

I would enjoy seeing a body of educated Aboriginals able to truly carry out self-determination with the best interests of the indigenous as a whole as their sole aim.
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Old Apr 28th 2004, 1:16 pm
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How much does the problem of loss of tradition and therefore identity come into it? I've long since been struck by the difference between the Maori culture in NZ an that of the aboriginal culture in Oz, and I was reminded of this when watching Whalerider the other night. The Maoris seem to have held onto their culture and traditions a little better than the aborigines and thus seem to have a better sense of identity. So many of the problems with the aboriginal community seem to have sprung from *us* taking away so much of their culture and leaving them lost in their land...

Just a thought, no doubt talking rubbish
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Old Apr 28th 2004, 1:17 pm
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Originally posted by OzTennis
In 1972 a Labor Government was elected in Australia and it was Prime Minister Gough Whitlam who "through Vincent's fingers poured a handful of sand" as it says in the song, bringing the strike to an end and restoring ownership of the land to it's traditional owners. Gough Whitlam's words at the 1975 ceremony were "Vincent Lingiari, I solemnly hand to you these deeds as proof, in Australian law, that these lands belong to the Gurindji people and I put into your hands part of the earth itself as a sign that this land will be the possession of you and your children forever."

OzTennis
Need to move on from land rights - a start but not a big enough GONG.
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Old Apr 28th 2004, 1:21 pm
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Originally posted by Vicky88
Until you have been closely associated with the indigenous situation you can have no idea of the reality.

Before you go feeling sorry for them because their toilet doesn't work etc., ask yourself how it got into this state. Everyone is appalled when they see the state of their accommodation, but believe me these houses are new when they get them, at no cost to themselves and they choose to wreck them. You could fix that toilet today and it would be busted tomorrow because of their actions.

I have been working for in indigenous organisations for the past 4 months and believe me there is no shortage of money thrown at the problem. They are provided with all the pharmaceuticals they want at no cost, they are given nurses in their community and what do they do? On a regular basis they go around and smash all the windows in the ambulance which are then replaced at the taxpayer's expense with no punishment for the offender. The nursing staff never last too long because they have to live behind security wire and high fences to keep out the very people they are trying to protect. The amount of rapes that occur in these communites on the white teachers/nurses is surprisingly high but goes unreported.

Don't go feeling sorry for them for the money aspect. They all receive Centrelink payments without having to prove that they are looking for jobs. Add in the royalties individuals receive from mining companies. Don't forget the government grants they get for projects in the communities which are a farce. Add in the interpreting work they do at consultant's rates ($450+ per day) for which they receive cash cheques and never pay a cent. Oh and if you are lucky enough to be Aboriginal and work for an indigenous organisation you are set for life, as they very much look after each other, milking the system for everything they can get, knowing that nothing will ever happen to them if they get caught.

Believe me it has been a real eye opener for me.

As for the petrol sniffing issue, they tend to blame it on the white man. However I am yet to see any white parents give their 3 yo kid a can of petrol to hang around their neck. Many of the communities only have diesel vehicles so petrol is not readily available, yet the sniffing continues because indigneous members of the community smuggle it in.
Vicky

Similar things happen when you put gypsies or 'travelling people' in houses. Why does this happen (and gypsies and travelling people have probably only been at it for hundreds of years and not up to 40,000 years)? 216 years is not very long in that context.

It might be possible that people who are very close to the situation can often be overwhelmed by the symptoms and not the causes.

Are you telling me that 'non Aboriginals' aren't involved in benefit fraud? And are you saying there isn't a massive non Aboriginal 'black economy' (no pun intended)? Ask any group of youngsters what they are going to do when they leave school and quite a few will tell you - go on the dole. How many tradesmen will ask to be paid in cash? 'No income tax, no VAT, no money back, no guarantee, black or white, rich or poor, we'll cut prices at a straw ...........'

The blame culture won't work, nor will giving up. And 'before you accuse me, take a look at yourself' another song says but I can't remember who sang it.

OzTennis

Last edited by OzTennis; Apr 28th 2004 at 1:24 pm.
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