laid back OZ

Old Jul 2nd 2004, 11:41 pm
  #1  
kong
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Default laid back OZ

Moving to Australia to escape the rat race/long hours/low pay in UK??

May have to think again, unless you are retiring here(all the place is fit for judging by this report)


All work, no pay for overtime brigade
By Sarah Crichton and Brigid Delaney
December 16 2002


Almost half of all full-time working Australians do unpaid overtime each week and most get no perks in return, a survey has found.

The latest Job Futures/Saulwick Employee Sentiment Survey of 1000 adults in the workforce or actively seeking work shows 44 per cent of full-time workers say they normally work unpaid overtime each week, and 62 per cent of those say they get no perks or rewards in lieu of overtime pay.

The average weekly amount of unpaid overtime across the full-time workforce is now 8.4 hours, while the mean amount of unpaid overtime across the entire workforce is up from 7.3 to 7.5 hours - nearly one additional day - in the latest survey.

While 23 per cent of employees work between one and two hours overtime, 20 per cent work between five and six hours a week, and 33 per cent of respondents said they work more than 10 hours.

Unpaid overtime is more than twice as prevalent among white-collar workers than blue-collar, and women may be slightly more likely than men to work it.


The survey question regarding unpaid overtime was prompted by employer suggestions that people were receiving other perks and rewards for their overtime, said Robert Tickner, CEO of Job Futures, a community-based employment service provider which is one of the largest contractors in the Federal Government's Job Network.

Australian Council of Trade Unions spokesman Jeremy Vermeesch said the findings were consistent with ACTU research conducted for its Industrial Relations Commission reasonable hours of work test case.

The commission enshrined in July the right of workers to refuse to work unreasonable overtime on a number of grounds, including family responsibility, a clause which was now being widely adopted in enterprise agreements and awards across a range of industries, Mr Vermeesch said.

"The commission's findings were conservative but even they held that 17.7 per cent of employees regularly worked unpaid overtime.

"We think there's evidence from various industry-wide surveys which reflect much higher numbers - for example the finance industry alone, where around a million hours of overtime is worked a week, a large proportion of which we believe is unpaid."

That amount was roughly equivalent to the number of full-time jobs wiped from banks in the last five years and supported a picture of sustained and intensified work through unpaid overtime, longer hours and increased workloads, he said.

The survey, which has a 3.16 per cent margin of error, found time off in lieu is the most common form of reward among the 38 per cent of full-timers who say they get some benefit from working unpaid overtime.

Men are no more likely than women to be rewarded for unpaid overtime even though on average they do more hours a week of it - 8.4 compared with 7.0.

However, among those who say they are rewarded for overtime, men are more likely than women to get a bonus - 20 per cent of men listed a bonus as their reward for overtime, compared with 14 per cent of women.

Women are more likely to get time off in lieu: 55 per cent compared with 36 per cent of rewarded men.

Social researcher Irving Saulwick said the survey did not bear out employers' claims that employees were otherwise materially rewarded.

"While there are some other factors at play - 4 per cent say they get personal satisfaction, another 4 per cent say respect or recognition from management - this shows a significant portion of the workforce are now doing substantial overtime without any tangible or intangible reward."


This story was found at: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/...656300833.html
 
Old Jul 3rd 2004, 12:05 am
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Oh I see where you are coming from....money, money, money!

And is it any better for the poms? When I left the UK 23 years ago it was the pits...high unemployment and poverty. Maybe things have changed for a proportion of the population but my visits back indicate that there is still a lot of poverty and the class system is still alive and well.

It seems to be the young middle classes who are the disadvantaged nowadays. High uni debts and no chance of ever being able to afford their own homes. Give it a few more years and the 1970's will return. Don't be so smug!
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Old Jul 3rd 2004, 12:19 am
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Originally posted by cdandi
Oh I see where you are coming from....money, money, money!

And is it any better for the poms? When I left the UK 23 years ago it was the pits...high unemployment and poverty. Maybe things have changed for a proportion of the population but my visits back indicate that there is still a lot of poverty and the class system is still alive and well.

It seems to be the young middle classes who are the disadvantaged nowadays. High uni debts and no chance of ever being able to afford their own homes. Give it a few more years and the 1970's will return. Don't be so smug!
I happen to be one of those young people in UK who cannot afford a house. Neither could I in Aus, even less so. The Oz dream of living in a big house is just that for many. I get pissed off with Ukers on here who sell their gaff at an over inflated price and rant on about Oz houses being cheap. They are cheap for those who bought in Blighty years back. It is a shite state of affairs for First Time Buyers in UK and Aus. Still at least in UK I wont die of boredom through BBQs and summer holidays on the gold coast.

Smug??? Money is not everything although I do like having a few grand in the bank, a luxury I would not have on Aus wages.
Plus I get interest (gasp) on it and no bank fees, Aussies will weep into their VB, poor sods having to use westpac, commomwealth et al!!!

 
Old Jul 3rd 2004, 12:35 am
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I'm so sorry.

So you are young...foot loose and fancy free. You have been to Oz and you couldn't enjoy what it had to offer. .........Adventure, a chance to throw caution to the wind and fun memories.
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Old Jul 3rd 2004, 12:45 am
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Originally posted by kong
Plus I get interest (gasp) on it and no bank fees, Aussies will weep into their VB, poor sods having to use westpac, commomwealth et al!!!
Open your eyes, get a brain, get an Australian Bank acccount that pays good interest, and has no fees. I have.
Don't just follow those fools that say you can't get good interest and no bank fees in Australia. They don't know what they are talking about, and are just trying to find ways to put Australia down again.
 
Old Jul 3rd 2004, 12:48 am
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Originally posted by cdandi
I'm so sorry.

So you are young...foot loose and fancy free. You have been to Oz and you couldn't enjoy what it had to offer. .........Adventure, a chance to throw caution to the wind and fun memories.
I have many fond memories of Oz and will no doubt have more when me and Aussie wifey visit on holidays. I have enjoyed life in both Uk and Aus, yet the UK is so much more alive than suburban backward Oz. To me most of Aus resembled a retirement village, I am only 30, life is not a rehearsal so I will stay in the land of the living for at least another 20 odd years!

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Old Jul 3rd 2004, 2:32 am
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Well enjoy the UK "PB", sorry, I mean "Kong"

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Old Jul 3rd 2004, 4:07 am
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[

Smug??? Money is not everything although I do like having a few grand in the bank, a luxury I would not have on Aus wages.
Plus I get interest (gasp) on it and no bank fees, Aussies will weep into their VB, poor sods having to use westpac, commomwealth et al!!!

[/QUOTE]

I think you are a bit behind the times dear. I have an account with HSBC that I get 5.25% interest on and it is fee-free. And another with Suncorp that gives 5.35% interest and is fee- free.

You need to do a bit of homework in life and not just accept the first bank/ house etc that comes along. This way you will be better off whereever you live.
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Old Jul 3rd 2004, 5:12 am
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Default Re: laid back OZ

Originally posted by kong
Moving to Australia to escape the rat race/long hours/low pay in UK??

May have to think again, unless you are retiring here(all the place is fit for judging by this report)


All work, no pay for overtime brigade
By Sarah Crichton and Brigid Delaney
December 16 2002


Almost half of all full-time working Australians do unpaid overtime each week and most get no perks in return, a survey has found.

The latest Job Futures/Saulwick Employee Sentiment Survey of 1000 adults in the workforce or actively seeking work shows 44 per cent of full-time workers say they normally work unpaid overtime each week, and 62 per cent of those say they get no perks or rewards in lieu of overtime pay.

The average weekly amount of unpaid overtime across the full-time workforce is now 8.4 hours, while the mean amount of unpaid overtime across the entire workforce is up from 7.3 to 7.5 hours - nearly one additional day - in the latest survey.

While 23 per cent of employees work between one and two hours overtime, 20 per cent work between five and six hours a week, and 33 per cent of respondents said they work more than 10 hours.

Unpaid overtime is more than twice as prevalent among white-collar workers than blue-collar, and women may be slightly more likely than men to work it.


The survey question regarding unpaid overtime was prompted by employer suggestions that people were receiving other perks and rewards for their overtime, said Robert Tickner, CEO of Job Futures, a community-based employment service provider which is one of the largest contractors in the Federal Government's Job Network.

Australian Council of Trade Unions spokesman Jeremy Vermeesch said the findings were consistent with ACTU research conducted for its Industrial Relations Commission reasonable hours of work test case.

The commission enshrined in July the right of workers to refuse to work unreasonable overtime on a number of grounds, including family responsibility, a clause which was now being widely adopted in enterprise agreements and awards across a range of industries, Mr Vermeesch said.

"The commission's findings were conservative but even they held that 17.7 per cent of employees regularly worked unpaid overtime.

"We think there's evidence from various industry-wide surveys which reflect much higher numbers - for example the finance industry alone, where around a million hours of overtime is worked a week, a large proportion of which we believe is unpaid."

That amount was roughly equivalent to the number of full-time jobs wiped from banks in the last five years and supported a picture of sustained and intensified work through unpaid overtime, longer hours and increased workloads, he said.

The survey, which has a 3.16 per cent margin of error, found time off in lieu is the most common form of reward among the 38 per cent of full-timers who say they get some benefit from working unpaid overtime.

Men are no more likely than women to be rewarded for unpaid overtime even though on average they do more hours a week of it - 8.4 compared with 7.0.

However, among those who say they are rewarded for overtime, men are more likely than women to get a bonus - 20 per cent of men listed a bonus as their reward for overtime, compared with 14 per cent of women.

Women are more likely to get time off in lieu: 55 per cent compared with 36 per cent of rewarded men.

Social researcher Irving Saulwick said the survey did not bear out employers' claims that employees were otherwise materially rewarded.

"While there are some other factors at play - 4 per cent say they get personal satisfaction, another 4 per cent say respect or recognition from management - this shows a significant portion of the workforce are now doing substantial overtime without any tangible or intangible reward."


This story was found at: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/...656300833.html
18 month old article to back up your vapid whinging. How typical.

You probably moved to Australia with the same downcast malcontent attitude you're showing now. No wonder you failed.
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Old Jul 3rd 2004, 8:55 am
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Default Re: laid back OZ

Originally posted by Ulujain
18 month old article to back up your vapid whinging.....No wonder you failed.
18 months old? Does this make it any less pertinent? Recent reports show that Aussies work some of the longest hours in the "western" world.

More generally, I would have thought that people who are considering emigrating want to hear both sides of the Oz dream: from those that love it to those that decided to leave - it's peoples' experiences that make it valuable. After all, most people arrive in Oz because they want to be there - so what happens to make it a very good experience for some, but not others.

So, Kong, please continue posting your views. Many people do not post, they just read and I'm sure many find both positive and negative perspectives on Oz are equally valid.

"No wonder you failed?" This amused me. Why is it that - sometimes - those that return to UK are labelled as failures? Why, for example, aren't most people that leave the UK also failures?

Or, just off the top of my head, those Aussies that go to live in USA and then decide to return to Oz?

Last edited by MikeStanton; Jul 3rd 2004 at 8:58 am.
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Old Jul 3rd 2004, 9:13 am
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Default Re: laid back OZ

Originally posted by MikeStanton
18 months old? Does this make it any less pertinent? Recent reports show that Aussies work some of the longest hours in the "western" world.

More generally, I would have thought that people who are considering emigrating want to hear both sides of the Oz dream: from those that love it to those that decided to leave - it's peoples' experiences that make it valuable. After all, most people arrive in Oz because they want to be there - so what happens to make it a very good experience for some, but not others.

So, Kong, please continue posting your views. Many people do not post, they just read and I'm sure many find both positive and negative perspectives on Oz are equally valid.

"No wonder you failed?" This amused me. Why is it that - sometimes - those that return to UK are labelled as failures? Why, for example, aren't most people that leave the UK also failures?

Or, just off the top of my head, those Aussies that go to live in USA and then decide to return to Oz?
I thought you were fair enough when I first read your stuff, but I should've known better...

Rub you the wrong way did I? The word "malcontent" set off alarm bells with you too, did it? You've both failed, 'cos you both need to find a multitude of sorry and frankly, lame, excuses as to why you left. You could've left it at "because we didn't like it" oh no, it's an endless and petty session of boohooing. Especially with you, it's Australia's fault, not yours. That's especially amusing, and it's amused the mates I've forwarded this forum's URL to.

You've gone home, you're happy now, why are you still here? Shit-stirring? Trolling? You aren't really good at either.

I'm leaving the US as I'm homesick and I want to raise my kids in Australia. That's basically it. I don't like the US, but that's my fault, and I'll admit that. America isn't going to change for me and I don't want it to.

Maybe it's you that's parochial, narrow-minded, racist and whatever. Ever stopped to think that? You seriously thought Australia was going to shape itself according to your dictates?

What a classic.

Mike, you and kong can cry me a river.
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Old Jul 3rd 2004, 9:24 am
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Default Re: laid back OZ

Originally posted by kong
Moving to Australia to escape the rat race/long hours/low pay in UK??

May have to think again, unless you are retiring here(all the place is fit for judging by this report)


All work, no pay for overtime brigade
By Sarah Crichton and Brigid Delaney
December 16 2002


Almost half of all full-time working Australians do unpaid overtime each week and most get no perks in return, a survey has found.

The latest Job Futures/Saulwick Employee Sentiment Survey of 1000 adults in the workforce or actively seeking work shows 44 per cent of full-time workers say they normally work unpaid overtime each week, and 62 per cent of those say they get no perks or rewards in lieu of overtime pay.

The average weekly amount of unpaid overtime across the full-time workforce is now 8.4 hours, while the mean amount of unpaid overtime across the entire workforce is up from 7.3 to 7.5 hours - nearly one additional day - in the latest survey.

While 23 per cent of employees work between one and two hours overtime, 20 per cent work between five and six hours a week, and 33 per cent of respondents said they work more than 10 hours.

Unpaid overtime is more than twice as prevalent among white-collar workers than blue-collar, and women may be slightly more likely than men to work it.


The survey question regarding unpaid overtime was prompted by employer suggestions that people were receiving other perks and rewards for their overtime, said Robert Tickner, CEO of Job Futures, a community-based employment service provider which is one of the largest contractors in the Federal Government's Job Network.

Australian Council of Trade Unions spokesman Jeremy Vermeesch said the findings were consistent with ACTU research conducted for its Industrial Relations Commission reasonable hours of work test case.

The commission enshrined in July the right of workers to refuse to work unreasonable overtime on a number of grounds, including family responsibility, a clause which was now being widely adopted in enterprise agreements and awards across a range of industries, Mr Vermeesch said.

"The commission's findings were conservative but even they held that 17.7 per cent of employees regularly worked unpaid overtime.

"We think there's evidence from various industry-wide surveys which reflect much higher numbers - for example the finance industry alone, where around a million hours of overtime is worked a week, a large proportion of which we believe is unpaid."

That amount was roughly equivalent to the number of full-time jobs wiped from banks in the last five years and supported a picture of sustained and intensified work through unpaid overtime, longer hours and increased workloads, he said.

The survey, which has a 3.16 per cent margin of error, found time off in lieu is the most common form of reward among the 38 per cent of full-timers who say they get some benefit from working unpaid overtime.

Men are no more likely than women to be rewarded for unpaid overtime even though on average they do more hours a week of it - 8.4 compared with 7.0.

However, among those who say they are rewarded for overtime, men are more likely than women to get a bonus - 20 per cent of men listed a bonus as their reward for overtime, compared with 14 per cent of women.

Women are more likely to get time off in lieu: 55 per cent compared with 36 per cent of rewarded men.

Social researcher Irving Saulwick said the survey did not bear out employers' claims that employees were otherwise materially rewarded.

"While there are some other factors at play - 4 per cent say they get personal satisfaction, another 4 per cent say respect or recognition from management - this shows a significant portion of the workforce are now doing substantial overtime without any tangible or intangible reward."


This story was found at: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/...656300833.html
better than the UK when I was there then!!!! 5 years ago I left UK for Germany partly cos I was regularly working 60+ hour weeks and being paid for a 37.5 hour week with no time in lieu etc...

Think you will find where ever you go in the industrialised world you will be expected to put the hours in. I know my ex colleugues in Singapore and China used to do even more hours than I did. The americans certainly didnt though so maybe you should head in that direction.

Alternatively if you want a good job without putting excessive overtime in go to Germnay. They have laws (which they actually implement and adhere to ) restricting the amount of overtime worked and stating the benefits to be paid.

Last edited by Mairi&Chris; Jul 3rd 2004 at 9:27 am.
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Old Jul 3rd 2004, 9:35 am
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When I was in the UK I was doing at least 60 hours a week, no overtime,, but when I worked for a firm of Accountants in Sydney we were in the pub regularly by 5.30pm near enough every day.

We are all different, and if these posters would recognise this, it would make it much easier for all readers to get a fair and balanced picture.

But no..... some people need to say that ALL Australia is bad. And once people realise the truth, then they also realise that these posters are posting rubbish.

Part of what they say MAY be true, but it's too time consuming to work out what is actually true, so its easier to ignore it all.

One day they may realise that and begin to post sensible, and useful, comments.
 
Old Jul 3rd 2004, 9:39 am
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i work an average 53 hr week in england, but would be willing to work the same hrs in oz for the benefits that i would have there eg. better health no cold in the old joints.... i lived in oz for a short while but came back to england to marry the lass i met 12 months b4 goin... now lookin at going back out there i realised that the grass really is greener on the other side.
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Old Jul 3rd 2004, 10:11 am
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Default Re: laid back OZ

Originally posted by Mairi&Chris
Alternatively if you want a good job without putting excessive overtime in go to Germnay. They have laws (which they actually implement and adhere to ) restricting the amount of overtime worked and stating the benefits to be paid.
Can't really generalise about an entire nation, but I worked in germany for 6 months, and had to work practically every waking hour including weekends, all unpaid overtime. I noticed the germans didn't, they were a strictly 9 to 5 bunch.

Maybe they thought they'd got hold of a stoopid Irish contractor and could work him to the bone.

This was 4 years ago tho' ,so it was probably before all that EU working hour directive stuff.

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