It's hard to get a fair go in Oz
Jul 25th 2009, 3:24 am
#1
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3
It's hard to get a fair go in Oz
Both my wife (Kiwi) and I (Irish) moved to Oz last Dec from London, we had been planning the move for a number of years and have been very disappointed with our experience since we arrived. Just so everyone is aware both of us previously have lived in Oz before for a combined period of 15 years. I can definitely say that the country has changed for the worse since we last lived here. Although that can be said for many countries.
Both my wife and I have experienced discrimination while job hunting here. I can't tell you how many times I've heard "we're looking for someone with local experience". I work in financial services and my wife in the legal profession, generally speaking our international experience is considered an advantage in most countries but not in Oz!! This is shameful. I have now secured a very good job through my own contacts and am due to hire 7 new staff in the next few weeks. I'm planning on giving the Aussies a dose of their own medicine as I'll only be looking for people with international experience. Hopefully this will teach them that anyone can be discriminated against. New migrants are an easy target for discrimination and I think it's time some aussies get to feel what it's like. Incidentally I have hired at least 10 Aussie staff while I lived in London and I always offered the job to the best candidate.
Australia has also become a very expensive country. The grocery prices are outrageous, and the quality of the produce is poor. I think Woolies and Coles are taking the piss out of the nation. I can't understand why fresh fruit is more expensive here than in London, and remember all the fruit in London has to be flown in!!! Virtually all produce is cheaper if bought in a small local shop. Normally big supermarkets can offer cheaper prices to their customers as they benefit from massive savings buying in bulk. But here the opposite seems to be true they actually charge you a premium. I now have boycotted Wollies and Coles and would encourage everyone else to likewise. In a time pressured world I know it is not easy to find the time to shop around the local shops (hence why supermarkets have flourished over the past 25 years) but I implore you to try and make the change as someone needs to make a stand over the supermarket food prices.
If you've moved here and are finding it a bit tough don'ty worry there are loads of us out there in the same boat. But don't give up as new immigrants are the key to the future development of the nation.
Both my wife and I have experienced discrimination while job hunting here. I can't tell you how many times I've heard "we're looking for someone with local experience". I work in financial services and my wife in the legal profession, generally speaking our international experience is considered an advantage in most countries but not in Oz!! This is shameful. I have now secured a very good job through my own contacts and am due to hire 7 new staff in the next few weeks. I'm planning on giving the Aussies a dose of their own medicine as I'll only be looking for people with international experience. Hopefully this will teach them that anyone can be discriminated against. New migrants are an easy target for discrimination and I think it's time some aussies get to feel what it's like. Incidentally I have hired at least 10 Aussie staff while I lived in London and I always offered the job to the best candidate.
Australia has also become a very expensive country. The grocery prices are outrageous, and the quality of the produce is poor. I think Woolies and Coles are taking the piss out of the nation. I can't understand why fresh fruit is more expensive here than in London, and remember all the fruit in London has to be flown in!!! Virtually all produce is cheaper if bought in a small local shop. Normally big supermarkets can offer cheaper prices to their customers as they benefit from massive savings buying in bulk. But here the opposite seems to be true they actually charge you a premium. I now have boycotted Wollies and Coles and would encourage everyone else to likewise. In a time pressured world I know it is not easy to find the time to shop around the local shops (hence why supermarkets have flourished over the past 25 years) but I implore you to try and make the change as someone needs to make a stand over the supermarket food prices.
If you've moved here and are finding it a bit tough don'ty worry there are loads of us out there in the same boat. But don't give up as new immigrants are the key to the future development of the nation.
Jul 25th 2009, 3:33 am
#2
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Location: Westernport Mornington Peninsula
Posts: 1,761
Re: It's hard to get a fair go in Oz
Its never been easy to get into a legal office here in Melbourne, I moved down from Sydney with friends and we all found the same thing, I am from the UK but the two people I moved with were Kiwis and had worked in Aus for a while so I think its just the stock answer if they do not want to employ us.
My daughter was born here and she is having difficulty getting a job as she has had to spend some time out of the work force due to ill health and she is not given a go either so I am sure its nothing to do with who you are its just the excuses are made to fit the model, i e if you have an accent then they are looking for local, if you come from interstate they want local knowledge etc.
Legal once you are in you are in, if you want to work in the suburbs basically its more difficult and more word of mouth. Networking is needed in legal for everyone not just people from overseas. I remember a chap in an adjoining offices daughter had done law at uni, Australian, and she waited three years before she was able to get articles in a law firm and start her career.
With the present market there are going to be a lot more excuses honed by the HR people so do not be dismayed admire their imaginative terms and realise they are made to fit everyone.
My daughter was born here and she is having difficulty getting a job as she has had to spend some time out of the work force due to ill health and she is not given a go either so I am sure its nothing to do with who you are its just the excuses are made to fit the model, i e if you have an accent then they are looking for local, if you come from interstate they want local knowledge etc.
Legal once you are in you are in, if you want to work in the suburbs basically its more difficult and more word of mouth. Networking is needed in legal for everyone not just people from overseas. I remember a chap in an adjoining offices daughter had done law at uni, Australian, and she waited three years before she was able to get articles in a law firm and start her career.
With the present market there are going to be a lot more excuses honed by the HR people so do not be dismayed admire their imaginative terms and realise they are made to fit everyone.
Jul 25th 2009, 3:40 am
#3
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 39
Re: It's hard to get a fair go in Oz
Hi guys
Am interested in what you've said about the legal profession.
I am a solicitor qualified in Ireland. I recently moved to Melbourne and when I started looking for work I got offered pretty quickly a job in a big city law firm doing similar work I did in Ireland but as a paralegal. I dont have a VIC practising cert and its going to take me till about the end of 2010 to get one.
I took the job coz money isnt (too) bad, need to get aussie experience and while its as a paralegal, they expect me to do lawyer work as I'm able for it.
Do ye thing this was the right thing to do? The area I work in is not in demand at all at the moment so I thought a job is better than no job.
Would like to hear your opinions. Thanks
Am interested in what you've said about the legal profession.
I am a solicitor qualified in Ireland. I recently moved to Melbourne and when I started looking for work I got offered pretty quickly a job in a big city law firm doing similar work I did in Ireland but as a paralegal. I dont have a VIC practising cert and its going to take me till about the end of 2010 to get one.
I took the job coz money isnt (too) bad, need to get aussie experience and while its as a paralegal, they expect me to do lawyer work as I'm able for it.
Do ye thing this was the right thing to do? The area I work in is not in demand at all at the moment so I thought a job is better than no job.
Would like to hear your opinions. Thanks
Jul 25th 2009, 3:53 am
#4
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Posts: n/a
Re: It's hard to get a fair go in Oz
That is something that people should remember
Supermarkets are for convenience, and you pay the price.
Go local and... well.. my local fruit shop is doing farmer direct stuff;
Onions 49 cents a kg. Woolworths has the same ones for $2.90
Same for Apples and Pears both 49c a kg.
People need to look around and realise that it is very different here.
Supermarkets are for convenience, and you pay the price.
Go local and... well.. my local fruit shop is doing farmer direct stuff;
Onions 49 cents a kg. Woolworths has the same ones for $2.90
Same for Apples and Pears both 49c a kg.
People need to look around and realise that it is very different here.
Jul 25th 2009, 4:03 am
#5
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Asia Pacific
Posts: 4,922
Re: It's hard to get a fair go in Oz
Local business in the UK went out of business a while ago.
Jul 25th 2009, 4:16 am
#6
Forum Regular
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 215
Re: It's hard to get a fair go in Oz
Both my wife (Kiwi) and I (Irish) moved to Oz last Dec from London, we had been planning the move for a number of years and have been very disappointed with our experience since we arrived. Just so everyone is aware both of us previously have lived in Oz before for a combined period of 15 years. I can definitely say that the country has changed for the worse since we last lived here. Although that can be said for many countries.
Both my wife and I have experienced discrimination while job hunting here. I can't tell you how many times I've heard "we're looking for someone with local experience". I work in financial services and my wife in the legal profession, generally speaking our international experience is considered an advantage in most countries but not in Oz!! This is shameful. I have now secured a very good job through my own contacts and am due to hire 7 new staff in the next few weeks. I'm planning on giving the Aussies a dose of their own medicine as I'll only be looking for people with international experience. Hopefully this will teach them that anyone can be discriminated against. New migrants are an easy target for discrimination and I think it's time some aussies get to feel what it's like. Incidentally I have hired at least 10 Aussie staff while I lived in London and I always offered the job to the best candidate.
Australia has also become a very expensive country. The grocery prices are outrageous, and the quality of the produce is poor. I think Woolies and Coles are taking the piss out of the nation. I can't understand why fresh fruit is more expensive here than in London, and remember all the fruit in London has to be flown in!!! Virtually all produce is cheaper if bought in a small local shop. Normally big supermarkets can offer cheaper prices to their customers as they benefit from massive savings buying in bulk. But here the opposite seems to be true they actually charge you a premium. I now have boycotted Wollies and Coles and would encourage everyone else to likewise. In a time pressured world I know it is not easy to find the time to shop around the local shops (hence why supermarkets have flourished over the past 25 years) but I implore you to try and make the change as someone needs to make a stand over the supermarket food prices.
If you've moved here and are finding it a bit tough don'ty worry there are loads of us out there in the same boat. But don't give up as new immigrants are the key to the future development of the nation.
Both my wife and I have experienced discrimination while job hunting here. I can't tell you how many times I've heard "we're looking for someone with local experience". I work in financial services and my wife in the legal profession, generally speaking our international experience is considered an advantage in most countries but not in Oz!! This is shameful. I have now secured a very good job through my own contacts and am due to hire 7 new staff in the next few weeks. I'm planning on giving the Aussies a dose of their own medicine as I'll only be looking for people with international experience. Hopefully this will teach them that anyone can be discriminated against. New migrants are an easy target for discrimination and I think it's time some aussies get to feel what it's like. Incidentally I have hired at least 10 Aussie staff while I lived in London and I always offered the job to the best candidate.
Australia has also become a very expensive country. The grocery prices are outrageous, and the quality of the produce is poor. I think Woolies and Coles are taking the piss out of the nation. I can't understand why fresh fruit is more expensive here than in London, and remember all the fruit in London has to be flown in!!! Virtually all produce is cheaper if bought in a small local shop. Normally big supermarkets can offer cheaper prices to their customers as they benefit from massive savings buying in bulk. But here the opposite seems to be true they actually charge you a premium. I now have boycotted Wollies and Coles and would encourage everyone else to likewise. In a time pressured world I know it is not easy to find the time to shop around the local shops (hence why supermarkets have flourished over the past 25 years) but I implore you to try and make the change as someone needs to make a stand over the supermarket food prices.
If you've moved here and are finding it a bit tough don'ty worry there are loads of us out there in the same boat. But don't give up as new immigrants are the key to the future development of the nation.
Gizza job!!!!
Jul 25th 2009, 7:39 am
#7
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 593
Re: It's hard to get a fair go in Oz
That is something that people should remember
Supermarkets are for convenience, and you pay the price.
Go local and... well.. my local fruit shop is doing farmer direct stuff;
Onions 49 cents a kg. Woolworths has the same ones for $2.90
Same for Apples and Pears both 49c a kg.
People need to look around and realise that it is very different here.
Supermarkets are for convenience, and you pay the price.
Go local and... well.. my local fruit shop is doing farmer direct stuff;
Onions 49 cents a kg. Woolworths has the same ones for $2.90
Same for Apples and Pears both 49c a kg.
People need to look around and realise that it is very different here.
Jul 25th 2009, 8:11 am
#8
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Westernport Mornington Peninsula
Posts: 1,761
Re: It's hard to get a fair go in Oz
Hi guys
Am interested in what you've said about the legal profession.
I am a solicitor qualified in Ireland. I recently moved to Melbourne and when I started looking for work I got offered pretty quickly a job in a big city law firm doing similar work I did in Ireland but as a paralegal. I dont have a VIC practising cert and its going to take me till about the end of 2010 to get one.
I took the job coz money isnt (too) bad, need to get aussie experience and while its as a paralegal, they expect me to do lawyer work as I'm able for it.
Do ye thing this was the right thing to do? The area I work in is not in demand at all at the moment so I thought a job is better than no job.
Would like to hear your opinions. Thanks
Am interested in what you've said about the legal profession.
I am a solicitor qualified in Ireland. I recently moved to Melbourne and when I started looking for work I got offered pretty quickly a job in a big city law firm doing similar work I did in Ireland but as a paralegal. I dont have a VIC practising cert and its going to take me till about the end of 2010 to get one.
I took the job coz money isnt (too) bad, need to get aussie experience and while its as a paralegal, they expect me to do lawyer work as I'm able for it.
Do ye thing this was the right thing to do? The area I work in is not in demand at all at the moment so I thought a job is better than no job.
Would like to hear your opinions. Thanks
Jul 25th 2009, 8:54 am
#9
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Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Darwin, NT
Posts: 380
Re: It's hard to get a fair go in Oz
It is good to know that not everyone arrives and walks straight into a fantastic and high paying job in their field. I think a lot of us struggle but are too embarrased to post it when others are stating that they are earning more than they were back home etc etc. A lot depends on your field but I have heard the story re non recognition of overseas experience and qualifications over and over again in my time here.
Jul 25th 2009, 9:30 am
#10
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Joined: Jul 2008
Location: East Bay Area
Posts: 2,192
Re: It's hard to get a fair go in Oz
Both my wife (Kiwi) and I (Irish) moved to Oz last Dec from London, we had been planning the move for a number of years and have been very disappointed with our experience since we arrived. Just so everyone is aware both of us previously have lived in Oz before for a combined period of 15 years. I can definitely say that the country has changed for the worse since we last lived here. Although that can be said for many countries.
Both my wife and I have experienced discrimination while job hunting here. I can't tell you how many times I've heard "we're looking for someone with local experience". I work in financial services and my wife in the legal profession, generally speaking our international experience is considered an advantage in most countries but not in Oz!! This is shameful. I have now secured a very good job through my own contacts and am due to hire 7 new staff in the next few weeks. I'm planning on giving the Aussies a dose of their own medicine as I'll only be looking for people with international experience. Hopefully this will teach them that anyone can be discriminated against. New migrants are an easy target for discrimination and I think it's time some aussies get to feel what it's like. Incidentally I have hired at least 10 Aussie staff while I lived in London and I always offered the job to the best candidate.
Australia has also become a very expensive country. The grocery prices are outrageous, and the quality of the produce is poor. I think Woolies and Coles are taking the piss out of the nation. I can't understand why fresh fruit is more expensive here than in London, and remember all the fruit in London has to be flown in!!! Virtually all produce is cheaper if bought in a small local shop. Normally big supermarkets can offer cheaper prices to their customers as they benefit from massive savings buying in bulk. But here the opposite seems to be true they actually charge you a premium. I now have boycotted Wollies and Coles and would encourage everyone else to likewise. In a time pressured world I know it is not easy to find the time to shop around the local shops (hence why supermarkets have flourished over the past 25 years) but I implore you to try and make the change as someone needs to make a stand over the supermarket food prices.
If you've moved here and are finding it a bit tough don'ty worry there are loads of us out there in the same boat. But don't give up as new immigrants are the key to the future development of the nation.
Both my wife and I have experienced discrimination while job hunting here. I can't tell you how many times I've heard "we're looking for someone with local experience". I work in financial services and my wife in the legal profession, generally speaking our international experience is considered an advantage in most countries but not in Oz!! This is shameful. I have now secured a very good job through my own contacts and am due to hire 7 new staff in the next few weeks. I'm planning on giving the Aussies a dose of their own medicine as I'll only be looking for people with international experience. Hopefully this will teach them that anyone can be discriminated against. New migrants are an easy target for discrimination and I think it's time some aussies get to feel what it's like. Incidentally I have hired at least 10 Aussie staff while I lived in London and I always offered the job to the best candidate.
Australia has also become a very expensive country. The grocery prices are outrageous, and the quality of the produce is poor. I think Woolies and Coles are taking the piss out of the nation. I can't understand why fresh fruit is more expensive here than in London, and remember all the fruit in London has to be flown in!!! Virtually all produce is cheaper if bought in a small local shop. Normally big supermarkets can offer cheaper prices to their customers as they benefit from massive savings buying in bulk. But here the opposite seems to be true they actually charge you a premium. I now have boycotted Wollies and Coles and would encourage everyone else to likewise. In a time pressured world I know it is not easy to find the time to shop around the local shops (hence why supermarkets have flourished over the past 25 years) but I implore you to try and make the change as someone needs to make a stand over the supermarket food prices.
If you've moved here and are finding it a bit tough don'ty worry there are loads of us out there in the same boat. But don't give up as new immigrants are the key to the future development of the nation.
I can relate to many statements you make.. I came to the country with lots of dreams. I am an immigrant, came to this country as a student.
I would like to say though - I have not faced any discrimination here. The issue is how do we define discrimination & is there soft discrimination. Subjectivity tells me, although it's frustrating to get knocked back based on none or lack of local experience? that could perhaps not be deemed to be discrimination. I know I am making a bold statement here. The fact of the matter is - I am not Australian born, don't have an accent, I am not white and yet I have not personally been in a situation where I can cross my heart and say I was discriminated against. I can tell you in a heart beat though, that I have about 1 million rejections reason being lack of local experience.
Not for one second am I not appreciating OP's view however, if you decide to vent your anger by discriminating then I suppose you are making a point but at the same time being a part of the problem. I have 8 years of post graduate experience and 1 subject away from an international CA degree - I would hate to get knocked back knowing the intention....
In the times when things are going really tough - candidates are dieing for jobs, and competition is crazy. Perhaps you were just unlucky and wrong place at the wrong time? I am not brown Dr. Phil but I am saying I have had many experience myself and heard which have been 99% positive...
15 years international experience - well I can definitely say it's a bit harsh for someone to rock up and say you have no local experience. I work for a UK bank based internationally & I have Poms, scots, irish etc around me all the time so I hope you can keep my impression about them intact personally!!!
Get over it & be unbiased. I recently recruited a person who cames from South Africa and minimum local experience. I went for the skill & interview performance when I made my decision so hope you can do the same
I second that....
If you've moved here and are finding it a bit tough don'ty worry there are loads of us out there in the same boat. But don't give up as new immigrants are the key to the future development of the nation
Australia definitely is a very expensive place to live. Lack of govt intervention has meant coles and woolworths can go their own merry way and make profits and people suffer. Answer is local markets ...
I hope you both settle down well. Take it easy.
Jul 25th 2009, 10:28 am
#12
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Perth NOR
Posts: 147
Re: It's hard to get a fair go in Oz
Hope you don't mind me jumping in on this thread since I am new here.
I am actually an Aussie living in the UK and have done so for 11 years. We are on our way back home this year.
What you are saying about discrimination against immigrants happens all over and it is not unique to Australia. When I first arrived in the UK I applied for many jobs all lower paid than what I had been getting in Australia and was knocked back despite having experience. I was told out right that they preferred to give jobs to the locals who had the same experience. Although this annoyed me at the time, it makes sense. Each country needs to have some self-preservation. There are obviously some jobs that Australia does not have enough skilled workers for which is why they are allowing immigrants in.
Fortunately for me, we started up our own business here in the UK and have now created jobs for not only ourselves but for others too.
I am actually an Aussie living in the UK and have done so for 11 years. We are on our way back home this year.
What you are saying about discrimination against immigrants happens all over and it is not unique to Australia. When I first arrived in the UK I applied for many jobs all lower paid than what I had been getting in Australia and was knocked back despite having experience. I was told out right that they preferred to give jobs to the locals who had the same experience. Although this annoyed me at the time, it makes sense. Each country needs to have some self-preservation. There are obviously some jobs that Australia does not have enough skilled workers for which is why they are allowing immigrants in.
Fortunately for me, we started up our own business here in the UK and have now created jobs for not only ourselves but for others too.
Jul 25th 2009, 10:50 am
#13
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Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 992
Re: It's hard to get a fair go in Oz
I'm planning on giving the Aussies a dose of their own medicine as I'll only be looking for people with international experience. Hopefully this will teach them that anyone can be discriminated against. New migrants are an easy target for discrimination and I think it's time some aussies get to feel what it's like. Incidentally I have hired at least 10 Aussie staff while I lived in London and I always offered the job to the best candidate.
And when I mean the best candidate its the candidate that has the correct qualifications and will be best suited to fit into the company.
You might think that someone with international experience might be of some advantage but if they do not 'fit in' with other staff or company work ethic then it will be a bit pointless.
also I have assisted my boss with interviews and sometimes candidates have the correct qualifications and experience but fail by being arrogant, cocky or having annoying habits... its down to our discretion and we do debate wether we could work with such a person.
My Girlfriend is an Aussie I would hate to think you would deny her a job just because she is local
I agree with you... But at the moment UK and Ireland are not cheap either.
Not True... My father owns a Refrigerated Haulage business...
80% of fruit is trucked in from South Europe...ie Spain, Italy and France.
There are plenty who are worse off than yourself.. you probably will have a very good chance once a bit of luck falls your way.... It true others who managed to escape from whatever shithole they crawled will always struggle because of who or what they are... but at least their children will probably prosper in future because they were born in Australia.
Last edited by man_called_Horse; Jul 25th 2009 at 10:54 am.
Jul 25th 2009, 11:07 am
#14
Fighting my corner
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 11,948
Re: It's hard to get a fair go in Oz
Zenshin's post hit the nail on the head.