Badge

thanks BP.

Indeed. There are fat people everywhere - but if a small country like Australia can compete at Olympic level then they must be doing something right somewhere. ;-) So I think we have found a new 'law' :
Australia is easy for the sports fans to keep their interest, but may not make you fitter if you aren't already that way inclined.

This is an important 'law' as it is all too easy to look at fat people in Australia and say 'call this a sporting country?".

BM

bondipom

Badge have you ever been to the AIS? Well worth it and an insight into what is required to be a world class athlete. The problem is that it has no relevance to getting ordinary people fit and healthy.

One way of looking at it is the difference in physique from the Bondi Beach type to the stereotype Parramatta westie. It is like a fitness apartheid. If you go down the beach early in the morning (as I believe you used to) the place is a hive of exercise activity.

MikeStanton

Badge,

Having lived in Oz for 12 years, let me put my balanced view to counterbalance your balanced view!

BTW, you can't seriously compare Melbourne with London. Melbourne has half the population and 10% of the attractions. London with New York, Paris etc is one of the world's great cities. Sydney's a closer comparison, at least it's Oz's biggest city. On to your comments...


I also thought it was great when I first arrived - for the next few years.

Oh come off it, Oz is way more racist and sexist than the UK. I read/heard somebody make the comment that Oz is about one generation behind in terms of racial tolerance.

Who are you talking about? The general view is that Oz provides fewer opportunities for professionals. So, for the jobs that exist, the competition is greater and the pay is lower. It's a function of Oz's relatively small population and its 'branch economy' status for multinationals. After all, why do so many Aussies and Kiwis go to UK, Europe and USA to earn money and develop their careers?
Maybe. I think it's more parochial because it is isolated.

Yes, uncrowded shops are good. But, the 'price' is relative lack of choice.

The house comment is an important one. House affordability in Oz is much lower than it used to be. The Sydney house I bought went up 3x - but my salary has 'only' doubled in the same period. Of course, you can buy a big house in a cheap area- but, associated with that is usually the relative lack of jobs or long commute - that's why the houses are cheap! In that sense, Oz is becoming increasingly like UK.

This is not specific to Oz. Most of these clothes are made in China and available all over the world. Perhaps the Oz plus point here is that Oz dress is informal.
Agree the education systems are on a par. Aussies are generally more extrovert than Poms, but that doesn't necessarily equate to better social skills.

Agree.

No question - Aussies are confident at sports. Unless they lose. The rest? They are pretty insecure - wanting immigrants to say 'Oz is wonderful', can't take criticism, etc. If they were self-confident they could take it.
In UK, people generally don't care that much about sport (yes, I know there are the addicted football supporters). Mainly, because it's not seen as important in the great scheme of things.
Only annoying from the gas-guzzling, environment-damaging perspectives. I like the noise of a V8!

bondipom

They can be compared in the extent to that they are very different places.
In general maybe a bit more racist than the poms. I find the type you are on about are the loudest and more conspicuous so the comparison is hard. To be balanced one could hardly say the UK is a bastion of tolerance.
Your favourite topic. It does depend on the career.
I started a thread on Aussie parochialism. In soon got into Mancs vs Scousers, Brummies sound stupid, the welsh shag sheep and the scots and tight bastards.
Partly due to a smaller market and partly due to a diminishing protectionism. Personally I hate shopping but the Mrs says shopping here is not as good as Europe.
We need hard figures to support this one
So why are these the Aussie professonials doing so well around the world.
Maybe in general but the sporting success appears to be curing the affliction that the English are not innocent of. With the umpteenth ashes victory the Aussies could not give a toss. The reaction of some English people winning the rugby world cup was embarassing.
But they can go on about 66 and now RWC 2003.

Larissa

This has turned into a really interesting thread; us wanabees who haven't been before really benefit from reading the positives and negatives.
Blim got into an interesting conversation with his optician, who lived in Perth for a few years. Seems like he enjoyed it, but returned because he had problems with the missus?
Anyway, he emphasised that it's really important to settle in an area with a strong sense of community, and not just a huge house on a faceless estate. I had already thought of this, because I grew up with high privett hedges etc. and prefer living somewhere friendlier. I'd hate to end up in a beautiful house, but cut off from social activities etc.
What do you think of this? I get the impression you need to be more careful in Perth because they have more of the new estates.
Also, what tips have you got for us to make the most out of Aus?
Ta!

MikeStanton

Jobs relating to (eg) house construction were plentiful over the past few years. But, professional jobs are significantly scarcer. For those returning to UK, this scarcity - along with limited career development - is often cited as a factor. Which makes you wonder why DIMIA is so hot on professional, managerial qualifications...

You mean it's not true?


Do you mean Oz housing affordability? Try these for starters:

Houses less affordable than ever

On average, in Dec 2003 houses ~24% less affordable than in Dec 2002:
Record Low Housing Affordability In December Quarter




Some are, some are not. As you would say, 'we need hard figures to support this one'. As a general aside, immigrants tend to work harder than the locals - I'm sure that is as true of Aussies/Kiwis in UK as Poms in Oz/NZ.

And the reaction of the Oz media was like that of a spoilt child.

Badge

thank you ;-)

Indeed, but Sydney and Melbourne have a valued added that no other Euro city can offer. I love both. London and Paris may offer more in real terms, but Aussie cities are small and friendly. I love the fact that there are 3-4 State capitals all inside 2 hrs flight of each other. London is bigger than all of them. But they are much bigger than Manchester, B'Ham, Leeds, N'Ham, Glasgow, indeed any other UK city. See what I mean, take away London and you're not left with much, seriously....bloody hell never thought that before. Go to Leeds, B'Ham, Mac, what do you get, just a different night scene, go to Sydney- public beaches, go to Adelaide, wine valley, Brissy - 1 hr away the Sunshine Coast.

I'm not so sure Mike. I notice a kind of intellectual -ism in the UK. Blokes are less overtly sexist but their actions often speak louder than their voices. Also you don't know what blokes are THINKING. Aussie blokes get it out in the open, and a lot of women, both Aussie and UK prefer their honesty, old fashioned 'being looked after' and the fact that they are at least nice and laid back with it. ie. sexist (joking manner) and laid back vs pretend intellectual who is all mouth and no trousers who is scared of upsetting women - in fact anyone. I've been to dinner parties in the UK and ended up being the only bloke who has a sense of humour, all the other blokes are seeing all can wear the coolest jumpers and grow the coolest beards, and have the biggest MP3 collection AND be cool all at the same time, and they wonder why I get the girls ;-) I've tried explaining it to them...but they don't get it. :-(

True to an extent. I've done OK! Why do Kiwis /Aussies go overseas. Because they can. :-) I don't blame them. Many come back.

Indeed. But there is enough. People who say otherwise seem to want more than they really need.

YOu are lucky that your salary has doubled. Mine went up 1k a year from 1998 to 2004.

But they can, I think this whole thing is overated myself. Do Aussies really look out the window every morning and think 'bugger l'm so insecure - lets find a Pom and let rip'. No, in the main they are a happy nation, and like people from the old country enough to have a gentle banter. It doesn't help that eveyone first visiting their country LOVES it, and when they they themselves go to Europe. they find that their 'easy going' reputation has preceded them. When I came back to the UK, and people asked me where I had been, and I said Aussie, everyone is always so 'wow'. There is a reason for that, and its not just neighbours.

Actually, I think sport is EVERYTHING. In an age of consumer ease, lack of danger or pursuit, its the one thing left where humans can live outside the box and thus achieve self worth, self education, awareness of team spirit, push themselves in testing environments- when you are knackered you make mistakes. The top jobs always go to the best educated from the best unis, who also prove themselves to be a success outside acedemia. eg a first from Oxford who captained the rugby team will get the job over a first from Oxford who lists his hobbies as trainspotting.

Pollyana

Hmm, good one Larissa. Come with an open mind, expect it to be different, and expect to feel - if not actually homesick - then familiarity-sick for the stuff you miss from the UK.
Try and get out as much as you can and join in with as many things as you can, and let the Aussies know that you want to be here, and you're enjoying it. They don't like Poms who whinge about Oz, just like we don't like people coming to the UK and whinging about life there.
I think you've got the right attitude - you'll be fine!