Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Australia
Reload this Page >

i love my country

i love my country

Old Aug 18th 2003, 10:14 am
  #91  
I Know What's Going On!
 
SteveBannister's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2003
Location: On The Outside Looking In!
Posts: 1,499
SteveBannister is a jewel in the roughSteveBannister is a jewel in the roughSteveBannister is a jewel in the roughSteveBannister is a jewel in the roughSteveBannister is a jewel in the rough
Default

Originally posted by pommie bastard
True the wet sods have me contract wages this week more dosh down the drain.
The rubber dollar looks good from this end , pity about your squids.

Bet you're glad that your salary isn't 'productivity relatded'! Pound still looks OK from this end, anything over 1.5 to 1 is OK for me. Don't know hor far your 40c to the £ will go though?
SteveBannister is offline  
Old Aug 18th 2003, 11:14 am
  #92  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: May 2003
Location: brissie
Posts: 101
bryank is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Originally posted by Meridian
I am glad I live in the most ethnically diverse city in the world i.e. London.
That's not the issue or are you a little slow? The issue is the flood of illegal immigrants into the UK.
bryank is offline  
Old Aug 18th 2003, 11:27 am
  #93  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: May 2003
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 334
Jolyn is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

I find this thread very comforting. As an aussie from the south it's always reassuring to see that most of the rednecks (migrants or otherwise) are confining themselves to Queensland or WA. Nothing changes it seems.

Sympathy offered to any liberal, open-minded migrants who move to those states for the sun though. They may not be in the minority there now but they might be a little alarmed at some of the attitudes they come across.

Queensland is no longer exactly disowned by the rest of the country but much of the bad press Queensland used to get was unfortunately deserved...
Jolyn is offline  
Old Aug 18th 2003, 2:12 pm
  #94  
Living in Milwaukee, USA!
 
mcjimbo's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Milwaukee, WI (formally England/Australia)
Posts: 899
mcjimbo will become famous soon enough
Default

Captaincook,

You come across as someones thats had a bad experience and holds a bitter grudge. Maybe you didn't do so well in Australia, maybe your just an anti-social, unfriendly git.... who knows. If you didn't make any genuine friends while you were out there for 5 years, I think you'd probably have to take into account you might be part of the problem.

The Australia you describe is not one that I or others know. Your description of the Australian male sounds like something out of a Richard Attenborough documentary. If we are so basic, I wonder what Richards anology would be of a British soccer thug, renowned the world over. I can't help feeling that you seem to have a superioty complex distancing yourself from us alpha males , you come across as arrogant and pompous. You probably still believe we are a nation of un-educated convicts and should be ruled by the mighty British empire.

I respect and like most of the people i've met in Britain and found them friendly and genuine. However you seem to represent a minority with views from days gone by. You ideals are flawed and I don't think you represent the views of your fellow countrymen.

You seem to of lived 5 shallow years in Australia, and I believe the country is better of without you. Enjoy grey skys, rain, and cold dreary days. Thats all I have to say.

James

Originally posted by captaincook
I formed my opinion by living in Oz for 5 years and now happy to be home in England. I also have an aussie wife and whilst she loves australia she understands that england is where the opportunities exist.

I always laugh when an aussie tells me how they are and yours is a typical example "non-pretencious, honest, hard working and positive people". I guess I am one of the few that has actually seen the true aussies in their own environment as I actually lived and worked and breathed in oz for nearly 5 years not just a short holiday or an action packed gap year. I found ozzies to be full of this type of contradiction quick to tell me how great they are but never living up to the hype. I met few aussies that i would ever class as friends all were mostly shallow, vain, struggling to achieve and would resort to anything to get one up on their fellow man. The oz fair go attitude is just a myth in my view as we witnessed very little of this - it was mostly cut throat and conflicts in every area.

I think Oz has a very powerful class system and compared to the current UK it is far worse. Not only does Oz have the old boy old power family thing which is rife in such a small market place it also has the US system side by side where money buys you class. We found ozzies totally obsessed with money and at work most spent all their days trying to prove how much better off they were then you. We found it very sad.

Since we have been back in the UK that sense of conflict we found everywhere in Oz just does'nt exist here. As you say people are funny here but happy to look outwardly at different opportunities like moving overseas. We have spoken to employers here that are happy we have been working overseas whereas in Oz any foreigners are treated as second class citizens and overseas experience is treated with contempt unless of course you are an ozzie then thats different.

Oz is a white ozzie alpha male country and needs to change to be accepted by the rest of the world as anything other than a holiday destination. Its not multi cultural because it demands its migrants to adopt white ozzie alpha male attitudes and opinions and there is little tolerance for diversity. Look at all the greeks in Melbourne and Darwin, the biggest group of migrants, they are isolated in their communities and most ozzies are happy with that. Don't mix with the foreigners, and thats the attitiude when you travel - all oz backpackers tend to live in the same area packed into little houses, drink at ozzie pubs and seek out ozzie food. London is full of ozzie pubs now and the walkabout chain has spread throughout the country to accomodate all the ozzie backpackers desire not to integrate.

I can understand why you are happier in Oz because you are an ozzie but don't go presuming that despite what English people may say out of politeness and respect for you that they would also prefer to live in your country.

Last edited by mcjimbo; Aug 18th 2003 at 5:58 pm.
mcjimbo is offline  
Old Aug 18th 2003, 5:11 pm
  #95  
I'm lovin' it
 
chippy's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,525
chippy is a name known to allchippy is a name known to allchippy is a name known to allchippy is a name known to allchippy is a name known to allchippy is a name known to allchippy is a name known to allchippy is a name known to allchippy is a name known to allchippy is a name known to allchippy is a name known to all
Default

Originally posted by Florida_03
So the Question was:

"What is the REAL effect of per capita growth"?

I questioned it and you called it bollox...so answer please.
You are an impatient bugger aren't you?
Right. I've done my days work (you should try it sometime), so I'll look at this again.
I normally engage in various forms of banter on this site (mainly a British thing that I doubt you'll really understand), but since you have asked me a serious question I will indulge you.

I don't intend to write a thesis on the subject (nor could I), I will merely state my current thinking on the matter.

GDP is a measure of a standard of production and wealth. If it goes up it is generally taken that the wealth of a nation is increasing.
As I understand it, it is an accounting system which measures monies that are generated by any means,(ie not just industrial production)whether they be 'good' or 'bad'. By this I mean that, for example, goods and services within a particular country like say legal fees generate an income to that country and thereby increase the GDP tally. Those legal fees could be for divorces, litigations, or any other superficial activity.
The point is GDP only counts money in. If a country spends billions on pollution control then that is money in, and GDP goes up.

So in short the overall benefits of an increase in GDP may not equate to a better quality of living for all, since it only measures things in monetry terms irrespective of how that money has been generated. In conclusion, this could be good for many but not for all, and subsequently promote a breakdown in social cohesion.

Although I believe in equality and a fair go for one and all, the truth is I only really focus my attention on the betterment of life for my own family. Now morally this may not be the best way to go (fellow man and all that), but show me someone different....You Florida?

Feel free to give me a lesson on the intricacies of GDP, and social science with a bit of poetry thrown in. I would'nt be surprised if you don't (or can't) answer.
chippy is offline  
Old Aug 18th 2003, 5:19 pm
  #96  
I'm lovin' it
 
chippy's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,525
chippy is a name known to allchippy is a name known to allchippy is a name known to allchippy is a name known to allchippy is a name known to allchippy is a name known to allchippy is a name known to allchippy is a name known to allchippy is a name known to allchippy is a name known to allchippy is a name known to all
Default

Originally posted by Florida_03
Now...abuse? You're raving...

"You're welcome to it..."

Comprehension = you're welcome to Australia

"You're bollox will be the end of it".

Comprehension = more of your ilk immigrating and the end of Australia as I once knew it will be complete.

Insulted? By what?
If you post ambiguous comments, you must expect alternative interpretations.
chippy is offline  
Old Aug 18th 2003, 5:23 pm
  #97  
Badge
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Oz is a white ozzie alpha male country and needs to change to be accepted by the [/QUOTE]

well I quite like the white ozzie alpha culture...!!!!!!! the footie etc. As a rugby lover it suits me. Of course if you are a delicate sensitive Euro type then I can see it being disappointing!

its the white *Brit* alpha culture I personally don't like!!!!! eg "I'm a bit of a bloke" geezer, soccer mentality. Interesting how there is hardly any violence or nasty backchat in aussie at their sporting events!! might have something to do wth the fact that the violence is on the pitch!!??

each to his own, eh!!!


badgers

Last edited by badgersmount; Aug 18th 2003 at 5:29 pm.
 
Old Aug 18th 2003, 5:31 pm
  #98  
Don
Banned
 
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,613
Don is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Originally posted by chippy
You are an impatient bugger aren't you?
Right. I've done my days work (you should try it sometime), so I'll look at this again.
I normally engage in various forms of banter on this site (mainly a British thing that I doubt you'll really understand), but since you have asked me a serious question I will indulge you.

I don't intend to write a thesis on the subject (nor could I), I will merely state my current thinking on the matter.

GDP is a measure of a standard of production and wealth. If it goes up it is generally taken that the wealth of a nation is increasing.
As I understand it, it is an accounting system which measures monies that are generated by any means,(ie not just industrial production)whether they be 'good' or 'bad'. By this I mean that, for example, goods and services within a particular country like say legal fees generate an income to that country and thereby increase the GDP tally. Those legal fees could be for divorces, litigations, or any other superficial activity.
The point is GDP only counts money in. If a country spends billions on pollution control then that is money in, and GDP goes up.

So in short the overall benefits of an increase in GDP may not equate to a better quality of living for all, since it only measures things in monetry terms irrespective of how that money has been generated. In conclusion, this could be good for many but not for all, and subsequently promote a breakdown in social cohesion.

Although I believe in equality and a fair go for one and all, the truth is I only really focus my attention on the betterment of life for my own family. Now morally this may not be the best way to go (fellow man and all that), but show me someone different....You Florida?

Feel free to give me a lesson on the intricacies of GDP, and social science with a bit of poetry thrown in. I would'nt be surprised if you don't (or can't) answer.
Good post Chippy. I would add that whilst there may be some inequality of distribution of the effects of wealth, there is inevitably a trickle down effect which means everybody close to wealth-generation gets richer. So higher GDP per capita benefits all.

Of course, most dole-bludgers just don't like getting out of bed in the morning.
Don is offline  
Old Aug 18th 2003, 6:22 pm
  #99  
I'm lovin' it
 
chippy's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,525
chippy is a name known to allchippy is a name known to allchippy is a name known to allchippy is a name known to allchippy is a name known to allchippy is a name known to allchippy is a name known to allchippy is a name known to allchippy is a name known to allchippy is a name known to allchippy is a name known to all
Default

Originally posted by pleasancefamily
Good post Chippy. I would add that whilst there may be some inequality of distribution of the effects of wealth, there is inevitably a trickle down effect which means everybody close to wealth-generation gets richer. So higher GDP per capita benefits all.

Of course, most dole-bludgers just don't like getting out of bed in the morning.
And social cohesion...the divide between the haves and the have nots and all that implies??
chippy is offline  
Old Aug 18th 2003, 10:01 pm
  #100  
Now in Tauranga
 
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 110
ratliffe is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Originally posted by nosuchluck
Ratliffe!
well said, i totally agree with what you are saying well done for having the balls to say it!
i see that immigrants are even getting taxi's now just in case they miss their stop on the coaches! what a joke!
yes the 'odd one or two' cases are sad but its all the others and there are loads in this country, it would be fair enough if the immigrants had to go through the emigration process first, like we had to but they don't, 'Great Britain, should be renamed 'Soft Britain'!
its not only the immigrants but the dole blodgers too! my hubby works really hard 6 sometimes 7 days a week, and his tax ran out, he didn't have the time to go to re-tax it so it was left for a couple of days yet he was fined £31 yet you read in the local paper night after night, 'no tax, no insurance, no mot, speeding etc, conditional discharge!' im not saying for one minute he shouldn't have been find but it does seem the harder you work in this country the worse off you are!
sorry for venting but Great Britain we are no longer
rach
Thankyou Rach
it seems this post has totally gone off the subject with the others.
I give it ten years untill the U.K will be a third world country or one that is run by the yanks, skilled workers no longer required'
ratliffe is offline  
Old Aug 18th 2003, 10:12 pm
  #101  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,185
Wilf is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Originally posted by captaincook
I formed my opinion by living in Oz for 5 years and now happy to be home in England. I also have an aussie wife and whilst she loves australia she understands that england is where the opportunities exist.

I always laugh when an aussie tells me how they are and yours is a typical example "non-pretencious, honest, hard working and positive people". I guess I am one of the few that has actually seen the true aussies in their own environment as I actually lived and worked and breathed in oz for nearly 5 years not just a short holiday or an action packed gap year. I found ozzies to be full of this type of contradiction quick to tell me how great they are but never living up to the hype. I met few aussies that i would ever class as friends all were mostly shallow, vain, struggling to achieve and would resort to anything to get one up on their fellow man. The oz fair go attitude is just a myth in my view as we witnessed very little of this - it was mostly cut throat and conflicts in every area.

I think Oz has a very powerful class system and compared to the current UK it is far worse. Not only does Oz have the old boy old power family thing which is rife in such a small market place it also has the US system side by side where money buys you class. We found ozzies totally obsessed with money and at work most spent all their days trying to prove how much better off they were then you. We found it very sad.

Since we have been back in the UK that sense of conflict we found everywhere in Oz just does'nt exist here. As you say people are funny here but happy to look outwardly at different opportunities like moving overseas. We have spoken to employers here that are happy we have been working overseas whereas in Oz any foreigners are treated as second class citizens and overseas experience is treated with contempt unless of course you are an ozzie then thats different.

Oz is a white ozzie alpha male country and needs to change to be accepted by the rest of the world as anything other than a holiday destination. Its not multi cultural because it demands its migrants to adopt white ozzie alpha male attitudes and opinions and there is little tolerance for diversity. Look at all the greeks in Melbourne and Darwin, the biggest group of migrants, they are isolated in their communities and most ozzies are happy with that. Don't mix with the foreigners, and thats the attitiude when you travel - all oz backpackers tend to live in the same area packed into little houses, drink at ozzie pubs and seek out ozzie food. London is full of ozzie pubs now and the walkabout chain has spread throughout the country to accomodate all the ozzie backpackers desire not to integrate.

I can understand why you are happier in Oz because you are an ozzie but don't go presuming that despite what English people may say out of politeness and respect for you that they would also prefer to live in your country.


The only thing I think is a shame about your post here is that I do not think that many here will believe it.

Your points regarding the ozzie class system, greed, snobbiness, confrontational approach, and lack of tolerance for others are spot on. I always wonder why people here do not think "Why do they have this word Poms, instead of just Brits or something that we use ourselves, when all we call them is Ozzies that they, themselves, use?", and see that as just one very well known (but small fry, compared to some of the bull you have to put up with here) example of the chip on the shoulder attitude when it comes to poms and all foreigners. I have learnt to use the word pom just to take it away from them and I have also had to become quite confrontational myself over here through taking on piss taking prats in Oz, even though I calm down when I go back to England for a holiday.

I can hear the poms on this forum already saying "I like a ribbing", "You have to just get on with them", etc, etc, but they will learn what that means in reality.

The trouble with a lot of Ozzies is that they do not know how to banter and their idea of humour is often just unfunny and offensive. As a new immo pom, the people on this forum will start by laughing it off and jump through hoops and fetch sticks to please their new "hosts". In the end, their pride will kick in and they will get sick of it.

I am always amazed that some people cannot cope with the rubbish I dish out sometimes and yet they think they will enjoy it in Oz, a land where being unkind (in English terms) is daily "banter" and you are a "whinger" for complaining about anything.

My advice to anyone who has not yet signed on the dotted line and gone too far to change your mind, read this bloke's post and take it in. Do not underestimate what he says and think how you would enjoy the place he describes.
Wilf is offline  
Old Aug 18th 2003, 10:50 pm
  #102  
Proudly Deplorable
 
Amazulu's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2003
Location: Alloha snack bar
Posts: 24,246
Amazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Originally posted by Wilf
The only thing I think is a shame about your post here is that I do not think that many here will believe it.

Your points regarding the ozzie class system, greed, snobbiness, confrontational approach, and lack of tolerance for others are spot on. I always wonder why people here do not think "Why do they have this word Poms, instead of just Brits or something that we use ourselves, when all we call them is Ozzies that they, themselves, use?", and see that as just one very well known (but small fry, compared to some of the bull you have to put up with here) example of the chip on the shoulder attitude when it comes to poms and all foreigners. I have learnt to use the word pom just to take it away from them and I have also had to become quite confrontational myself over here through taking on piss taking prats in Oz, even though I calm down when I go back to England for a holiday.

I can hear the poms on this forum already saying "I like a ribbing", "You have to just get on with them", etc, etc, but they will learn what that means in reality.

The trouble with a lot of Ozzies is that they do not know how to banter and their idea of humour is often just unfunny and offensive. As a new immo pom, the people on this forum will start by laughing it off and jump through hoops and fetch sticks to please their new "hosts". In the end, their pride will kick in and they will get sick of it.

I am always amazed that some people cannot cope with the rubbish I dish out sometimes and yet they think they will enjoy it in Oz, a land where being unkind (in English terms) is daily "banter" and you are a "whinger" for complaining about anything.

My advice to anyone who has not yet signed on the dotted line and gone too far to change your mind, read this bloke's post and take it in. Do not underestimate what he says and think how you would enjoy the place he describes.
Good post Wilf but I found that the way to deal with Aussies who try to put you down or get one over on you was to give it back with interest. If they are scathing, be more scathing. If they get vicious, be more vicious back. I found that they would either back off or appreciate your stand. The put down is a big part of the Aussie makeup, I say give it back with bells & whistles.
Amazulu is offline  
Old Aug 18th 2003, 11:02 pm
  #103  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,185
Wilf is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Originally posted by Amazulu
Good post Wilf but I found that the way to deal with Aussies who try to put you down or get one over on you was to give it back with interest. If they are scathing, be more scathing. If they get vicious, be more vicious back. I found that they would either back off or appreciate your stand. The put down is a big part of the Aussie makeup, I say give it back with bells & whistles.

I agree with you 100%. I do it, you do it, but it takes a certain personality to be able to do it without it getting you down. I think people who grow up in a sort of rough and ready environment would cope OK, but there are a lot of people on the forum here who strike me as too "nice" to be able to dish out insults and stand up for themselves.

A lot of the time, there is nothing "good natured" about Ozzie bull that you get as an Immo and I know that most people dislike confrontation. To some extent we all dislike confrontation, but it upsets some a lot more than others and I doubt that many people on this forum will enjoy the Ozzie bull as much as they say they will (their bravado is OK, but the reality may be hard for them to enjoy). The best bet for some people will be to take whatever they are dished out and smile, just to avoid the confrontation, but that will not do much for their self respect.
Wilf is offline  
Old Aug 19th 2003, 12:08 am
  #104  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 100
megawho is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Originally posted by ratliffe
I give it ten years untill the U.K will be a third world country...

The idiocy of that remark is really quite amazing. Do you stay up all night thinking of such inane things to say, or does it come naturally to you?
megawho is offline  
Old Aug 19th 2003, 12:21 am
  #105  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,185
Wilf is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Originally posted by ratliffe
Thankyou Rach
it seems this post has totally gone off the subject with the others.
I give it ten years untill the U.K will be a third world country or one that is run by the yanks, skilled workers no longer required'

I have read some odd stuff on this forum written to justify the move to Oz/NZ to oneself, but this one gets the oscar for me. You had better tell all the kiwis and ozzies passing you in the opposite direction on their way to the UK then.

I think that in 10 years the UK will be run by aliens who talk martian through a pipe coming out the top of their head and I am sure you will be their leader. Beam you up ratty?
Wilf is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.