Jimbo9

Is there any way of telling how good (for the want of a better word) individual schools are in Sydney? (particularly in southern suburbs). I have 2 daughters who will be 9 & 13 when we move and I dont know whether to look for a selective school or a private school (if i can afford it). I know the UK school league tables have their critics - but they would certainly help me narrow my search if there is an Oz equivalent. Also does anyone have any experience of their kids sitting the Educational test for the selective schools?

MikeStanton

This is a sensitive subject in Oz Have a look at:
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/...?from=storyrhs

Generally, the Oz league tables (published in newspapers) show how well schools have performed in public exams, eg the HSC (similar to A levels) - but they don't show other aspects (eg what facilities are available).

One point worth making is that the Oz system is different from UK. The general view is that overall they are of a similar standard (and this is supported by OECD research). However, please don't compare on a year-by-year basis (ie what students learn in a particular school year in the UK, they may learn before or afterwards in Oz)

Still, the following 2002 ranking gives an idea of school performance. "James Ruse" always does well:
http://www.newcollege.com.au/sch_info/topschools.pdf

mike7

Mike,

We are relocating to Sydney from Scotland arriving on the 18th April 2004.

Schools are a big issue and will decide where we stay. We have two daughters aged 8 & 10 who are both very able. We are looking at the Hills District in particular Castle Hill, Cherrybrook or Bella Vista.......can you give any advice on these areas ?.

Also, how do you find the Australian Education system ?. I have heard differeing reports good and bad.

Any help ypou can give would be appreciated.


Regards

Michael

NickyC

Hmmm. Selective schools are not easy to get into. The competition is fierce and there are a raft of private crammers that cater for ambitious parents anxious to get their kids in.

My younger son is pretty bright but he failed to get in. Most of the kids that did make it would probably have attended a coaching college a couple of times a week and been very familiar with the exam style. The government now allows anyone access to old exam papers - in an attempt to give everyone the same advantages as the private coaching schools.

The bulk of the kids at my nearest selective school are of Asian background - mainly because they're the only kids who are prepared to study all hours, and whose parents encourage them to do so. Australian parents believe there's more to life for 11-year-olds than constant study so they tend not to compete to the same degree.

Only sure way to get decent info on local schools is to visit and talk to as many people as possible. Catholic schools are not expensive and overall are perceived to have better discipline than the state schools - that's if you can take the enforced religion!

Jimbo9

Thanks Mike - Ive found a couple on the list that look promising - it seems the selective schools are up there with the private schools. I can see a lot of trips/interviews and exams ahead - The things we do for our kids - I hope they remember when i'm old and gray (er) !!

Sandra

I spent over a year checking out schools - emails and conversations prior to moving with my family to Sydney. The choices are varied and can seem confusing but focus on your child first, by that I mean what does your child enjoy in terms of school not you. I have too very different children in terms of school needs and that proved difficult. I was considering private for one and public for the other. You can email the schools and chat about your requirements (if they did not talk back to me I did not feel they had my childs interests at heart)

We finally choose government schools, with streamed classes for the bright child, but equal support for the less academic. The private schools do not necessarily offer what is best for individual children, though I hear good things about the Catholic schools.

I have an academically very bright child but agree with what nickyc says about the crammers and private coaching esp amongst the asian community - it is high pressure. We did not have the choice with selective when we first came over because of being on a 457 temp, later when we swopped to PR, my son was settled in school and did not want to try for the exam because it would have meant another move. He is in the majority of top streams for all his subjects and being pushed (he is the youngest in his year). My daughter thinks school is part of a social scene one goes to (not unintelligent just not interested). But the primary she is in do not let her fall behind and we get excellent support etc.

After the horrors we had at times in the UK....we know as parents we can change and find the right schools for our children..Sydney is the same and we would all love the first choice to be the best....but you can move schools after being here a while and swop in and out, as long as it is best for the child, they do adapt.

Sorry for sounding preachy and telling you what you know!

St Ives (Upper North Shore) is a good public high and even better is Killara (Upper North Shore). If coming that direction.

Cheers Sandra

NickyC

Mike's link to the school list was actually at one of the 'coaching colleges' websites. Take a look at
http://www.newcollege.com.au/main_pnc.asp?sf=2
to see what the average Year 5 child is expected to do to get a place at a selective high school. And that's in addition to normal school!

Admittedly some seriously bright kids can and will get in under their own steam - but a lot of them will be doing all this stuff so you have to allow for it

karen p

Is there an equivalent list like this for Queensland?

I would be very interested to see it if you know where
I can find it.

Thanks Karen

mike7

Sandra,

You mentioned that you were initially on a 457 visa - did this affect your school choices ?. I have the same visa and know about the fee payment but was under the impression that as long as you were in the catchment area your child gained access to the public school...i.e. the same as the UK nice areas generally have nice schools.

Regards

Michael

jandjuk

How to tell a good school?

Stand outside the gate and count how many 4*4's there are dropping the kids off.....

(sorry coudn't resist with a subject line like that!)

now... back to the useful posts....

mike7

Surprising........that an eductaed person could not appreciate the importance of schooling especially when parties are moving their families across the world.

I would guess that you don't have children as one of the most important aspects of any move is to ensure that your children's education is maintained or indeed improved.

sunny_samantha

I just wanted to add that as a teacher in the U.K I firmly believe that League Tables are very important as an indication of a successful school, and as a Year 6 teacher I know all about exams! However I also think that going into a school and visiting it to see how it operates (on a 'normal' school day) combined with meeting a member of staff and talking about concerns you have that are specific to your child/children is very valuable e.g.
special needs policy,
gifted and talented policy,
facilities for different subjects,
do specialist teachers teach certain subjects?,
what is the procedure if you suspect your child is being bullied?
what happens if your child shows a particular talent in one subject area?
etc...I could go on forever...
In other words as well as researching the 'best school', also look for a school that 'feels right' for your individual child. I know that when my son is old enough I want more for him than simply the most academic school in the area as I've also seen the negative sides of pushing children too far to achieve high results for a school!
Hope this is of interest!
Susan

dotty

Mike, Janduks comment ironically has a lot of truth in it. The snob factor in OZ is so great that the 4WD is known as a Toorak Taxi. Toorak being one of Austalias wealthies suburbs. The overwhelming majority of 4WD's are driven by women as vehicles to get the kids to school in. Forget blokes in big rigs on beaches, most who genuinly do that keep a right old bomb to wreck with salt and sand not the precious 4WD.

Snobbery here is rife in Private schools. Not just in Sydney either. The really top class schools are going to be a battle to get into, money talks, big money, connections help too. Old school my boy, old Sydney school or old Melbourne school.

The middle of the road private schools often find a space, which probably explains why the class sizes are the same or bigger than State schools.

Catholic schools are sadly often used by those who cant afford Private but want the status symbol. Funny thing is, they have a catchment of a very low socio- economic group even recently admitted by the Catholic Church. So I'd be using them if I was a Catholic not for some fake snob act.

MikeStanton

I can't comment on possible restrictions with 457 visas, but what you say about having access to the public school in your catchment area is certainly correct (well, in NSW anyway!)

MikeStanton

Mike, unfortunately, I don't know how anything about the schools in this area, cos we live in Manly.

Private schools that we looked at - and seemed good, but expensive, included schools on the North Shore (SCEGGS, Queenwood for Girls), and public schools including Manly West (primary school), Mackellar Girls (last 2 near Manly on Northern Beaches)